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2016-17 Kings Roster Part 2

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LaDue assigned to Ontario, keep him playing during this bye week, since Kings first game after break is home against Phoenix easy call up right before then.
 
The really messed up part is all the injuries. Someone posted that we have used so few forwards this season; well, who can we call up? Everyone keeps getting hurt at all levels of the org!
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
The really messed up part is all the injuries. Someone posted that we have used so few forwards this season; well, who can we call up? Everyone keeps getting hurt at all levels of the org!
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I keep pretty accurate roster on 1st page of this thread, injuries are real for both team.
 
is it a crappy draft year like how 2007 was?

to me a ''crappy draft year'' means scouts are having a hard time evaluating players properly

like how JVR, Turris, and Gagner were drafted ahead of Voracek, Couture, and Pacioretty

sexy names like Hamill & Esposito ended up being busts

it was the year where we went off the board cause it was such a weak draft and picked Hickey because the D was so weak

the same draft that had McDonagh, Shattenkirk, and Subban

it was also a draft that included: Simmonds, Killorn, Martinez, J. Benn, Muzzin, Maroon, Hagelin, and Bonino

weak draft my ass
 
KingPuckChoo said:
is it a crappy draft year like how 2007 was?

to me a ''crappy draft year'' means scouts are having a hard time evaluating players properly

like how JVR, Turris, and Gagner were drafted ahead of Voracek, Couture, and Pacioretty

sexy names like Hamill & Esposito ended up being busts

it was the year where we went off the board cause it was such a weak draft and picked Hickey because the D was so weak

the same draft that had McDonagh, Shattenkirk, and Subban

it was also a draft that included: Simmonds, Killorn, Martinez, J. Benn, Muzzin, Maroon, Hagelin, and Bonino

weak draft my ass
Click to expand...

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1999e.html
 
KingPuckChoo said:
is it a crappy draft year like how 2007 was?

to me a ''crappy draft year'' means scouts are having a hard time evaluating players properly

like how JVR, Turris, and Gagner were drafted ahead of Voracek, Couture, and Pacioretty

sexy names like Hamill & Esposito ended up being busts

it was the year where we went off the board cause it was such a weak draft and picked Hickey because the D was so weak

the same draft that had McDonagh, Shattenkirk, and Subban

it was also a draft that included: Simmonds, Killorn, Martinez, J. Benn, Muzzin, Maroon, Hagelin, and Bonino

weak draft my ass
Click to expand...

Most of the names you mentioned like Couture and Voracek were highly touted in their draft years, but the inept Kings scouts felt like they were smarter than everyone else in the room with that Hickey selection. Yet they spout BS that they don't draft for need...

Like johnjm22 pointed out, this is more like the 1999 draft class. There really aren't any standouts this year. Maybe some prospective future NHLers find there way in the second or later rounds, but a deep draft class this is not.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Most of the names you mentioned like Couture and Voracek were highly touted in their draft years, but the inept Kings scouts felt like they were smarter than everyone else in the room with that Hickey selection. Yet they spout BS that they don't draft for need...

Like johnjm22 pointed out, this is more like the 1999 draft class. There really aren't any standouts this year. Maybe some prospective future NHLers find there way in the second or later rounds, but a deep draft class this is not.
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Yep, those guys are totally inept. :shakehead
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
When they've only selected two top six forwards in 11 drafts, yes, yes they are. Can you name the last pick this team drafted that's made his mark in the NHL?
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There are several flaws with this argument (that the Kings have inept scouts) :

1) Top 6 forwards is a bad metric to measure scouts performance if that is the only metric you are using since the team is comprised of Bottom 6 forwards, defensemen, and goalies as well. Kings have been built from the back end out, so DL put a higher priority on drafting D, which is not a reflection of scouts ineptitude, rather institutional direction.
2) The scouts do not control trades, i.e. not having high draft picks to work with
3) Name one team, Just one, that has drafted more players in rounds 3 or later that have as many NHL games played as the Kings draft picks in those rounds over the last 11 years.


Scouts should be measured on what they accomplish with the picks and position they are given. Does anyone think that Edmonton had elite scouting to pick Hall, McDavid, RNH, Draisaitl? By your metric, they drafted 4 Top-6 forwards. Yippee...

BTW, I count 4 top-6 forwards Kings have drafted. Schenn, Simmonds, Toffoli, Pearson.
 
driller1 said:
There are several flaws with this argument (that the Kings have inept scouts) :

1) Top 6 forwards is a bad metric to measure scouts performance if that is the only metric you are using since the team is comprised of Bottom 6 forwards, defensemen, and goalies as well. Kings have been built from the back end out, so DL put a higher priority on drafting D, which is not a reflection of scouts ineptitude, rather institutional direction.
2) The scouts do not control trades, i.e. not having high draft picks to work with
3) Name one team, Just one, that has drafted more players in rounds 3 or later that have as many NHL games played as the Kings draft picks in those rounds over the last 11 years.


Scouts should be measured on what they accomplish with the picks and position they are given. Does anyone think that Edmonton had elite scouting to pick Hall, McDavid, RNH, Draisaitl? By your metric, they drafted 4 Top-6 forwards. Yippee...

BTW, I count 4 top-6 forwards Kings have drafted. Schenn, Simmonds, Toffoli, Pearson.
Click to expand...

BOOM.jpeg

(Is what it is, Ziggy)
 
We could do A LOT better at scouting, but there are still teams in the league that are worse off than us right now. I wish management would look more towards Scandinavian and European countries for youth, it seems like Russians never really work out for us (Porky not committed to coming over, Voynov debacle, Dergachyov most likely staying over there).

Despite our barren cupboard, there are still some prospects to be excited about in Brodzinski, LaDue, Clague, Cernak, Kempe, and especially Amadio. I was encouraged to hear DL say that he's probably not going to make a trade involving draft picks. It makes sense after he was burned with the Sekera and Lucic trades. The **** luck we've had after our 2nd Cup is what really ruined us, not the drafting. If we still had a healthy Richards and a non-exhiled Voynov, this team would still be a contender. Chicago is still doing very well, I like to imagine we would be too if it wasn't for those unusual circumstances.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
When they've only selected two top six forwards in 11 drafts, yes, yes they are. Can you name the last pick this team drafted that's made his mark in the NHL?
Click to expand...

I don't' feel like I need to go through this whole song and dance with you yet again for the third time in a couple of months.

We do it, I show you how silly it is to go nuts on the scouts, you begrudgingly agree, then several months later you make comments again about how bad our scouting/drafting is. The circle of life.
 
driller1 said:
There are several flaws with this argument (that the Kings have inept scouts) :

1) Top 6 forwards is a bad metric to measure scouts performance if that is the only metric you are using since the team is comprised of Bottom 6 forwards, defensemen, and goalies as well. Kings have been built from the back end out, so DL put a higher priority on drafting D, which is not a reflection of scouts ineptitude, rather institutional direction.
2) The scouts do not control trades, i.e. not having high draft picks to work with
3) Name one team, Just one, that has drafted more players in rounds 3 or later that have as many NHL games played as the Kings draft picks in those rounds over the last 11 years.


Scouts should be measured on what they accomplish with the picks and position they are given. Does anyone think that Edmonton had elite scouting to pick Hall, McDavid, RNH, Draisaitl? By your metric, they drafted 4 Top-6 forwards. Yippee...

BTW, I count 4 top-6 forwards Kings have drafted. Schenn, Simmonds, Toffoli, Pearson.
Click to expand...

Remember the last goalie prospect the team drafted that appeared in any NHL games? Look at how barren they are in any legit prospects in net and up front. This is why Lombardi has to keep diving into the dumpster to sign a bunch of cast offs. They barely have any forwards or goalies who are being developed into players who can play integral roles. Oh but they have great "character."

Name a team that's drafted better in the 3rd round or later? How about the Lightning? Or Ducks? Or Hawks? Or Wings? Or Blues? Go ahead and cherry pick with how far back you want to go with the 3rd round or later picks.

How about those wasted second rounders like Christopher Gibson? Their last second round selection worth a damn was Toffoli, and that was seven drafts ago. Sorry, but I'm not buying into this false hope you guys are clinging onto. Even Lombardi and his scouts have admitted that they have to restore the cupboard. They know it's barren, but some of you are too afraid to admit that.

I guess it's okay for them to say it but some of you can't take that criticism from other posters. C'mon guys, stop burying your heads in the sand.

Their last decent draft was 2012. After that it's been a lot of misses, long shots, with a few sprinkles of hope that there's some NHL talent in there somewhere.
 
2012 wasn't a bad year. 6 picks, rounds 1, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7. 3 out of the 6 have played NHL games (Tanner Pearson, Colin Miller, Paul LaDue) and 1 we'll never know (Porky) if he could have.
 
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PJ Kings Hockey said:
2012 wasn't a bad year. 6 picks, rounds 1, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7. 3 out of the 6 have played NHL games (Tanner Pearson, Colin Miller, Paul LaDue) and 1 we'll never know (Porky) if he could have.
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Yep, and that's another reason why this team hardly has any assets now. Not only is it because of the trades of 1st round picks, and moving guys like Miller, Zykov, McKeown, losing Berube and Hickey to waivers, but then you add that their drafts since then have had more misses than hits, and then you realize why a team like Ontario has to be overloaded with journeymen.

There's hardly anyone from juniors coming up the ranks. I have hope for Brodzinski and possibly Auger to come out of the 2013 draft but we don't know if they'll be NHL regulars or when we should expect their arrival.

From 2014 the two most promising names are Kempe and Amadio, with Watson being another one to look out for, but that's TBD. Not sure how Lintuniemi is coming along, but the fact that he was in the ECHL doesn't bode well, especially if he struggled at that level and also isn't a regular in Ontario.

Still too early to judge the 2015 and 2016 guys, but Cernak still has to find his offensive game in the OHL. If he cements himself as a defensive dman that's fine too, but hopefully he turns into an NHL dman. Clague is probably the most talented dman in the pipeline and Moverare is probably the smartest (and he's put up respectable numbers as well).

They have no prospects in net, some good ones on the blueline, and barely anything up front. They need to dig deep and find a Panarin or another Muzzin or Jones. Those were the last two free agent prospects this team signed that they developed into legit NHLers.

I hope this makes it clear as to why I stand by my statement that this group of scouts has struggled to give the coach and management any options to bring up young forwards into the lineup. Saying they've even been mediocre at that is simply sugarcoating an inherent problem.
 
Omni Owl said:
We could do A LOT better at scouting, but there are still teams in the league that are worse off than us right now.
Click to expand...

I know you followed up this statement with more perspective about the situation, but this statement is pretty silly. Read my remarks below about how the Kings do on average with their drafting.

Ziggy Stardust said:
Remember the last goalie prospect the team drafted that appeared in any NHL games? Look at how barren they are in any legit prospects in net and up front. This is why Lombardi has to keep diving into the dumpster to sign a bunch of cast offs. They barely have any forwards or goalies who are being developed into players who can play integral roles. Oh but they have great "character."

Name a team that's drafted better in the 3rd round or later? How about the Lightning? Or Ducks? Or Hawks? Or Wings? Or Blues? Go ahead and cherry pick with how far back you want to go with the 3rd round or later picks.

How about those wasted second rounders like Christopher Gibson? Their last second round selection worth a damn was Toffoli, and that was seven drafts ago. Sorry, but I'm not buying into this false hope you guys are clinging onto. Even Lombardi and his scouts have admitted that they have to restore the cupboard. They know it's barren, but some of you are too afraid to admit that.

I guess it's okay for them to say it but some of you can't take that criticism from other posters. C'mon guys, stop burying your heads in the sand.

Their last decent draft was 2012. After that it's been a lot of misses, long shots, with a few sprinkles of hope that there's some NHL talent in there somewhere.
Click to expand...

This is pretty ridiculous. The cupboard is pretty bare due to a combination of issues, not just, what you call "inept" drafting. We'll go through each draft year since 2007, which is when Lombardi got rid of the DT scouts. Keep in mind the adage is it's considered a good draft if you can land 2 NHL players (NOT the unreasonable top 6 threshold you're demanding

I am going to compare the number of games played in their career, since we can argue till the cows come home whether or not someone is actually an NHL player, and I'm not going to get into a deep analysis of every player:
2007
4 current NHL players - Thomas Hickey, Wayne Simmonds, Alec Martinez, Dwight King. The fewest among those in games played is Thomas Hickey is 315. Only 26 other players in the ENTIRE draft class have more games. That's right; of the 30 players in the league from 2007 who have played at least 300 games, the Kings drafted four of them. There was also Oscar Moller who Lombardi admitted was rushed

2008
1 current NHL player and 1 deported NHL player, Doughty and Voynov. Loktionov also made it as a journeyman for a couple seasons. Ultimately, I don't think you should be calling the scouts inept for failing to identify that a player would commit spousal abuse 6 years later. Voynov played 190 games. From that draft, only 43 players in the league have played at least 190 games. So while the Kings have two players from the draft carving out that much of an NHL career, the rest of the league averages a bit over one. Don't forget Teubert was part of a package to land Dustin Penner, who helped the Kings win a cup.

2009
6 active NHL players, 1 player who played in a few games this season and demoted to the AHL. Clifford, Nolan, and Dowd are all on the Kings. Schenn was traded for Richards (and we won't get into how that turned out). Deslauriers was traded for McNabb. Berube was claimed off waivers. Vey played four games in Calgary this season before being demoted to the AHL. Berube played the least with 14 games in his career, followed by Dowd at 53. Only 4 goalies from that draft have played more; 21 goalies were drafted total. 70 players in that draft have 53 or more games; an average of slightly over two per team.

2010
3 out of the 5 players they drafted are currently in the NHL: Forbort, Toffoli, and Gravel. Weal also played a game in the NHL this season before being demoted to the AHL. He was traded for Lecavalier. Gravel has the fewest games played of the bunch with 43. Only 64 players from that draft have that many games played ore more. Again, an average of two per team.

2011
2 out of the 6 players are actively in the NHL, Shore and Andreoff. Mersch is knocking on the door, but I won't call him an active NHLer. Andreoff has the fewer of the games played with 101. Only 43 other players in the draft have played more games than our worst active NHLer. Average of less than 2 per team. Keep in mind also the Kings traded their first round pick, which turned out to be Oscar Klefbom, for Dustin Penner.

2012
3 out of the 6 players are currently in the NHL: Pearson, Miller, and LaDue (okay, LaDue just started playing this week). Prokhorkin was forced back to the KHL at an early age and he decided to stay out there. Miller was traded for Lucic. 29 non Kings drafted players have played at least 83 games, which is the number of games Miller has played. So... again 1 player per team has carved out the career the two Kings drafted players have carved out.

2013
0 active NHL players, although Fasching, who was traded for McNabb, has played 6 games this season. He has 13 games total. Bartosak was deported for domestic abuse, so again, we don't really know how he would have carved out his NHL career; I just know we can't blame the scouting staff for failing to see a non-hockey issue three years later. The average number of games played by players in this draft is 69; only 20 players from the entire draft have hit that mark, averaging less than 1 per team. So, yeah, a little ugly looking, but we were still able to scrape an NHL player out of it via trade. We still have 178 games out of McNabb. Our first round pick went to Columbus for Carter.

2014
Again, things look ugly considering there are 0 active NHL players from the draft. But Roland McKeown was part of a package to go to Carolina for Andrej Sekera. Watson's playing as an overager in the OHL, Kempe is a wild card, but there's a lot of promise with Mike Amadio. The average number of games from this class is 53; the Kings only got 16 out of Sekera (ew). But these kids are still on average 21 years old. Only 14 players have hit the average game mark.

2015
The Kings don't have a first round pick due to Lombardi trading it for Lucic. None of the other players have made it, but these kids are all in juniors. The biggest disappointment is Dergachev who is being left to rot in the KHL. The average number of games from this draft is 35, which is fewer than the actual number of games we've seen transpire in this season. Still, only 15 players from the draft have hit that mark.

2016
Only 6 players from the entire class have played at least a game.

So 2013 was the beginning of when the Kings haven't drafted an NHL regular, and frankly, I still think it's too early to tell there. Even then, they acquired an active NHL regular; also, who knows how many (if any) games Bartosak would have played if he didn't do what he did?

Most of the emptiness in our cupboard isn't related to scouts' ineptitude, but Lombardi going "all in" and only getting very brief results out of the trades. They went big (trading a first round pick or higher) on Penner, Richards, Carter, Sekera, and Lucic, and while there were a couple cups we got out of it early on, the Kings ultimately lost those players for nothing. One NHL player and one AHL player were lost due to domestic abuse. The Lucic and Sekera deals were the biggest killers. Imagine the line-up this season if the Kings had kept Martin Jones and Colin Miller? Imagine the cupboard with McKeown and two more first round picks?
 
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