WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part V) [mod warning in OP]

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The Perlini call was an absolute joke, the 3 Virtnanen calls were iffy at best and similar plays from Finland were ignored, the Marner penalty was an absolute joke as well.

The Hicketts play was obviously not on the refs but the fact they are playing in an arena with that glass is ridiculous.

The Finnish tripping penalty prior to the Marner goal was a clear trip not sure what issue there is there.
 
Can't blame the refs for the calls. That IS how the rules are in international hockey. Poor discipline by key players. The only one I really don't like was the over the glass call because of the ridiculous low glass. That was a killer.
 
:biglaugh:

Ok.

Even Ferraro called it weak.

Ferraro was a "homer" (I know he isn't from there) for the Finns all game and has been an IIHF apologist for awhile now.

He is absolutely terrible when doing these games. Not sure if it is because of all the whinning from Canadian fans about how homerish TSN is (it isn't at all) but he seems to go way out of his way to criticize the Canadian team and cheer for the opponents.
 
Ferraro was a "homer" (I know he isn't from there) for the Finns all game and has been an IIHF apologist for awhile now.

He is absolutely terrible when doing these games. Not sure if it is because of all the whinning from Canadian fans about how homerish TSN is (it isn't at all) but he seems to go way out of his way to criticize the Canadian team and cheer for the opponents.

This is the part where I just nod slowly and back away.
 
Reffing had nothing to do with the result. Canada's lack of discipline is to be blamed. And really, our PK was not good. Something we are usually good at. When you play internationally PK is just as important as PP.
 
This isn't an issue of poor player development, despite what some (Sportsnet is already beating this drum) are going to claim. This team was easily talented enough to win, and add Ekblad/Bennett/Fabbri/McCann/McDavid and they walk all over the tournament. This is an issue of coaching. Canada has won gold with teams half as talented as this. Hockey Canada cannot make such an idiotic coaching selection again. Lowry is an idiot, it is as plan as day for anyone to see. Here's a thought: don't select junior coaches with only a few years of experience who haven't won a thing.

I'm looking forward to next year now, should be a good roster unless the team is decimated by the NHL. I've learned though that it may be more critical to see who is named to the team this spring than it is next December.

You were on a roll with on the money explanations right up until this typical malarkey. What happened the last time this thing was best on best... No they don't walk all over the tournament, what you have instead is an American team with Larkin, Hanifin and Eichel that looks even better, and reinforces what might actually cost them the gold, in terms of one more front line D-man and incredible center depth.

So sick of this reasoning, especially when you spend so much time crushing Lowry, was he not going to coach those said players?

Take your three losses for what they really were and stop with the excuse machine. Sweden hasn't lost a group game in nine years, the USA brought a better roster with an actual good goaltender and are missing substantial players and marching on. Finland's first line was better than what mighty Canada brought to the tournament. They completely melted down and lost all composure as well in terms of penalties.

It is disappointing but I look forward to the day, this is never trotted out. I thought that day might be over when with everyone available in Sochi they didn't medal but I guess that didn't drive home other teams are extremely good at hockey too.

Canada will take a good long look in the mirror. Yes the NHL played a part, but this is still the first time Canada has fielded a roster without having one of the 5 best players in the tournament in a while if ever. Hockey Canada needs to get a lot more serious about goaltending and if I was them I would run a much longer camp in August with these guys to get a better feel for chemistry and who is good at what.
 
Canada will take a good long look in the mirror. Yes the NHL played a part, but this is still the first time Canada has fielded a roster without having one of the 5 best players in the tournament in a while if ever. Hockey Canada needs to get a lot more serious about goaltending and if I was them I would run a much longer camp in August with these guys to get a better feel for chemistry and who is good at what.

It happened in 1998.

I'm not overly concerned.

Every sporting team in history has a bad year now and then.

Not to mention, it's better for hockey that other teams win from time to time.
 
Aside from the obvious, two things really bugged me about todays game.

1) Lowry's use of Brendan Perlini. Again, I don't like crapping on teenagers but Perlini took three penalties (whether deserved or undeserved) that directly led to goals in the tournament and didn't miss a single shift. Second, he produced literally zero offense yet still played alongside Point and Marner on one of Canada's top offensive lines. Barzal, Konecny or even Gauthier should have been put in a more offensive role well ahead of guys like Perlini and Viratnen who clearly were not on their game this entire tournament; and

2) The delay of game penalty to Joe Hicketts. While I understand this is a black and white rule, Hicketts made a good hockey play was simply clearing the zone. Low glass aside, I don't think I have ever seen a delay of game penalty where the puck went out of play over the opposition net. What a heartbreaking way to put Canada on a 5 on 3 and for Canada to, in effect, lose the game.

Also, at a macro level, it is utterly amazing how terrible Canada's goaltending has been in this tournament throughout the last 8-9 years. I can hardly remember a time where a Canadian goaltender has made a game saving save, let alone has stolen a game. Price and Mason were obvious standouts, but beyond that Visentin, Wedgewood, Allen, Blackwood, etc, were atrocious when needed. Fucale and Comrie were just decent on a loaded team that nearly imploded last year against the Russians.

Consistently Canadian teams have been losing established momentum due to goals that just have to be stopped, and that get stopped by the Finnish, Swedish, American and Russian goalies.
 
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2) The delay of game penalty to Joe Hicketts. While I understand this is a black and white rule, Hicketts made a good hockey play was simply clearing the zone. Low glass aside, I don't think I have ever seen a delay of game penalty where the puck went out of play over the opposition net. What a heartbreaking way to put Canada on a 5 on 3 and to, in effect, lose the game.

No one is really blaming Hicketts.

The point being that you can absorb an accidental penalty like that if someone else isn't already serving a selfish one.
 
1st-4th-czech-denmark-9
2nd-3rd-canada-slovakia-latvia

pools for next year as of now. 9th = winner of swiss/belarus relegation
 
I know he was injured, but does Brayden Point have enough skill to put up points in the NHL? He looked like a grinder playing top 6 minutes.
 
I guess we disagree then. Im not sure which "crappy decisions" you are referring to but I believe the Virtanen and Hicketts penalties sealed the game for Finland. I guess the Marner penalty really finished it.

The calls on Virtanen and Hicketts were clear cut. Im not quite sure how you could argue those. The Marner one was a bit iffy. But the second player to act in scrums had been getting that penalty all tournament. Marner has to know better than that in the dying moments of the third period.

I am not going to put blame on 1 player for losing today. But this lack of discipline from Team Canada is really uncharacteristic of what we are about. Too many selfish me PIMS. Too many long shifts both by multiple offenders. In a way this was the most selfish Team Canada I have seen in quite some time.

Sherry Bassin once famously coined the saying. "Action Penalties, not Reactionary Penalties". This was prophetic and it did us in at the end.
 
I know he was injured, but does Brayden Point have enough skill to put up points in the NHL? He looked like a grinder playing top 6 minutes.

I think you can probably insert any player's name in for Point after this performance.

Using this tournament to evaluate future performance is going to be difficult as no one really stood out in a meaningful way.

I posted the 1998 team earlier:

# Player Pos GP G A P PIM
21 Josh Holden F/A 7 4 0 4 14
10 Daniel Tkaczuk F/A 7 2 1 3 4
19 Alex Tanguay F/A 7 2 1 3 2
15 Daniel Corso F/A 7 0 3 3 4
12 Matt Cooke F/A 6 1 1 2 6
14 Vincent Lecavalier F/A 7 1 1 2 4
16 Brett McLean F/A 7 1 1 2 4
28 Matt Bradley F/A 7 1 1 2 2
7 Sean Blanchard D 7 0 2 2 8
3 Eric Brewer D 7 0 2 2 8
24 Brian Willsie F/A 7 0 2 2 4
20 Jason Ward F/A 7 1 0 1 2
22 Cory Sarich D 7 0 1 1 6
2 Brad Ference D 7 0 1 1 10
5 Zenith Komarniski D 7 0 0 0 26
11 Steve Bégin F/A 7 0 0 0 10
26 Mike Van Ryn D 7 0 0 0 4
18 Jean-Pierre Dumont F/A 7 0 0 0 0
6 Manny Malhotra F/A 7 0 0 0 0
4 Jesse Wallin D 4 0 0 0 4


# Player Pos GP MIN GA GAA SO W-L-T
32 Mathieu Garon G 5 283 9 1.19 2 2-3-0
1 Roberto Luongo G 3 146 9 3.70 0 0-2-0

Some quality players in there who really stunk.
 
No one is really blaming Hicketts.

The point being that you can absorb an accidental penalty like that if someone else isn't already serving a selfish one.

Not saying anyone is blaming Hicketts, just making the point that I think it was a brutal way to end up having to kill a 5 on 3 given that it was a good hockey play.
 
You were on a roll with on the money explanations right up until this typical malarkey. What happened the last time this thing was best on best... No they don't walk all over the tournament, what you have instead is an American team with Larkin, Hanifin and Eichel that looks even better, and reinforces what might actually cost them the gold, in terms of one more front line D-man and incredible center depth.

So sick of this reasoning, especially when you spend so much time crushing Lowry, was he not going to coach those said players?

Take your three losses for what they really were and stop with the excuse machine. Sweden hasn't lost a group game in nine years, the USA brought a better roster with an actual good goaltender and are missing substantial players and marching on. Finland's first line was better than what mighty Canada brought to the tournament. They completely melted down and lost all composure as well in terms of penalties.

It is disappointing but I look forward to the day, this is never trotted out. I thought that day might be over when with everyone available in Sochi they didn't medal but I guess that didn't drive home other teams are extremely good at hockey too.

Canada will take a good long look in the mirror. Yes the NHL played a part, but this is still the first time Canada has fielded a roster without having one of the 5 best players in the tournament in a while if ever. Hockey Canada needs to get a lot more serious about goaltending and if I was them I would run a much longer camp in August with these guys to get a better feel for chemistry and who is good at what.
Canada won gold at the Olympics in Sochi in 2014. I believe you're referring to the Ufa tournament in Russia, where we finished 4th largely in part to another terrible coach in Steve Spott.
 
I am saying that the reason that the Finns won the game was 100% because of the reffing.But Canada also had major issues throughout the tournament as well.

Canada should have never been in a position to allow the refs crappy decisions to affect the outcome of the game but they played so poorly that they did.

In the sense that the Canadian players kept taking stupid penalties, sure...

The refereeing standard is the same for all teams in IIHF tournaments, and everyone knows what it is. If Canada can't cope with that, it's not the refs' fault.
 
B s officiaitng. They are just helping the home nation. A lot of iffy calls but really the entire Canadian team was bad.
 
B s officiaitng. They are just helping the home nation. A lot of iffy calls but really the entire Canadian team was bad.

The officiating was weak but it went both ways.

Players were throwing themselves around because the refs kept falling for it.
 
Whatever the reasons are, wherever the blame is, at the end, as a result, this is extremely disappointing for me, and for canadian hockey.

As many pointed out, the loss is good for the future. Can't really tell where the mistake was, but even I don't find Lowry's choaching exactly great. I think he did some good things though. I mean, you have to give him some credit, I think the first period was very good and very well coached and players seemed very responsbile, and the team played a very, very good overall game. You have to give him the credit for that I think.

Unortunately, it didn't last, and as the game continued, everything was just getting worse and worse, with less and less of the performance we saw in the first twenty minutes. This team was definitely good enough to win the gold. I think they even played that way in some parts of the games against the US, Sweden, or Finland.

I think Hockey Canada should look into this and try to understand what was wrong and why, which, at the end, should only make us stronger in the future.

As for the coach, you can make all the decisions you want, as long as you have results, which was not the case this year. I think we should also try to bring the last golden coach if he's available. As long as I don't want to disrespect Lowry, I find it hard to believe that he is the best coach in three major junior hockey leagues in Canada.

I think that in terms of effort, the team played a solid game and can't blame anyone for not giving their best, definitely not.

One obvious thing comes to mind that should have been done imo, and that is, when Finland tied it 3-3 and then a few moments later they scored again and made it 4-3, Lowry should have pulled Blackwood. Another opportunity to do that was when Finland scored 5-4. I don't understand why this wasn't done.

I feel bad for the players, they really played at least 30-40 minutes of an excellent hockey game imo, but unfortunately, the rest was what cost this team this QF game, the first QF loss since 1998? I think everyone will agree that some things need to be changed. I am always positive and optimistic, and I believe that this team had it all to win this tournament at least, if not to dominate. But some things got in the way of making that possible, which should lead HC to understanding of what was wrong and how to change it. I don't think there's a problem with some hockey development. The team is clearly strong enough to be a world champion, let alone to beat Finland, who I don't consider to be among TOP3 teams in this tournament paper-wise. (Canada, US, Sweden imo). No. The talent was there, the skills, the effort and also more effective physicality than, I think many, expected.

Again, I feel bad for the players. It's not easy in Canada with the pressure to win gold, and you lose the QF game instead. It has to be hard now. Especially for a player like Virtanen, who tried, but didn't probably match his own expectations. I hope that it will only help to our players in their future careers, and also in our future in, not only, junior hockey.


I was impressed by Strome, Marner and Barzal, and I think they will all be NHL super-stars. I will probably never get it how Barzal was drafted so low.



As for the next year, I'm expecting definitely a very strong roster with Barzal, Gauthier, and Marne, and that could be a huge boost. I was impressed by Gauthier as he looks to me like an absolute copy of Ryan Getzlaf.
 
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