EspenK
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- Sep 25, 2011
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And what happens if Dubi has a career year and Wennberg and Dano pull a Prout and regress? Could happen. Some here seem to take the most positive view possible with this team.
2015 NHL Draft Thread IV (6/26-7PM, 6/27-10AM)
- Thread starter Samkow
- Start date
And what happens if Dubi has a career year and Wennberg and Dano pull a Prout and regress? Could happen. Some here seem to take the most positive view possible with this team.
I woke up this morning and reviewed the CBJ team as it now stands. I did exactly what RD did (although his was more comprehensive) and wrote down our "young" team. I was floored by our team's
the depth and potential. Kudos to the FO for creating that....inspite of the Mike Reilly debacle! My next thought was to all the 18 year olds who worked so hard to get to the point where they could be considered for the NHL. The scouts have spent countless hours dissecting tape for their strengths and their flaws. I have read reports, but in no way feel close to capable to make their decisions. I would like to take the time to welcome each and every draftee, Zachary Werenski, Gabriel Carlsson, Paul Bittner, Keegan Kolesar, Sam Ruopp, Veeti Vaino, Vladislav Gavrikov and Markus Nutivaara. I congratulate you and look forward to the opportunity to root for you as a member of the Columbus Blue Jackets!
the depth and potential. Kudos to the FO for creating that....inspite of the Mike Reilly debacle! My next thought was to all the 18 year olds who worked so hard to get to the point where they could be considered for the NHL. The scouts have spent countless hours dissecting tape for their strengths and their flaws. I have read reports, but in no way feel close to capable to make their decisions. I would like to take the time to welcome each and every draftee, Zachary Werenski, Gabriel Carlsson, Paul Bittner, Keegan Kolesar, Sam Ruopp, Veeti Vaino, Vladislav Gavrikov and Markus Nutivaara. I congratulate you and look forward to the opportunity to root for you as a member of the Columbus Blue Jackets!
Thought Matty was FA?
Anyway, yours is a rhetorical question I'm sure you know, and you have more armchair GM in your little finger than I have at all, but ill have a wack at it. You've listed 15 players for 12 spots, so 3 gotta go. If Matty indeed not under contract til then, that makes 2.
What's more, per cap concerns, Ollie B, Milano and Bitner will be playing for cheap, and Wennberg, Rychel and Dano if I'm not mistaken will be subject to Jarmo's historically thrifty bridge deals.
A couple guys stand out as players more likely to not finish their contracts, such as Cam, Karlsson, Calvert (unfortunately). I would not be surprised (but am not predicting!) if towards the late stages of his contract Dubi were to be a trade rumor kind of guy.
And finally, the last 3 names on the list are far from NHL roster players, and the 3 before them still have a lot to prove.
So a 2-3 player crunch is not a "glut", especially when 6 of the 15 (almost half) are not at all established.
I personally do not look at your list and think "who can we package?". Instead I think, "finally!"
This is an exercise in futility! For a fair comparison take a roster from three years earlier. 50% of those forwards are now gone! NHL rosters are too fluid to only look at their contract years and decide who will be there even next year.
Well. Certainly not the earth-shattering wow draft I was hoping for. But we also didnt trade Rychel, Anisimov, 2nds, etc to move up a few spots. My biggest fear going into the draft was that we were gonna lose Rychel, Bjorkstrand, Milano just for better draft position - so I'm glad we dodged that bullet.
8 - Werenski - Would not have been my first pick, but I knew we had to at least expect it as a possibility. I'm worried about just about everything in his game outside of his physical attributes and character. I like that he is a very aggressive offensive player, quick to get shots off, a good skater. But I am worried about his hockey IQ. Its a risky pick to me - and it will take a while to pay off - probably at least two years before we see him at all. Clearly he fills a big hole, and if he develops as expected, he will be a big pickup
29 - Carlsson - I had him ranked about where I had Werenski (25-30 range). He is somewhat more of the same (Heatherington, Collins). I see a kid that is a very good passer, excellent skater, excellent athlete. Very quick to react on defense. Should be a very effective player, but not a wower.
This has set up for a big, mean, very mobile group of Werenski-Carlsson-Heatherington-Collins.
Again - I'm not all that high on taking these types of players in the first round, but before this draft, we were asking for a more reliable stay at home type on the NHL team. They are going to make us a frustrating team to play against, but it might be taking several years. Heatherington was drafted in 2013, and I would assume he spends 1-2 years in AHL still too. These guys can be really big building blocks, and have given us a pretty clear identity on the back end. Huge, rangy, intelligent and very athletic.
38 - Bittner - A top 15 player in the draft, and certainly my favorite player that we walked away with. 6'4, but with a 6'8 wing span. Very good shooter, very composed, commited to both ends. Coming into this year I was certain Bittner was going to be a top 5 pick. Picking him up makes me feel a lot better about the first couple picks being on the safer, longer, more boring side. He isnt a driving force behind a line but he is a great complementary player. Will slide into our depth chart right behind Rychel.
58- Stenlund - This guy wasnt on my radar at all, but he's got promise. Looks to have exceptional hands, clocks in at 6'3. More size added from this draft. Adds to the Swedish center factory with Wennberg and Karlsson. Don't know much else about him other than he has sweet shootout moves and some real quick hands.
69 - Kolesar - Key attribute: Hitting ability. Fairly slow skater, but at almost 220, that makes sense that hes not too fleet of foot. He actually has some crafty, deceptive hands. I could see him fitting in with that Moutrey and Anderson group. Only had about 40 points in 65 games (or so, dont have the stats in front of me) but that is on a Seattle group that struggled to score - he only finished behind Gropp, Barzal, and Theodore in scoring. Generally I don't like going for people whose physicality is their primary attritube, but he has some interesting hands and I would be curious to see how his production grows next season.
129 - Ruopp - Dont know much about him other than hes a captain, another 6'3+ player, not much production, but not terrible either. 140 PIMs this year. I'll have to wait and see on him.
141 - Veeeti Vainio - Sweet name - sweet production. Supposed to have a booming shot.
159 - Gavrikov - Russia WJC captain - Another big, mobile, positional defenseman. I actually think he could make it, and fairly soon. I would imagine he stays in Russia for a little while, but he was at least capable of playing in the KHL this year.
189 - Nutivaara - I have no problem with going a little older this late in the game. If you take a Liiga defenseman who is 22 in the 7th round, you are probably fairly close to bringing them over. Youre minimizing the chance that they dont pan out at all, but also limiting room for growth. At pick 189, I am fine with someone who will most likely be solid depth.
Overall grade: C+. Filled some major organizational holes and solidified the teams identity. Walked away with (probably) the largest draft class - and I would think that was our first draft where every prospect was over 6'0.
Successes: Prospect depth has to be at an all-time high. We did not sacrifice countless prospects. We drafted for need while still taking three "priority 1" players. Bittner.
LW: Milano, Rychel, Bittner, Moutrey
C: Wennberg, Karlsson, Stenlund, Chaput, Tynan
RW: Bjorkstrand, Dano, Anderson, Kolesar, Zaar
D: Weresnki, Carlsson, Collins, Heatherington, Madaisky
G: Forsberg, Korpisalo, Dansk
Very rounded - still could use a couple high risk offensive defensmen though, but it is looking deep and solid.
Failures: opportunities lost - whether thats to get a more sure thing in Hanifin, a more dynamic player in Provorov, or a near, nhl-ready powerforward in Rantanen. Taking defensemen in the 1st round without game-breaking skill is still against what my gut is telling me.
Who I wouldve picked (without trading up any more)
8 - Rantanen
29 - Merkley
38 - Bittner/Siegenthaler/Dunn
58 - Dergachyov
69 - Vande Sompel/Malgin
129 - Pilon
141 - Bondra
159 - Aho (SWE)
189 - True
I'll trust some of those D that we took were pretty solid though. We'll see a bit at devo camp
8 - Werenski - Would not have been my first pick, but I knew we had to at least expect it as a possibility. I'm worried about just about everything in his game outside of his physical attributes and character. I like that he is a very aggressive offensive player, quick to get shots off, a good skater. But I am worried about his hockey IQ. Its a risky pick to me - and it will take a while to pay off - probably at least two years before we see him at all. Clearly he fills a big hole, and if he develops as expected, he will be a big pickup
29 - Carlsson - I had him ranked about where I had Werenski (25-30 range). He is somewhat more of the same (Heatherington, Collins). I see a kid that is a very good passer, excellent skater, excellent athlete. Very quick to react on defense. Should be a very effective player, but not a wower.
This has set up for a big, mean, very mobile group of Werenski-Carlsson-Heatherington-Collins.
Again - I'm not all that high on taking these types of players in the first round, but before this draft, we were asking for a more reliable stay at home type on the NHL team. They are going to make us a frustrating team to play against, but it might be taking several years. Heatherington was drafted in 2013, and I would assume he spends 1-2 years in AHL still too. These guys can be really big building blocks, and have given us a pretty clear identity on the back end. Huge, rangy, intelligent and very athletic.
38 - Bittner - A top 15 player in the draft, and certainly my favorite player that we walked away with. 6'4, but with a 6'8 wing span. Very good shooter, very composed, commited to both ends. Coming into this year I was certain Bittner was going to be a top 5 pick. Picking him up makes me feel a lot better about the first couple picks being on the safer, longer, more boring side. He isnt a driving force behind a line but he is a great complementary player. Will slide into our depth chart right behind Rychel.
58- Stenlund - This guy wasnt on my radar at all, but he's got promise. Looks to have exceptional hands, clocks in at 6'3. More size added from this draft. Adds to the Swedish center factory with Wennberg and Karlsson. Don't know much else about him other than he has sweet shootout moves and some real quick hands.
69 - Kolesar - Key attribute: Hitting ability. Fairly slow skater, but at almost 220, that makes sense that hes not too fleet of foot. He actually has some crafty, deceptive hands. I could see him fitting in with that Moutrey and Anderson group. Only had about 40 points in 65 games (or so, dont have the stats in front of me) but that is on a Seattle group that struggled to score - he only finished behind Gropp, Barzal, and Theodore in scoring. Generally I don't like going for people whose physicality is their primary attritube, but he has some interesting hands and I would be curious to see how his production grows next season.
129 - Ruopp - Dont know much about him other than hes a captain, another 6'3+ player, not much production, but not terrible either. 140 PIMs this year. I'll have to wait and see on him.
141 - Veeeti Vainio - Sweet name - sweet production. Supposed to have a booming shot.
159 - Gavrikov - Russia WJC captain - Another big, mobile, positional defenseman. I actually think he could make it, and fairly soon. I would imagine he stays in Russia for a little while, but he was at least capable of playing in the KHL this year.
189 - Nutivaara - I have no problem with going a little older this late in the game. If you take a Liiga defenseman who is 22 in the 7th round, you are probably fairly close to bringing them over. Youre minimizing the chance that they dont pan out at all, but also limiting room for growth. At pick 189, I am fine with someone who will most likely be solid depth.
Overall grade: C+. Filled some major organizational holes and solidified the teams identity. Walked away with (probably) the largest draft class - and I would think that was our first draft where every prospect was over 6'0.
Successes: Prospect depth has to be at an all-time high. We did not sacrifice countless prospects. We drafted for need while still taking three "priority 1" players. Bittner.
LW: Milano, Rychel, Bittner, Moutrey
C: Wennberg, Karlsson, Stenlund, Chaput, Tynan
RW: Bjorkstrand, Dano, Anderson, Kolesar, Zaar
D: Weresnki, Carlsson, Collins, Heatherington, Madaisky
G: Forsberg, Korpisalo, Dansk
Very rounded - still could use a couple high risk offensive defensmen though, but it is looking deep and solid.
Failures: opportunities lost - whether thats to get a more sure thing in Hanifin, a more dynamic player in Provorov, or a near, nhl-ready powerforward in Rantanen. Taking defensemen in the 1st round without game-breaking skill is still against what my gut is telling me.
Who I wouldve picked (without trading up any more)
8 - Rantanen
29 - Merkley
38 - Bittner/Siegenthaler/Dunn
58 - Dergachyov
69 - Vande Sompel/Malgin
129 - Pilon
141 - Bondra
159 - Aho (SWE)
189 - True
I'll trust some of those D that we took were pretty solid though. We'll see a bit at devo camp
I woke up this morning and reviewed the CBJ team as it now stands. I did exactly what RD did (although his was more comprehensive) and wrote down our "young" team. I was floored by our team's
The crazy thing is that (my list) isn't even taking into account other guys who may improve over the next few years like that player who won't be named did.
Plus, you need more than 12 forwards in a year. I mean, how many played for us last year?
50%? Is that really true if you restrict yourself to rfas and those on long term deals, as espenk did?
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
i really wish we would have grabbed Pilon at 129...and Roupp is a HUGE question mark...but I liked most of the picks...also would have liked us to take a G...but not a huge deal, I just subscribe to the "take a goalie each year" philosophy...can't wait for camp this week...
CBJSlash
Registered User
If we can develop Werenski into more of a Ryan Suter than a Jack Johnson he could be a major player. It will be very interesting to see how he starts the next year. I would expect to see him become a lot better in his own zone with the year under his belt.
The reports I read are that he's a smart player and smart players figure out the three zones. He's sold me on his skills. More optimistic than I was on him a few weeks ago.
The reports I read are that he's a smart player and smart players figure out the three zones. He's sold me on his skills. More optimistic than I was on him a few weeks ago.
Crede777
Deputized
- Dec 16, 2009
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The exciting thing about Werenski is his youth. We basically get an extra year of development with him.
I get the feeling that he will be very different at the end of this coming season from what he is right now. And at the end of this coming season, he will only be a bit older than some of the 2016 draftees.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Does anybody have any idea who we might see in the pros in '15-'16 (either straight to the NHL or in the minor leagues in either Cleveland or wherever the ECHL affiliate happens to be)?
alphafox
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2011
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Complete hearsay, but I was talking to someone who has been a michigan hockey fan for a long time and he described Werenski as "a smart Jack Johnson." My excitement for Werenski is the highest it's ever been after hearing that. I really think that Werenski-Murray will be the next great pairing in the NHL provided 1. they can stay healthy and 2. we can sign Werenski.
As far as Carlsson and Bittner go I think that they provide incredible value. Both are enormous players that can skate way better than they have any right too, having players like this is becoming the key to winning in the NHL. Carlsson looks like a good bet to become a a #3 shutdown guy that could potentially have a much higher ceiling (i.e. Suter) if he can find some offense to go along with what is already and NHL caliber game in his own end. I really look forward to a pairing of Carlsson-Collins. Similarly Bittner is another high floor-high ceiling pick. In all honesty he really reminds me of Jenner except with much a more impressive skating and offensive toolset. Bittner is actually one of my darkhorses to make the team this year (to be fair I don't think a single prospect is making this team out of training camp, but there are a few guys like Bittner that I think could force the team to give them a chance)
As far as Carlsson and Bittner go I think that they provide incredible value. Both are enormous players that can skate way better than they have any right too, having players like this is becoming the key to winning in the NHL. Carlsson looks like a good bet to become a a #3 shutdown guy that could potentially have a much higher ceiling (i.e. Suter) if he can find some offense to go along with what is already and NHL caliber game in his own end. I really look forward to a pairing of Carlsson-Collins. Similarly Bittner is another high floor-high ceiling pick. In all honesty he really reminds me of Jenner except with much a more impressive skating and offensive toolset. Bittner is actually one of my darkhorses to make the team this year (to be fair I don't think a single prospect is making this team out of training camp, but there are a few guys like Bittner that I think could force the team to give them a chance)
alphafox
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2011
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Out of this draft the only person I could see potentially making the team might be Bittner. Carlsson and Werenski need time to develop their games in the offensive and defenseive zone respectively, and the rest of the picks appear to be homerun swings that are going to need time to develop.
As far as out of the prospect pool I think we have a chance to see Bjorkstrand, Rychel, Heatherington and Karlsson make runs at roster spots, with Bjorkstrand (top 6 RW) and Karlsson (4th line Center) being the most likely to make the team out of training camp.
TheOllieC
cajun filet
Is this a legit concern among people on here? There's honestly no reason to be worried.
A. He's already played a year at Michigan. He's on the fast track. He's not going to the USHL or BCHL then going to college.
B. He really just needs one more year at scUM. Two at the most. He's not a late bloomer or someone who needs a long time to refine their skills.
C.
alphafox
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2011
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Is this a legit concern among people on here? There's honestly no reason to be worried.
A. He's already played a year at Michigan. He's on the fast track. He's not going to the USHL or BCHL then going to college.
B. He really just needs one more year at scUM. Two at the most. He's not a late bloomer or someone who needs a long time to refine their skills.
C.
I can't speak for everyone here obviously, but the college loophole scares the crap out of me, and not just because of the recent Reilly trauma. Columbus isn't exactly a #1 destination for guys and the franchise still has a lot to prove. The option to get a free college education and then choose where they will play can be a big lure even in the face of all that entry level money. Do I think Werenski is going to walk, no, but I don't completely disregard the possibility.
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EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Interesting thread on the mains about teams' under 25. Bunch of them with pretty impressive pools of young talent.
CBJSlash
Registered User
As far as I can tell, Werenski isn't a spoiled rich kid. He'll sign his contract within 2 years.
I'd love to know how many prospects have actually done this? On top of that, how many of them were 1st round picks? My guess is the number for both is REALLY small.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Based on nhlnumbers.com 2012-2013 forward roster we had RJ Umberger, Vinny Prospal, Derek McKenzie, Marian Gaborik, Colton Gilles, Mark Letestu and Blake Comeau. One half of our forward roster.
My point is the roster is likely to change greatly from year to year. It might change within the next week (Free Agency) or in pre season. I too would like an addition on the defense, but am willing to allow the process to flow rather than force something if it is not there. This team is headed in the right direction IMO.
Nanabijou
Booooooooooone
The whole Hamilton thing still doesn't make sense to me. I'm not a huge fan of him, so I'm not upset we didn't get him and I certainly don't think he's worth 7+ mil a year right now.
This was in Elliotte Freidman's 30 thoughts today...
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...serves-better/
If that's true, his initial ask was around $45 mill for 6 years (although he might have asked for less term).
It just seems like Sweeney panicked with the offer sheet threat and then tried to beat that by getting 2015 draft picks instead of having 2016 picks as OS compensation. But then, when the subsequent supposed trade with Arizona fell through, it looked like their draft list hadn't been updated to account for having 3 picks so high. Maybe it's a brilliant plan, but it seemed like they were making rash decisions that they weren't fully prepared for.
Some on here rag on Jarmo for how he handled Joey last year, but I still like bridge contracts and how it was done here. I still don't get why Sweeney didn't play hardball with Hamilton on a bridge. If Chiarelli gives an offer sheet, you match, clear a few contracts if needed (including the Lucic trade that was done) and then offer sheet every Oiler possible over the next 5 years.
This was in Elliotte Freidman's 30 thoughts today...
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...serves-better/
If that's true, his initial ask was around $45 mill for 6 years (although he might have asked for less term).
It just seems like Sweeney panicked with the offer sheet threat and then tried to beat that by getting 2015 draft picks instead of having 2016 picks as OS compensation. But then, when the subsequent supposed trade with Arizona fell through, it looked like their draft list hadn't been updated to account for having 3 picks so high. Maybe it's a brilliant plan, but it seemed like they were making rash decisions that they weren't fully prepared for.
Some on here rag on Jarmo for how he handled Joey last year, but I still like bridge contracts and how it was done here. I still don't get why Sweeney didn't play hardball with Hamilton on a bridge. If Chiarelli gives an offer sheet, you match, clear a few contracts if needed (including the Lucic trade that was done) and then offer sheet every Oiler possible over the next 5 years.
