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WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part V) [mod warning in OP]

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JackSlater said:
Canada just completed its worst WJC performance since 1998, and a bottom three performance overall. It's fitting that they were eliminated a one line team with bad defence and bad goaltending. The blame lies in a few places, but we all know the main issue: Lowry. The team was easily talented enough to win. There are no particularly strong teams this year, and Canada showed flashes against each quality team that it played. Still though... Lowry.

This performance may be worse than Steve Spott's, because at least Spott's team (while playing pretty badly) didn't lose a game until elimination. Lowry oversaw two losses and a shootout, and still clung to the same ideas.

Can anyone point to a year with a worse defenceman than Hicketts leading Canada's blueline? I can't. It isn't even Hicketts' fault, as he was good enough to make the team, but Lowry made it clear that Hicketts was unquestionably the #1, most clearly when he played ~4 minutes in a 5 minute overtime. Sanheim, who most expected to be the leader on the blueline, was relegated to a rotating #7 spot until the last half of the elimination game. It was ridiculous. Lowry's forcing of Hicketts into a role he wasn't up to, and keeping two defencemen (McKeown and Sanheim) off balance with his ice time distribution is ultimately the biggest problem with the defence.

Also of note: Hickey and Fleury were Canada's attempt at a shutdown pairing, a staple of the teams of the last decade, and I can't remember a worse pairing. They basically caused two of the goals against Canada in the elimination game and as a pairing were an abject failure. Fleury in particular looked terrible.

Goaltending was a problem as well. McDonald and Blackwood were anointed as the pair before the tournament. McDonald was bad in the summer camp, the super series, the exhibition games and in the tournament. I think we can all agree, he just isn't good. Blackwood is a different case, as he looked good in every opportunity leading into the tournament. He was given the reigns in the final game, and we all saw how terrible he was. Both goaltenders failed. Once again I think about Lowry. It seems clear that Blackwood is the guy that they wanted. If that is the case, and knowing that Blackwood was going to be somewhat cold coming from his suspension....... why not play him in the exhibitions outside of the one Czech game? If he's the goaltender, then give him game experience to make up for his suspension. The failing performance in net is on the goaltenders, but Lowry didn't help.

Another indicator of Lowry's incompetence: can anyone remember worse special teams for Canada? The penalty kill was atrociously ineffective, with unused players in some cases playing a significant role. The powerplay only scored when a player had a great individual effort. You would think that a coach would adjust their idiotic PP formation when they noted that it wasn't working. Lowry doesn't think that way apparently. Stationary umbrella PP. How effective.

The forwards were not bad individually, but there was no structure. Think about how often the forwards had to skate back and carry the puck up ice because the breakout was so bad. Think about Beauvillier, who often made things happen when on the ice,in the 13th forward role for a few games. The whole Barzal line, which was generally effective with Barzal among Canada's best players, barely got any playing time when games got close. Same for the Stephens line. Also, Lowry seemingly blindly believed TSN about there being chemistry between Strome and Marner (still 0 evidence of chemistry) and sat them out in games when he could have... you know... actually looked for chemistry. Inexcusable. Also, I certainly hope Point is injured. He was unexpectedly horrible. If he is injured, then horrible choice of captain by Lowry.

Lowry's bench management. We've all discussed it, but it's unacceptable to have shifts that long in this day and age. There was no accountability on this team. Point's line and Strome's line were going to get big minutes no matter what. Even Virtanen, after practically costing Canada the game with one of the stupidest plays ever witnessed on the international stage, was out there at the end of the game. Mind blowing.

Virtanen turned in by far the worst performance ever for a returned player. He had a role to play, and physically he was capable of fulfilling that role, but he was utilized horribly. Virtanen just isn't suited to a scoring line role. He can't cycle and make quick plays. He was forced into a scoring role and that's not acceptable. Still, he deserves a ton of blame for his own idiocy. No one did more to help Finland in the elimination game than Virtanen did. Not even Lowry.

For positives, there aren't many. Konecny was consistently very good for Canada, and shame on Lowry for not utilizing him enough. Crouse and Stephens were also good in their roles. Strome, who I was quite skeptical of, looked pretty good overall. Smart player. Marner was bad to start the tournament, despite what some want to believe, but he turned it on late. Looks like he could be a great player. Barzal was criminally underutilized, and if he returns next year I would be quite comfortable with him as Canada's top centre. He also looks like he could be elite. Beauvillier is also someone who had a lot more to give, had he been given the chance. None of the defencemen stood out a whole lot in a positive way, perhaps Chabot was the best. The goaltenders sucked.

This isn't an issue of poor player development, despite what some (Sportsnet is already beating this drum) are going to claim. This team was easily talented enough to win, and add Ekblad/Bennett/Fabbri/McCann/McDavid and they walk all over the tournament. This is an issue of coaching. Canada has won gold with teams half as talented as this. Hockey Canada cannot make such an idiotic coaching selection again. Lowry is an idiot, it is as plan as day for anyone to see. Here's a thought: don't select junior coaches with only a few years of experience who haven't won a thing.

I'm looking forward to next year now, should be a good roster unless the team is decimated by the NHL. I've learned though that it may be more critical to see who is named to the team this spring than it is next December.
Click to expand...

Agree with everything...glad this is over. now on to next year. I hope we all see Hockey Canada make some serious changes in how they prepare for this tournament. And that starts in July/August.

I'm not going to waste another minute thinking about that coach.
 
moon said:
Oh well time to move on and wait until next year because who gives a crap about the 4 garbage teams left this year.
Click to expand...

Oh, we will enjoy more of that hiarious ******** crap. As well as the BS about 17 yrs of "dominance". Just sad the Finns did the job already.
 
Guru Meditation said:
But you can't really fight in international hockey...
Click to expand...


Figure of speech. Heart and fight =/= dropping the gloves. Heart and fight would be the equivalent of the first 19 minutes of the first period. That was Canadian hockey.
 
JackSlater said:
Canada just completed its worst WJC performance since 1998, and a bottom three performance overall. It's fitting that they were eliminated a one line team with bad defence and bad goaltending. The blame lies in a few places, but we all know the main issue: Lowry. The team was easily talented enough to win. There are no particularly strong teams this year, and Canada showed flashes against each quality team that it played. Still though... Lowry.

This performance may be worse than Steve Spott's, because at least Spott's team (while playing pretty badly) didn't lose a game until elimination. Lowry oversaw two losses and a shootout, and still clung to the same ideas.

Can anyone point to a year with a worse defenceman than Hicketts leading Canada's blueline? I can't. It isn't even Hicketts' fault, as he was good enough to make the team, but Lowry made it clear that Hicketts was unquestionably the #1, most clearly when he played ~4 minutes in a 5 minute overtime. Sanheim, who most expected to be the leader on the blueline, was relegated to a rotating #7 spot until the last half of the elimination game. It was ridiculous. Lowry's forcing of Hicketts into a role he wasn't up to, and keeping two defencemen (McKeown and Sanheim) off balance with his ice time distribution is ultimately the biggest problem with the defence.

Also of note: Hickey and Fleury were Canada's attempt at a shutdown pairing, a staple of the teams of the last decade, and I can't remember a worse pairing. They basically caused two of the goals against Canada in the elimination game and as a pairing were an abject failure. Fleury in particular looked terrible.

Goaltending was a problem as well. McDonald and Blackwood were anointed as the pair before the tournament. McDonald was bad in the summer camp, the super series, the exhibition games and in the tournament. I think we can all agree, he just isn't good. Blackwood is a different case, as he looked good in every opportunity leading into the tournament. He was given the reigns in the final game, and we all saw how terrible he was. Both goaltenders failed. Once again I think about Lowry. It seems clear that Blackwood is the guy that they wanted. If that is the case, and knowing that Blackwood was going to be somewhat cold coming from his suspension....... why not play him in the exhibitions outside of the one Czech game? If he's the goaltender, then give him game experience to make up for his suspension. The failing performance in net is on the goaltenders, but Lowry didn't help.

Another indicator of Lowry's incompetence: can anyone remember worse special teams for Canada? The penalty kill was atrociously ineffective, with unused players in some cases playing a significant role. The powerplay only scored when a player had a great individual effort. You would think that a coach would adjust their idiotic PP formation when they noted that it wasn't working. Lowry doesn't think that way apparently. Stationary umbrella PP. How effective.

The forwards were not bad individually, but there was no structure. Think about how often the forwards had to skate back and carry the puck up ice because the breakout was so bad. Think about Beauvillier, who often made things happen when on the ice,in the 13th forward role for a few games. The whole Barzal line, which was generally effective with Barzal among Canada's best players, barely got any playing time when games got close. Same for the Stephens line. Also, Lowry seemingly blindly believed TSN about there being chemistry between Strome and Marner (still 0 evidence of chemistry) and sat them out in games when he could have... you know... actually looked for chemistry. Inexcusable. Also, I certainly hope Point is injured. He was unexpectedly horrible. If he is injured, then horrible choice of captain by Lowry.

Lowry's bench management. We've all discussed it, but it's unacceptable to have shifts that long in this day and age. There was no accountability on this team. Point's line and Strome's line were going to get big minutes no matter what. Even Virtanen, after practically costing Canada the game with one of the stupidest plays ever witnessed on the international stage, was out there at the end of the game. Mind blowing.

Virtanen turned in by far the worst performance ever for a returned player. He had a role to play, and physically he was capable of fulfilling that role, but he was utilized horribly. Virtanen just isn't suited to a scoring line role. He can't cycle and make quick plays. He was forced into a scoring role and that's not acceptable. Still, he deserves a ton of blame for his own idiocy. No one did more to help Finland in the elimination game than Virtanen did. Not even Lowry.

For positives, there aren't many. Konecny was consistently very good for Canada, and shame on Lowry for not utilizing him enough. Crouse and Stephens were also good in their roles. Strome, who I was quite skeptical of, looked pretty good overall. Smart player. Marner was bad to start the tournament, despite what some want to believe, but he turned it on late. Looks like he could be a great player. Barzal was criminally underutilized, and if he returns next year I would be quite comfortable with him as Canada's top centre. He also looks like he could be elite. Beauvillier is also someone who had a lot more to give, had he been given the chance. None of the defencemen stood out a whole lot in a positive way, perhaps Chabot was the best. The goaltenders sucked.

This isn't an issue of poor player development, despite what some (Sportsnet is already beating this drum) are going to claim. This team was easily talented enough to win, and add Ekblad/Bennett/Fabbri/McCann/McDavid and they walk all over the tournament. This is an issue of coaching. Canada has won gold with teams half as talented as this. Hockey Canada cannot make such an idiotic coaching selection again. Lowry is an idiot, it is as plan as day for anyone to see. Here's a thought: don't select junior coaches with only a few years of experience who haven't won a thing.

I'm looking forward to next year now, should be a good roster unless the team is decimated by the NHL. I've learned though that it may be more critical to see who is named to the team this spring than it is next December.
Click to expand...
Good post. We never run into coaching problems at the men level because at the men level, coaches are willing to return for one more year and are looked under a microscope in the NHL so there won't be any weak coaches.
 
JackSlater said:
Canada just completed its worst WJC performance since 1998, and a bottom three performance overall. It's fitting that they were eliminated a one line team with bad defence and bad goaltending. The blame lies in a few places, but we all know the main issue: Lowry. The team was easily talented enough to win. There are no particularly strong teams this year, and Canada showed flashes against each quality team that it played. Still though... Lowry.

This performance may be worse than Steve Spott's, because at least Spott's team (while playing pretty badly) didn't lose a game until elimination. Lowry oversaw two losses and a shootout, and still clung to the same ideas.

Can anyone point to a year with a worse defenceman than Hicketts leading Canada's blueline? I can't. It isn't even Hicketts' fault, as he was good enough to make the team, but Lowry made it clear that Hicketts was unquestionably the #1, most clearly when he played ~4 minutes in a 5 minute overtime. Sanheim, who most expected to be the leader on the blueline, was relegated to a rotating #7 spot until the last half of the elimination game. It was ridiculous. Lowry's forcing of Hicketts into a role he wasn't up to, and keeping two defencemen (McKeown and Sanheim) off balance with his ice time distribution is ultimately the biggest problem with the defence.

Also of note: Hickey and Fleury were Canada's attempt at a shutdown pairing, a staple of the teams of the last decade, and I can't remember a worse pairing. They basically caused two of the goals against Canada in the elimination game and as a pairing were an abject failure. Fleury in particular looked terrible.

Goaltending was a problem as well. McDonald and Blackwood were anointed as the pair before the tournament. McDonald was bad in the summer camp, the super series, the exhibition games and in the tournament. I think we can all agree, he just isn't good. Blackwood is a different case, as he looked good in every opportunity leading into the tournament. He was given the reigns in the final game, and we all saw how terrible he was. Both goaltenders failed. Once again I think about Lowry. It seems clear that Blackwood is the guy that they wanted. If that is the case, and knowing that Blackwood was going to be somewhat cold coming from his suspension....... why not play him in the exhibitions outside of the one Czech game? If he's the goaltender, then give him game experience to make up for his suspension. The failing performance in net is on the goaltenders, but Lowry didn't help.

Another indicator of Lowry's incompetence: can anyone remember worse special teams for Canada? The penalty kill was atrociously ineffective, with unused players in some cases playing a significant role. The powerplay only scored when a player had a great individual effort. You would think that a coach would adjust their idiotic PP formation when they noted that it wasn't working. Lowry doesn't think that way apparently. Stationary umbrella PP. How effective.

The forwards were not bad individually, but there was no structure. Think about how often the forwards had to skate back and carry the puck up ice because the breakout was so bad. Think about Beauvillier, who often made things happen when on the ice,in the 13th forward role for a few games. The whole Barzal line, which was generally effective with Barzal among Canada's best players, barely got any playing time when games got close. Same for the Stephens line. Also, Lowry seemingly blindly believed TSN about there being chemistry between Strome and Marner (still 0 evidence of chemistry) and sat them out in games when he could have... you know... actually looked for chemistry. Inexcusable. Also, I certainly hope Point is injured. He was unexpectedly horrible. If he is injured, then horrible choice of captain by Lowry.

Lowry's bench management. We've all discussed it, but it's unacceptable to have shifts that long in this day and age. There was no accountability on this team. Point's line and Strome's line were going to get big minutes no matter what. Even Virtanen, after practically costing Canada the game with one of the stupidest plays ever witnessed on the international stage, was out there at the end of the game. Mind blowing.

Virtanen turned in by far the worst performance ever for a returned player. He had a role to play, and physically he was capable of fulfilling that role, but he was utilized horribly. Virtanen just isn't suited to a scoring line role. He can't cycle and make quick plays. He was forced into a scoring role and that's not acceptable. Still, he deserves a ton of blame for his own idiocy. No one did more to help Finland in the elimination game than Virtanen did. Not even Lowry.

For positives, there aren't many. Konecny was consistently very good for Canada, and shame on Lowry for not utilizing him enough. Crouse and Stephens were also good in their roles. Strome, who I was quite skeptical of, looked pretty good overall. Smart player. Marner was bad to start the tournament, despite what some want to believe, but he turned it on late. Looks like he could be a great player. Barzal was criminally underutilized, and if he returns next year I would be quite comfortable with him as Canada's top centre. He also looks like he could be elite. Beauvillier is also someone who had a lot more to give, had he been given the chance. None of the defencemen stood out a whole lot in a positive way, perhaps Chabot was the best. The goaltenders sucked.

This isn't an issue of poor player development, despite what some (Sportsnet is already beating this drum) are going to claim. This team was easily talented enough to win, and add Ekblad/Bennett/Fabbri/McCann/McDavid and they walk all over the tournament. This is an issue of coaching. Canada has won gold with teams half as talented as this. Hockey Canada cannot make such an idiotic coaching selection again. Lowry is an idiot, it is as plan as day for anyone to see. Here's a thought: don't select junior coaches with only a few years of experience who haven't won a thing.

I'm looking forward to next year now, should be a good roster unless the team is decimated by the NHL. I've learned though that it may be more critical to see who is named to the team this spring than it is next December.
Click to expand...

All great points. What will stick out to me is the lack of discipline on this team. Virtanen and Perlini will wear a lot of blame for today's result (and rightfully so), but Strome and Marner also took stupid penalties in the latter stages of today's game that really cost us and it's especially galling that Lowry kept going back to them immediately after we dug the puck out of our own net. Perlini took the shift immediately after his penalty led to a Finland goal, as did Virtanen. Virtanen played a lot in the latter half of the third period. Inexcusable on the part of Lowry, as holding players accountable for selfish and undisciplined play (and, conversely, rewarding strong play) is Coaching 101 and Lowry gets a miserable grade in that regard.

The pieces were there, to be sure, but our players were not put in the right position to succeed. Virtanen being force-fed minutes on Strome's line despite showing no semblance of chemistry or fit is simply stupid. Konecny barely playing when the game was on the line is stupid. Not pulling Blackwood, who was terrible today, was stupid. And these poor decisions and not making the appropriate adjustmemts cost us time and time again.

Overall, it's probably better for Canada in the long run that we lost today so that we can go back to the drawing board. The talent will always be there for us, but finding the right coaching staff is of critical importance going forward.
 
mocranks said:
I was scared Crouse was going to be what Virtanen ended up being - I'm pleasantly surprised
Click to expand...

Crouse was one that came on late in the tournament. He didn't get any PP time, yet he finished 1+1 on the game. He is a good player, I never had a doubt. But in general with the rest of this team's core (Marner, Strome, Point, Virtanen)was simply not good enough this tournament. It's as simple as that.

We all knew Goaltending and the Defence were going to be question marks. The only good thing we did was capitalize on the PP this tourney.
 
moon said:
Lowry was a terrible choice before the tournament and showed through out that he was way out of his depth here. I don't understand the choice. He hasn't won at the WHL level, is at best the 10th best coach in that league can't rate him any better than that, hasn't won anywhere else and we have a ton of much better options. Just seemed crazy that he was the guy choosen.

Other than that such a weird roster for Canada. Missing a stud center (Point if healthy would have been this), stud defenseman, solid shutdown pair and a stud goalie. Canada doesn't always have each of these but at least have a couple and this year they were lacking completely.

People can complain about sour grapes but this team really missed McDavid, Ekblad, Bennett and Fabbri. Sure every Canadian team has to go with missing its best guys but this year those guys seemed to be exactly what the team was missing. Having Ekblad back there for 35 minutes likely cuts down on a lot of mistakes and obviously a Bennett-McDavid-Fabbri line takes care of any scoring issue and makes the Finnihs 1st line look like a joke. But that is life for the Canadian junior team and they should have been able to overcome that.

I guess after so many years of dominance 1 bad year isn't a big deal (17 straight years in the SF is f'ing amazing) but I am sure many fools will freak out and wonder what is wrong with Canadian hockey.

Oh well time to move on and wait until next year because who gives a crap about the 4 garbage teams left this year.
Click to expand...

post of the year candidate

bravo sir :laugh:
 
moon said:
I guess after so many years of dominance 1 bad year isn't a big deal (17 straight years in the SF is f'ing amazing) but I am sure many fools will freak out and wonder what is wrong with Canadian hockey.
Click to expand...

It's about as foolish as blaming the refs for Canada ******** the bed.
 
Blaming the refs is just stupid. We saw these warning signs even in the pretournament. It was up to Lowry to address it and make sure it was cleaned up before the medal round. This is on him.
 
moon said:
Lowry was a terrible choice before the tournament and showed through out that he was way out of his depth here. I don't understand the choice. He hasn't won at the WHL level, is at best the 10th best coach in that league can't rate him any better than that, hasn't won anywhere else and we have a ton of much better options. Just seemed crazy that he was the guy choosen.

Other than that such a weird roster for Canada. Missing a stud center (Point if healthy would have been this), stud defenseman, solid shutdown pair and a stud goalie. Canada doesn't always have each of these but at least have a couple and this year they were lacking completely.

People can complain about sour grapes but this team really missed McDavid, Ekblad, Bennett and Fabbri. Sure every Canadian team has to go with missing its best guys but this year those guys seemed to be exactly what the team was missing. Having Ekblad back there for 35 minutes likely cuts down on a lot of mistakes and obviously a Bennett-McDavid-Fabbri line takes care of any scoring issue and makes the Finnihs 1st line look like a joke. But that is life for the Canadian junior team and they should have been able to overcome that.

I guess after so many years of dominance 1 bad year isn't a big deal (17 straight years in the SF is f'ing amazing) but I am sure many fools will freak out and wonder what is wrong with Canadian hockey.

Oh well time to move on and wait until next year because who gives a crap about the 4 garbage teams left this year.
Click to expand...

Good post, lost control at the end though. 7/10
 
Did they name Canada's 3 best players of the tournament? I'm guessing that was hard to choose!!
 
moon said:
Not the reason Canada crapped the bed but the reason the Finns won today that is for sure.
Click to expand...

No. TC has no one but themselves to blame for that loss. They were mentally weak the whole tournament.
 
Watching this defence play this tourney, and considering 3 of the 4 final 4 teams leading scorers are draft eligible players. Team Canada not taking a player of Jakob Chychrun's talent does seem to be an obvious mistake now.
 
Oil and Avs said:
Not sure what you're saying here exactly. But you cannot in any way blame today's game on the refs. This team did this to themselves
Click to expand...

I am saying that the reason that the Finns won the game was 100% because of the reffing.But Canada also had major issues throughout the tournament as well.

Canada should have never been in a position to allow the refs crappy decisions to affect the outcome of the game but they played so poorly that they did.
 
moon said:
I am saying that the reason that the Finns won the game was 100% because of the reffing.But Canada also had major issues throughout the tournament as well.

Canada should have never been in a position to allow the refs crappy decisions to affect the outcome of the game but they played so poorly that they did.
Click to expand...

I guess we disagree then. Im not sure which "crappy decisions" you are referring to but I believe the Virtanen and Hicketts penalties sealed the game for Finland. I guess the Marner penalty really finished it.

The calls on Virtanen and Hicketts were clear cut. Im not quite sure how you could argue those. The Marner one was a bit iffy. But the second player to act in scrums had been getting that penalty all tournament. Marner has to know better than that in the dying moments of the third period.
 
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