WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part V) [mod warning in OP]

[Larry44]

Maybe, Wilson, you should mind your own business, you arrogant ********.

Wilson's arrogance notwithstanding, he nailed it.

 

[PecnoTrunk]

Only harsh in the sense that Mackenzie Blackwood and Dave Lowry were equally responsible but good ole Jake owns at east 50% of the blame.

I put ALL the blame on lowry

All he had to do is pull the goalie after the 3 rd gaol


If he pulls the goalie we might not have seen all those useless penalties we took

He should have pulled the goalie, he let in to many softies, if a nobody like me saw that the goalie was not on his game today why didnt lowry see this????

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He may not be wrong, but it isn't his business, and he is clearly smug that we ended up taking a lot of penalties.

He didn't make it his business. He was asked by the media what his thoughts were.

And if I were Wilson, I'd also probably think it a bit ironic that the one thing he talked to Lowry about (discipline) was the one thing Lowry was unable to enforce.

If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at the Canadian media for asking Wilson his thoughts.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He didn't make it his business. He was asked by the media what his thoughts were.

And if I were Wilson, I'd also probably think it a bit ironic that the one thing he talked to Lowry about (discipline) was the one thing Lowry was unable to enforce.

If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at the Canadian media for asking Wilson his thoughts.

People can choose to be mad about whatever they want.

For instance as a USA fan angry isn't really correct but I would have preferred Wilson say next question or not elaborate to that extent. Like hey staying out of the box is really important, I hope my players took note of that, but we are preparing for our game and our goals. Something along those lines, like I don't care what happened to Canada and name names (Lowry and Virtanen) outside of the teaching moment for my group...

Wilson and his players still have a job to do, analysis of what befell Canada outside of a lesson for his particular group wasn't really necessary at least at this time. TSN asks that question in a week or so after then sure he can elaborate.

 

[Get North]

That comment was nothing, the comment about not scouting Russia was hilarious. He said he wouldn't scout Russia which is pretty stupid this isn't a weak team. No wonder he didn't get **** done in Toronto, Randy Carlyle put Ron Wilson to shame after the Leafs make the playoffs once Wilson left.

 

[Semantics]

Keep in mind in addition to this poor finish, Canada has finished 4th twice and 3rd once within the last 5 years now ... Only one gold medal in the only time they've made it to the finals in that span.

For a country that believes it to be the best hockey nation in the world and gold expectations every year, this trend leads us to believe something's wrong with Hockey Canada and player development currently.

And yes I understand parity is increasing and other nations are catching up (which is great for the sport) but Canada apparently isn't adapting by the looks of it

Last year Canada had McDavid, and this year the USA has Matthews and will probably win. Some years it just comes down to one team having a superstar that pushes them over the edge.

I also think someone made a very apt point earlier. In Canada, the players are for the most part chosen from a pool of athletes who have rich parents who can afford elite development. I wonder how many Connor McDavids we've missed out on because a kid just as talented couldn't afford to play.

We would do much better if kids advanced strictly on talent, with the development costs being covered. This is how some countries do things, and not just in sports, but also academics.

 

[Get North]

Last year Canada had McDavid, and this year the USA has Matthews and will probably win. Some years it just comes down to one team having a superstar that pushes them over the edge.

I also think someone made a very apt point earlier. In Canada, the players are for the most part chosen from a pool of athletes who have rich parents who can afford elite development. I wonder how many Connor McDavids we've missed out on because a kid just as talented couldn't afford to play.

We would do much better if kids advanced strictly on talent, with the development costs being covered. This is how some countries do things, and not just in sports, but also academics.

Trust me, talent doesn't go unrecognized. Hockey Canada will pay for the equipment for a McDavid to play hockey.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Canada didn't have great top end talent this year but the coach kept running the same guys out there as opposed to wearing teams down with depth.

Weakest Canada team I've ever seen (I wasn't following this back in 98 so I don't know how they compare)

 

[tsujimoto74]

Last year Canada had McDavid, and this year the USA has Matthews and will probably win. Some years it just comes down to one team having a superstar that pushes them over the edge.

I also think someone made a very apt point earlier. In Canada, the players are for the most part chosen from a pool of athletes who have rich parents who can afford elite development. I wonder how many Connor McDavids we've missed out on because a kid just as talented couldn't afford to play.

We would do much better if kids advanced strictly on talent, with the development costs being covered. This is how some countries do things, and not just in sports, but also academics.

IMO Reinhart and Domi were both way more important to Canada last year than McDavid was. This year's Canadian team just didn't have that level of depth.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Trust me, talent doesn't go unrecognized. Hockey Canada will pay for the equipment for a McDavid to play hockey.

No because you need money to stand out initially. Gotta be on the right travel team from a young age and get that crucial development.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

People can choose to be mad about whatever they want.

For instance as a USA fan angry isn't really correct but I would have preferred Wilson say next question or not elaborate to that extent. Like hey staying out of the box is really important, I hope my players took note of that, but we are preparing for our game and our goals. Something along those lines, like I don't care what happened to Canada and name names (Lowry and Virtanen) outside of the teaching moment for my group...

Wilson and his players still have a job to do, analysis of what befell Canada outside of a lesson for his particular group wasn't really necessary at least at this time. TSN asks that question in a week or so after then sure he can elaborate.

I tend to agree from a US fan stand point. I'm guessing Wilson either didn't really think through the way he messaged his thoughts, or in the more likely scenario probably didn't think/care a whole lot about the line of questioning in general, and gave a lazy, no BS reply. Neither of which should really upset anyone. Bad penalties cost Canada the tournament, everybody has been saying it. Not sure why its such a big deal that Wilson acknowledged the obvious when he was asked about it.

In any case, I think he's got his players on board. I chatted briefly with him at Helsinki Ice Hall and he seemed very calm, comfortable, confident, and in control. That's a great thing to see for the kids he's coaching.

 

[Ace]

IMO Reinhart and Domi were both way more important to Canada last year than McDavid was. This year's Canadian team just didn't have that level of depth.

Yeah last year was all about that Reinhart/Domi/Duclair line being completely unstoppable on every inch of the ice.

McDavid being back this year would have helped...but two pretty great American 19 year olds weren't available to them this year to because they are in Detroit and Buffalo...so it's not like team Canada is the only victim of this. Not to mention Hanifin in Carolina... ... Damn team USA would have been terrifying.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Canada didn't have great top end talent this year but the coach kept running the same guys out there as opposed to wearing teams down with depth.

Weakest Canada team I've ever seen (I wasn't following this back in 98 so I don't know how they compare)

Exactly. Canada went up early while rolling the lines against a weak Finnish defence but soon reverted back to the longer shift shorter bench game that had already failed previously. First period aside, that game may have been entertaining but it wasn't our best. The game against the USA clearly was.

This Team was coached like a Junior league team with no depth, significant drop in talent through the line up, and no real back up goalie. Not like the hand picked Canadian National Team that it was. Overplaying your top players until they get frustrated or can't maintain the pace is not a great strategy in any case.

...and Wilson doesn't need to be a coaching genius to point out the importance of discipline with the IIHF refs. We were all saying pretty much the same things going into the game. Why was he even compelled to have mentioned it to Lowry? Did he really think Lowry was that dumb?

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

He'll sleep through it

I laughed way to hard at this

 

[jjjshab]

I think the fix to this is fairly simple: you make it a dogfight, a once-in-a-lifetime event.

-Allow only players born in (WJC year - 19) to participate in the Summer Selection Camp, i.e. 1997 for 2016. One exception per year can be made for an "underage" (i.e. '98 born) player. Make it a three-week process, and test the hell out of the kids to ensure you're getting the best.

-Announce TC no later than SEPTEMBER 1ST.

-The team then has three full months to practice together, adapt to one another, and become a team together. Sessions are scheduled around each player's respective major junior schedule, ensuring that they miss as few (or no) club games as possible.

-Following the aforementioned deadline, there are no adds, no loans- this is your team, and future coaches won't be inclined to play "NHL regulars" like Virtanen.

-Once the tournament is complete, THERE ARE NO RETURNEES. This is your one shot at history, at legacy; you better make the most of it. No "maybe next year" attitude. Again, this also eliminates the politics concerning underwhelming returnees; everyone is on a level playing field.

Here's what TC 2016 would have looked like using this setup:

Crouse-Strome-Marner
Beauvillier-Barzal-Konecny
B. Burke-Stephens-N. Merkley
R. Gropp-J. Harkins-Gauthier
N. Roy

J. Chychrun (UA)-Chabot
J. Lauzon-J. Roy
B. Guhle-N. Juulsen
M. Spencer, N. Meloche

C. Booth
Z. Sawchenko

There are no significant losses; indeed, all of the passengers (Perlini, Virtanen, Fleury, Chartier) and underachievers (Fleury, Sanheim, McKeown, Hickey) are washed out. The goalies could go either way; I don't think they would be all that much better than what Blackwood and MacDonald provided, but then they likely couldn't be worse.

The only exceptions are Point and Hicketts, but neither was so overwhelmingly dominant that you'd scream for them to be included.

One thing that becomes extremely prevalent when limiting birth year in this fashion is just how poor the '97 class was; regardless of how TC 2016 was assembled, there were significant holes. However, you'd hope that a young-and-hungry mentality instilled through this system could help you make up for those gaps in a weak year.

Crouse? He played last year

 

[Get North]

No because you need money to stand out initially. Gotta be on the right travel team from a young age and get that crucial development.

Eventually people will get a chance to put on skates in Canada, there's outdoor rinks outside, inside, in malls, outside shopping centres. A beer league player who has McDavid talent won't go unrecognized even if he is older, development won't hugely impact a McDavid talent player. McDavid could have developed in Europe, U.S.A, Asia, it won't matter because he is just naturally gifted. Development won't turn a average player into McDavid. You can buy an old pair of skates at the flee market for 10$ max, borrow a stick and a puck.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Eventually people will get a chance to put on skates in Canada, there's outdoor rinks outside, inside, in malls, outside shopping centres. A beer league player who has McDavid talent won't go unrecognized even if he is older, development won't hugely impact a McDavid talent player. McDavid could have developed in Europe, U.S.A, Asia, it won't matter because he is just naturally gifted. Development won't turn a average player into McDavid. You can buy an old pair of skates at the flee market for 10$ max, borrow a stick and a puck.

LOL. I guess all that effort and money McDavid and family put in early wasn't necessary...but just for fun what age does he start off with the $10 skates on the pond, to start catching up and passing everyone?

How late could this theoretical McBender have started,and still become the elite talent we see today?

 

[67Cup]

Re Wilson's comments: the main thing we Canadian fans should gripe about is not anything Wilson said but rather the way our team played.

Still, a P R consultant could probably have suggested a better response for Wilson, perhaps something like,"I'm the coach of the US Team. My job is to worry about the way they play, not anyone else."

 

[X66]

To say Canada didn't have enough top end talent is a non point to me.

Biggest reasons Canada lost was undisciplined play, poor special teams and poor goaltending.

Funny thing is, even if one of those 3 were different they'd be in the semi.

But that's hockey.

 

[glue]

I think some of you are just looking at this the wrong way. That was a terrible tournament for Canada on so many regards, writing was on the wall, inspite of that they ALMOST beat Finland which to me was a shocker.

1. Poor Coaching/Coaching staff - I think I lost count of the number of questionable and poor decisions I saw here throughout the tournament - the biggest head scratcher might be the non-pull of the Mackenzie Blackwood when he was clearly struggling after he gave up the game tying 3rd goal in the QF game.
The PK was the worst in the tournament - nuff said.
Not to mention at the end of the day they were simply unable to rally their troops.

2. Some expected leaders didn't lead by example - Virtanen - this guy was more of a negative then a positive and that's a huge problem when he's supposed to be one of your go to guys with NHL experience.
Point - I have to think he was injured, he was literally a no show the entire tournament. Again if his injury was that bad, then they should have taken someone else - so again poor selection.

3. Goaltending - in some of the past years that I can remember, Canada has lost this tournament mainly due to horrendous goaltending. This year atleast goaltending alone was not the sole reason, but it was equally terrible lol

So inspite of so many issues with this team, coaches, its construction etc. we ALMOST beat a very good Finnish team. Canada simply never deserved to win anything at this tournament this year. Hopefully its a learning and they'll be much better next year. Oh and almost forget, Tom Renney's comments exempting the coaches and blaming the players lol, yeah that scares me that he's the president of Hockey Canada, how about suggesting everyone involved was to blame for Canada's failures Tom?

 

[Brock Radunske]

what in the world?

This reminds me of the newspaper headline after Gordon Bombay hit the post on that penalty shot and the Hawks lost the championship.

Hopefully Jake can use this as motivation just like Gordon did and go get his law degree. We might even see Virtanen in the red and white again behind the bench.

 

[Jacob]

Were Blackwood and McDonald really the best goalies Canada could've picked? That's pretty unbelievable to me, that there were no better Canadian goaltenders under the age of 20 than them. Was anyone else hurt?

 

[madmike77]

Were Blackwood and McDonald really the best goalies Canada could've picked? That's pretty unbelievable to me, that there were no better Canadian goaltenders under the age of 20 than them. Was anyone else hurt?

Statistically Blackwood was probably the best. His junior stats this year are excellent.

McDonald you can question a bit more. His stats this year aren't awful by QMJHL standards, but they're not amazing. He looked a lot better last year than this year - although to be fair the team in front of him this year is not good at all. That said, McDonald's stats this year are still far better than Fucale's were last year.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Statistically Blackwood was probably the best. His junior stats this year are excellent.

McDonald you can question a bit more. His stats this year aren't awful by QMJHL standards, but they're not amazing. He looked a lot better last year than this year - although to be fair the team in front of him this year is not good at all. That said, McDonald's stats this year are still far better than Fucale's were last year.

I'd argue that McDonald is a better goaltender than his Q stats show and an infinitely better goaltender than what he displayed at this tournament. He was named the best goaltender of the U18 tournament. The issue I have with Hockey Canada is that they name 2 goaltenders to the roster with the December announcement of the selection camp instead of having 4 of the best compete for 3 roster spots. HC only named a 3rd goaltender to the roster when Blackwood received his 8 game suspension. Hopefully HC will change this policy for next year. It's quite obvious they have to change some things in how they prepare for the tournament and not just the goaltender situation.

 

[Semantics]

IMO Reinhart and Domi were both way more important to Canada last year than McDavid was. This year's Canadian team just didn't have that level of depth.

They were important no doubt, and the best line in the tournament, but without McDavid they would have been a one line team. McDavid pretty much single handedly carried his line to effectively give Canada two #1 lines. Reinhart, Domi, and Duclair did it by committee, McDavid did it on his own.