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WJC: 2015 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)

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True Hockey Fan said:
What's your point? That with Domi we would've won gold?
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It's the mentality. When you have the talent at your disposal, you should use it. And lately, we've been losing due to a lack of talent/scoring. That's why people are pointing out these cuts.

This year, I think there is enough high-end talent that the loss of Dal Colle won't hurt much. Also, I believe the bottom sixers are much better than in previous years. But I can't believe they would cut Dal Colle without giving him another chance against Sweden.
 
I was surprised that MDC was cut, but I can't argue with it. Crouse, Ritchie, Virtanen and Gauthier all had a better game against Russia.
 
MisterDB said:
For those that have not seen Crouse play beside these games here is the deal on the kid. Do not judge him by his age but by his eveyday ability on the ice. Yes I am a Frontenacs season ticket holder and have seen him play. don't say i have rose coloured glasses on because I am one of the bigger critics of the teamHe is a heart and soul player for this team. He is big but what people don't realize is he is fast, a great set of wheels and good hands, can muck in the corners or in front of the net, can outskate a lot of D and has done so. Scoring this year in Kingston is down, way down but that is because of the "new" defensive system employed by a new coach, which is part of the reason offensive numbers for him are lower then others. Terrible hockey by the Frontenacs so far by the way. Crouse is extremely coachable and has been groomed in and for international hockey. Bottom line is he plays beyond his young age, and yes he is one heck of a good kid.
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I buy it.

If picking these kids was as easy as looking at hockeydb some of you guys would make hall of fame coaches.
 
Nash said:
Team Canada's designated 4 line system has been flawed for years at the junior level. At a best on best tournament, you don't bring role players. You use your best players, identify those among them that have great two way play, and get them to take on a role they normally wouldn't for their club team.

At the Olympics, we use Toews and Bergeron to shut teams down. Rick Nash gets used similarly to grind opponents down. Because we have players like this, that are capable of playing D while still be highly skilled and able to score, it allows to bring more skilled players.

Last year, Canada's grinding line with Gauthier, Anderson and Leier was terrible. How much better could that squad have been if Team Canada had followed what the Olympic team does and cast Horvat and Lazar in two way grinding line roles...and brought 3 talented players to form another scoring line rather than the 3 I mentioned.

For a nation that is as deep in prospects at this age level as we are, we don't use that to our advantage. Bringing 4 top lines of players (with guys like Lazar cast to check) would have the other teams worrying about defending against us rather than us hoping our top two lines can click and provide enough offense for the team.
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You use team Canada's olympic roster as an example of how a team should be built but your argument falls on itself when you fail to realize that both teams were built the same way. Giroux is a better player offensively than toews and Bergeron, and is a better player in general than bergeron Imo. But with your logic he should have been there over 1 of them, but he wasn't. Why? Because Bergeron and toews can shutdown top lines better than he can. As for lazar being a checking center. He's going to be the go to guy on the team when someone needs to step up. Minimizing his role to only one is silly. He'll bring his line into the game, and having a line of lazar mcdavid and fabbri all involved in the game is pretty damn valuable. Team canada's world junior team has been built pretty well the same way for as long as it's been around and it hasn't failed in the past(pre-drought). Maybe other countries are just getting better at hockey?
 
foxygen said:
Was at the game last night. Guys who stood out in a good way: Duclair, Domi, Virtanen, Morin, Morrissey, Paul. Was not a fan of the latter (Paul) being included so late but he really impressed me last night. Kind of plays a Jamie Benn game as a big guy who just has the puck on a string...although I doubt he will play that role in this tournament. Duclair is going to be a gamebreaker for us, he is just too good for most of these guys. Virtanen absolutely rag dolled one of the Russian D-men last night, I'd never seen him play before but once I saw that I knew exactly why the Canucks coveted him so highly...just a beast of a man-child. Like many I am not a fan of the Dal Colle cut, he played a solid possession game last night and I don't particularly understand why Gauthier was taken over him.

I think we have a very skilled team, easily up there with the tournament's best. Needless to say, though, I continue to be baffled by HC's undying need to build 4 line, pro-style teams for a junior tournament. Take the skilled guys and mold them into the roles you need - these kids are so good and have been for such a long time, they can all skate/hit/shoot. I'm sure if Groulx said to Dal Colle...hey you need to play an intense, physical game and haunt the other team's top line, he would be able to do it. Just in case anyone jumps on me...I am not an Isles fan. But it's literally inconceivable to imagine the 5th ov pick getting cut on any other team in this tournament; the guy would be the top scorer on most of the other teams were he born of a different nationality. I hope we can do some good things over the next few week, but I do not blame the players if they are not able to....the selection process is truly, deeply flawed.
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Big fan of Sam Morin and glad he made the team. Coming back from his injury had me a little worried. How did Lawson Crouse look? He is one player that I hope the Flyers have interest in.
Thanks
 
My issue with Gauthier being selected over Dal Colle is that Canada already has an excellent defensive C in Nick Paul. He can thrive in that role if you ask him to while also providing superior offense which would inherently decrease the amount of time the 4th line even has to spend on defense.

Domi - Reinhart - Duclair
Fabbri - McDavid - Virtanen
Dal Colle - Lazar - Point
Ritchie - Paul - Crouse
Dickinson
 
This team is quite a bit more talented than last years even if you think they left talent on the table.

Why take a top scorer from last year and make him a guy that concentrates first on checking.

You'll see some teams match best on best with mcdavid. You think other countries have depth players that are high enough in talent to just check mcdavids line?

I don't see Sweden, Russia and USA using 4-6th rounders to try and contain our top line.

More likely to see eichels line vs our best.
 
The thing is about lazar is you'll see him active defensively like a center even when he's playing the wing.

One of my favourite things about lazar is that when he's playing well, and I expect he'll almost always be playing well among juniors, he's always on top of the play at both ends.

That wil be very useful when this line plays top talent from other teams.
 
People have an issue with Gauthier making the team, but no one has an issue with Lawson Crouse making the team. He is a 17 year old kid that literally has 16 points in 24 games and doesn't bring high end anything except size. No high end offense, no high end defense. Sure he's solid all around but he should never have been invited. Especially when they never even gave exceptional talents like Strome and Marner invites. Some people also are thinking he could go top 5 in the draft lmao. I'd absolutely love to see a team with a top 5 pick in a great draft year like this, waste it on Lawson Crouse.
 
Kulemon said:
People have an issue with Gauthier making the team, but no one has an issue with Lawson Crouse making the team. He is a 17 year old kid that literally has 16 points in 24 games and doesn't bring high end anything except size. No high end offense, no high end defense. Sure he's solid all around but he should never have been invited. Especially when they never even gave exceptional talents like Strome and Marner invites. Some people also are thinking he could go top 5 in the draft lmao. I'd absolutely love to see a team with a top 5 pick in a great draft year like this, waste it on Lawson Crouse.
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I was wondering how a guy like Crouse even got invited to the squad.....then I found out it was because he put up 6 goals in 5 games at the Ivan Hlinka, and I think we all know that Team Canada.....let's just say they don't forget.

I dunno, am I crazy to think there wasn't a 19 year old somewhere in Canada who could've done his job? I didn't see anything special about him yesterday.
 
EvoLu7ioN said:
My issue with Gauthier being selected over Dal Colle is that Canada already has an excellent defensive C in Nick Paul. He can thrive in that role if you ask him to while also providing superior offense which would inherently decrease the amount of time the 4th line even has to spend on defense.

Domi - Reinhart - Duclair
Fabbri - McDavid - Virtanen
Dal Colle - Lazar - Point
Ritchie - Paul - Crouse
Dickinson
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Paul looked good offensively yesterday but it wasn't the same story in his own zone..
 
Kulemon said:
People have an issue with Gauthier making the team, but no one has an issue with Lawson Crouse making the team. He is a 17 year old kid that literally has 16 points in 24 games and doesn't bring high end anything except size. No high end offense, no high end defense. Sure he's solid all around but he should never have been invited. Especially when they never even gave exceptional talents like Strome and Marner invites. Some people also are thinking he could go top 5 in the draft lmao. I'd absolutely love to see a team with a top 5 pick in a great draft year like this, waste it on Lawson Crouse.
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Let me just say this- i am not as intelligent as the Hockey Canada brass, however during this Gold Medal Drought there have been many games over the past 5 years, when Canada was literally dying on the ice to get a goal, and never could buy a goal. You win by putting pucks in the net, the last time i checked. If this team does not win Gold or at least Medal (the bare minimum), heads definitely need to be rolled.

First of all- Strome and Marner are the two leading scorers in the OHL and great talents. They merited an invite based on their play alone this year, and it was a joke they were not even selected to the preliminary roster. You never leave the top two scorers in the OHL without an invite. They have been tremendous this year.

Secondly- just like last year, i am still puzzled how Canada learned nothing from last year, and basically named the two goaltenders right off the bat. You leave a guy like Tristan Jarry home, when you should have at least invited him to compete with a starting job with Fucale. Fucale did not get it done last year, and did not look like Patrick Roy last year. I know the apologists are going to say that Canada had four goalies into camp two years ago and failed- but during the 14 year Medal Streak, Canada never just named their two goalies for the tournament right off the bat.

Thirdly- i am just puzzled how you can not give a guy like Dal Colle one more game to show himself. I am puzzled how you can cut a guy who is averaging 2 points a game in the OHL, who has great skill, in favour of other guys who might have the "grit" but not the skill. I am the guy who does not mind have 4 great scoring lines. I never bought the "Hockey Model" of having a gritty checking line. I am all for taking the superior hockey talent out there, and giving them the extra responsibility of killing penalites, etc., much like Ric Nash did in the 2010 Olympics.

Anyways, if Canada fails again this year, heads definitely need to be rolled. Still hard to believe that this year's Team Canada has no Tristan Jarry as one of the two goalies, and skilled guys like Dal Colle, Strome and Marner are not on the team, but other guys with the "Canadian Grit" have been selected. That Canadian Grit has not gotten it done the last 5 years, since in so many close games when Canada needed that one goal and failed to get it- there have been always second guessing why superior talent was left home. Fucale did not get it done last year, and i am just hoping it was not a mistake to name him the starter again without no competition.
 
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When you have the chance to take heavy players that aren't scoring a point per game over a player that is scoring 2 points per game, you just gotta do it.
 
The only game or practice I saw was yeasterday, but Dal Colle was clearly one of Canada's worst forwards in that game. Very weak on the puck and constantly taking poor shots into shin pads. I don't think his game is that well suited to wing either. He looks like a natural center.
 
EvoLu7ioN said:
My issue with Gauthier being selected over Dal Colle is that Canada already has an excellent defensive C in Nick Paul. He can thrive in that role if you ask him to while also providing superior offense which would inherently decrease the amount of time the 4th line even has to spend on defense.

Domi - Reinhart - Duclair
Fabbri - McDavid - Virtanen
Dal Colle - Lazar - Point
Ritchie - Paul - Crouse
Dickinson
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Missing Petan, who will actually be a key player on the team this year. He's also a very good defensive player.
 
"You win by putting pucks in the net, the last time i checked."

That is half of it yeah.

You actually win by putting more pucks in the net than your opponent.
 
2 pre-tourney games to go and with cuts already made, the chances are Ritchie will do something stupid (like he normally does) and incur a 2-3 game suspension and hopefully forcing HC's hand into dropping him before they officially register the roster on the 25th. fingers crossed.
 
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