WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part V) [mod warning in OP]

[ChesterNimitz]

This is important to note. Some players weren't good, but that's the case every year. I can't really single out a specific player (even the goaltenders) or cite lack of work ethic on the team this year. The team was build on a shaky foundation. Beating Finland just would have exposed them to a legitimate beatdown against Sweden in the semi finals.



Well it's unfortunate that you don't like it, but that's the way it looks to me. The complaints about Canadian development are already out there, and they're baseless at the moment. The losses were all reasonable - this team performed horribly.


I'm less pessimistic. No return to the drawing board. They picked a good roster this year, the team just didn't play well together and the coach was horrible. Lowry should never be approached by HC again, but other than that there isn't much of an issue in my opinion.

I've got nothing left to say about this edition of the Canadian WJC team. To channel Belichick... on to 2017.

Not to be a contrarian, I believe the team selected performed about as well as could be expected. They outplayed and out chanced two of the strongest teams in the tournament (U.S. and Finland) and were competitive against a third strong team, the Swedes. We can question some of the player selections; the coaching and the goaltending. It also didn't help that two of the players that Hockey Canada was counting on, Point and Gauthier, were limited in their performance by injury and illness. And we can always blame the hockey gods, who for this tournament seemed to have turned their backs on the Canadian team. This team, in its biggest games, did not get the results that their overall play warranted. In this writer's opinion, the failure of Team Canada can directly be attributed to their lack of elite hockey players, those handful of players whose level of play can overcome the weaknesses of their team and the adversity and bad breaks that all teams encounter. Canada, despite their reputations, did not have any of the 'top dogs' in the tournament. The Finns, on the other hand, have two or three of them and the U.S. have at least one. Some will no doubt argue that Canada possessed these type of game breakers and point to Marner's third period heroics today and Strome's overall offensive contribution. They're good players, no doubt, but from this writer's perspective, they are not game changers. And the absence of such players, whether at the forward or defence position or at goalie, was the root of Canada's failure in this tournament. We just didn't have the player who could make the big play or save when such a play or save could have provided the difference in the outcome of the game.

It is time for Canada to acknowledge that all the major hockey nations are now producing excellent young hockey players and that the talk of Canada being able to send two or three teams to this tournament, that could each compete for a medal, is naïve arrogance. As is becoming quite clear, at this level of competition, unless you can send your best players (or at least most of your best players) making the medal round, let alone winning a gold medal, becomes a daunting task.

 

[Mats13]

Can someone please explain how marner got so much ****? he was your biggest offensive threat all tournament.

That's why, people can deny it all they want. The reason he gets so much **** is because he wears the blue and white maple leaf as well.

As for the tournament, I think we have to look away from the players and look at the coaches. They played favourites and politics and it cost us. Not only that, Lowry is just really stupid, no other way to put it really.

 

[gwh]

Marner plays like punk kid and scored 2 goals before the yesterday's game.

2+2 in 3 games is not enough. Excepted him to be in top5 of tournament scoring after all the "better than Max Domi" hype on this board.

 

[SillyRabbit]

How do we always get stuck with garbage coaches? Reminds me of the Steve Spott debacle.

 

[lawrence]

Marner plays like punk kid and scored 2 goals before the yesterday's game.

2+2 in 3 games is not enough. Excepted him to be in top5 of tournament scoring after all the "better than Max Domi" hype on this board.

the experts on hfboards.com, if enough people say it enough it becomes true all,of a sudden??

This lost garnered the most positive votes, and it speaks the truth.

Just had a chance to watch that game - sheer idiocy, and nothing but sheer idiocy to blame that loss on Virtanen on any level.

Laughable.

The blueline and goaltending were ventilated all night long.

Jake set the tone with some big hits early, a few outstanding takeaways - creating a goal on the forecheck - the best sustained pressure was created by his line, precipitated by him. The other forward lines were a bunch of me-first, all-alone garbage. Extremely annoying performances from Canada's "stars".

So much complaining about Jake taking the team off a potential 5 on 3 - a penalty he drew on the cycle in the first place to put the team on the powerplay.

A pair of soft-ass calls on the young guy in seconds of succession in the 3rd - and yet as much as I love Hicketts, it was his unfortunate delay of game that also contributed to the winning goal, as well as a static kill and a weak five-hole whiff by Blackwood Marner, when not hogging the puck in an arrogant 1 on 5 game, took an idiotic, selfish punch to blow a powerplay in the last five minutes. Hicketts a flying charge that lead to a stupid penalty. Lots of braincramps to go around.

Loved Jake's game. Hit hard. Showed some really crafty puck hounding with some excellent steals. Hard on the cycle. Good strong net presence.

Idiocy to pick him out of a crowd on a team that performed poorly from top to bottom.

Only in a team canada roster thread is there a mod warning that's how pathetic we are as Canadian fan. Jake could have been better, All I see is a roster full of 1 point guys.

Calling it right here, right now, if the Canucks have a another player at makes team canada next year, I guarantee he will be the subject of all the blame if everything does not go teams Canada's way.

Calling it right now.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Only in a team canada roster thread is there a mod warning that's how pathetic we are as Canadian fan. Jake could have been better, All I see is a roster full of 1 point guys.

Calling it right here, right now, if the Canucks have a another player at makes team canada next year, I guarantee he will be the subject of all the blame if everything does not go teams Canada's way.

Calling it right now.

Virtanen is only the scapegoat because y'all cut the traitor from Florida

 

[kelsier]

This article made me laugh today:

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/mmkiekko/art-1451710673325.html

Dylan Strome, one of the best Canadians complained about referees being flop sided. This is the same guy who tried to fish for a fiver on Laine, aimed straight into the dressing room and magically returned on the Power play? The most dynamic recovery I've seen in the hockey as far as I can remember.

Otherwise, one of the best games I've watched in ages. Canada is one heck of a team even at their worst.

 

[Claypool]

This article made me laugh today:

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/mmkiekko/art-1451710673325.html

Dylan Strome, one of the best Canadians complained about referees being flop sided. This is the same guy who tried to fish for a fiver on Laine, aimed straight into the dressing room and magically returned on the Power play? The most dynamic recovery I've seen in the hockey as far as I can remember.

Otherwise, one of the best games I've watched in ages. Canada is one heck of a team even at their worst.

Yeah, Strome and several of the other Canadian players were poor sports when they lost. I thought Joe Hicketts kept his composure. Gave a great interview after the game that sounded professional.

 

[1Gold Standard]

a little OT, but I hope Hockey Canada sends a team to the upcoming WHC in Russia that more resembles last year's Gold Medal winning team than the previous 5 years and 1/4 final exits. After this most despicable and incompetent coaching display that I have ever witnessed at the WJHC, HC owes us at least that....you know, a team that seems to have a game plan and looks as though they can execute a game plan.

After Sochi and last year's success, Hockey Canada talked a lot about the Sochi model going forward and how you build teams for international play and that Sochi was "the gift that keeps on giving", to quote just one Hockey Canada apparatchik. But I have always worried that Hockey Canada would revert back to its default position of 'dumb and dumber' politics. Let's hope Hockey Canada can get back to the Sochi model.

 

[kelsier]

Yeah, Strome and several of the other Canadian players were poor sports when they lost. I thought Joe Hicketts kept his composure. Gave a great interview after the game that sounded professional.

Indeed. I have a lot of respect for Canada and it's hockey culture but that behaviour was just unacceptable and I'm not used to seeing this from the mother land of hockey.

Strome should never had been let back on the ice, but that goes on the refs. I think it would've been the fairest to give Laine a 2+2 and another 2 minute penalty for Strome for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Nevertheless, what a game and I know Canada will be back next year with greater passion and want to redeem themselves from the previous year.

 

[toewsintangibles]

The character on some of these kids seems to be way less than ideal. They get down one goal and they start taking stupid, petulant penalties. What do you think, are the Canadian junior leagues creating an atmosphere that creates these kinds of players?

 

[Tree-hugger]

Dylan Strome, one of the best Canadians complained about referees being flop sided. This is the same guy who tried to fish for a fiver on Laine, aimed straight into the dressing room and magically returned on the Power play? The most dynamic recovery I've seen in the hockey as far as I can remember.

That bothered me too. There's no way of knowing what really happened but I felt Strome was being a bad sport there. And I don't like bad sports all that much.

Canada lost an exceptional showcase of pond hockey and people are ruthlessly beating everyone even remotely related to the team. Could have gone either way.

A special stick tap to the "Virtanen is a double agent" posts. I laughed.

 

[Claypool]

The character on some of these kids seems to be way less than ideal. They get down one goal and they start taking stupid, petulant penalties. What do you think, are the Canadian junior leagues creating an atmosphere that creates these kinds of players?

Starts with the sense of entitlement that has permeated the Canadian culture around hockey since forever. Kids grow up being expected to be the best and finish first in any competition, and that coming up short is unacceptable. Hell, not even 24 hours after the game Don Cherry is on HNIC guaranteeing a gold medal next year.

 

[Pyromaniac]

Starts with the sense of entitlement that has permeated the Canadian culture around hockey since forever. Kids grow up being expected to be the best and finish first in any competition, and that coming up short is unacceptable. Hell, not even 24 hours after the game Don Cherry is on HNIC guaranteeing a gold medal next year.

It is sheer idiocy to predict a gold medal when we have absolutely no idea what the roster will look like a year from now. How many of our 2015 picks will have graduated is a question that no one can answer. I am expecting Strome and Marner in the NHL. Konecny and Barzal could be there as well. We could be icing a roster worse than this year.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Jeez guys. They're 17/18/19 year old kids with a ton of pressure on them. I'm not condoning the behavior, but it doesn't mean they all have character issues and/or have an overactive sense of entitlement. I look back at some of the things I did at that age and shake my head.

I think we sometimes forget they really are still kids and at that age, still have a lot of maturing to do.

 

[86Habs]

I'm less pessimistic. No return to the drawing board. They picked a good roster this year, the team just didn't play well together and the coach was horrible. Lowry should never be approached by HC again, but other than that there isn't much of an issue in my opinion.

I've got nothing left to say about this edition of the Canadian WJC team. To channel Belichick... on to 2017.

A coaching rethink, not necessarily a player/team selection rethink. I'm on the record as saying that the team that was put together was probably the best one we could have (or very close to it). Over the past four years in particular we have had very uneven coaching, ranging from excellent coaching with great personnel (Groulx) to poor coaching with very good personnel (Spott and Lowry obviously). Sutter is somewhere in the middle as it seems to me in 2014 he went back to the same playbook he used successfully in 2006 when building the team, but the personnel just weren't there and some key guys didn't perform as expected.

You raised an idea in a previous post that Hockey Canada should potentially remove coaches from consideration that have players on their CHL teams in contention for roster spots. The implication being to avoid a Spott/Murphy or Lowry/Hicketts going forward. Personally I think this would be a bit too limiting in terms of the available coaching pool in the CHL. I think the issues with nepotism rest largely on the personality of the coach, as historically guys like Babcock and Sutter have brought players from their club teams and managed them appropriately...but obviously they're both high-quality coaches.

Overall I'm not sure what the answer is. I'd like to think Hockey Canada has a process in place to get these guys, but then a guy like Lowry slips through the cracks.

 

[1Gold Standard]

A coaching rethink, not necessarily a player/team selection rethink. I'm on the record as saying that the team that was put together was probably the best one we could have (or very close to it). Over the past four years in particular we have had very uneven coaching, ranging from excellent coaching with great personnel (Groulx) to poor coaching with very good personnel (Spott and Lowry obviously). Sutter is somewhere in the middle as it seems to me in 2014 he went back to the same playbook he used successfully in 2006 when building the team, but the personnel just weren't there and some key guys didn't perform as expected.

You raised an idea in a previous post that Hockey Canada should potentially remove coaches from consideration that have players on their CHL teams in contention for roster spots. The implication being to avoid a Spott/Murphy or Lowry/Hicketts going forward. Personally I think this would be a bit too limiting in terms of the available coaching pool in the CHL. I think the issues with nepotism rest largely on the personality of the coach, as historically guys like Babcock and Sutter have brought players from their club teams and managed them appropriately...but obviously they're both high-quality coaches.

Overall I'm not sure what the answer is. I'd like to think Hockey Canada has a process in place to get these guys, but then a guy like Lowry slips through the cracks.

How long will it take for Hockey Canada to announce that Lowry won't be returning next year? but you never know. Hockey Canada has the arrogance to suggest Lowry deserves a shot at redemption.

 

[MMMFAN]

Marner plays like punk kid and scored 2 goals before the yesterday's game.

2+2 in 3 games is not enough. Excepted him to be in top5 of tournament scoring after all the "better than Max Domi" hype on this board.

Marner is a kid at 18. Not sure what a punk kid is, but if it's a kid with swagger then that's good. By the way Domi played last year as a 19 year old. So let's compare Marner next year at the WJC against Domi. Domi didn't even make it as an 18 year old. Nothing against Domi. He is great, but Marner is special.

 

[Crosbyfan]

How long will it take for Hockey Canada to announce that Lowry won't be returning next year? but you never know. Hockey Canada has the arrogance to suggest Lowry deserves a shot at redemption.

Yeah let's give Lowry another chance. I think long shift, shortened bench, undisciplined hockey is underrated. All he needed was more top end players to make it work, assuming he can recognize which ones they are.

 

[Mike2000z28]

Very strong competition this year and the big boys apparently didn't underperform like some other years. Can't be the best every year. I can agree the rah rah canadian we are the best makes losing that much worse. If you took a more balanced approach you would see the game is just getting much more popular and churning out better talents worldwide. The parity is better than it ever was.

 

[bruins3]

I think i have some ideas for next years world juniors. I have assembled a roster for the next world junior tournament factoring in players being drafted and staying in nhl. I hope this helps somehow. This is a slight tweak to someone elses lineup thoughts too with some players i added instead that inthink are more fitting

FORWARDS:

Pierre-Luc Dubois -- Matthew Barzal -- Travis Konecny

Anthony Beuvillier -- Nolan Patrick -- Zach Senyshyn

Logan Brown -- Michael McLeod -- Julien gauthier

Jansen Harkins -- Mitchell Stephens -- Tyson Jost

Nick Merkley

DEFENCEMEN:

Thomas Chabot -- Noah Juulsen
Jakob Chychrun -- Jeremy Roy
Jeremy Lauzon -- Dante Fabbro
Jake Bean

GOALIES:

Zach Sawchenko
Callum Booth
Carter Hart

 

[Stizzle]

 

[86Habs]

Renney is delusional. When things go bad Hockey Canada closes ranks with the best of them, but statements such as these are not promising in the least. Lowry should have gotten his pink slip when the clock struck 0:00 yesterday.

 

[Blender]

His time with the Oilers must have caused some damage, that is delusional.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Right…but all the other lines leading up to that say otherwise…so do the math one more time, Renney, and see if you can find where you made an obvious error