HarrisonFord
President of the Drew Doughty Fan Club
Remember when Giroux didn't make the Olympic team but Bergeon did? It's about ROLES
WJC: 2015 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)
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Remember when Giroux didn't make the Olympic team but Bergeon did? It's about ROLES
The Winter Soldier
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- Apr 4, 2011
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Leaving Dal Colle off the team was a mistake IMO.
If Canada does not win gold and lack of scoring is the reason, the second guessing will begin.
I am a Leafs fan first, but I would not have had Gauthier on this team. I am a Team Canada fan. He looks the same as last year, and last year we had trouble scoring.
Not a fan of some of the picks.
If Canada does not win gold and lack of scoring is the reason, the second guessing will begin.
I am a Leafs fan first, but I would not have had Gauthier on this team. I am a Team Canada fan. He looks the same as last year, and last year we had trouble scoring.
Not a fan of some of the picks.
VanNistelrooy
Registered User
You are kind of missing the point as well. Gauthier should be competing against Lazar as our two way centre, which is a slam dunk for Lazar.
I'm not making a case for MDC. There were plenty of talented players not even in camp who should have been competing for a third scoring line role in the first place.
For years Canada had a stupid 2 scoring lines, 1 checking line and 1 energy line blueprint. It's a flawed model when half the forwards you bring aren't there to provide offense, and most years aren't capable of providing it when facing international competition.
Using this model allows every other nation to focus solely on shutting down our two top lines, and frees them to push the pace against the other two inferior ones. Canada starts out handicapping half our potential offense every year. It's ludicrous to use this model when Canada is capable of icing 4 highly talented lines, all with the ability of pushing the pace of the game.
This is especially infuriating when every year there are players available like Lazar or Horvat, in recent years, that can both defend as well as any one way defender, yet still push possession and offense.
199991
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- Dec 3, 2012
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Exactly, he has been unbelievable all year long, offensively and defensively, with Rimouski.
Evolu7ion
#firelindenning
For some reason Team Canada always seems to be more reactive than proactive when designing its jr team. They bring players for defensive situations - grinding other teams top forwards, killing penalties, playing strong in their own end. This is a flawed way of thinking when you have the best pool of players available out of any team. While I agree you must have enough players that are competent killing penalties and defending and banging, the goal should be to create a team that simply dominates the game with size and skill and speed, spends most of the game in the offensive zone, draws the majority of the penalties. Stop worrying about what happens when we take a penalty and start worrying about creating a team that's going to draw the majority of them. Stop worrying about how we are going to defend the other teams top talent and worry about bringing superior players that forces the other team to design their gameplay on how to defend us.
leafsfan2point0
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- Jun 8, 2011
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I was at the game last night and I was impressed with Canada's effort. I was sitting beside Lawson crouses billet family and they are very proud of him. Apparently he's a great kid. Anyways, a lot of you guys are arguing about who made it and who didn't.. This group is definitely good enough to win it all, it's going to come down to goaltending. I'm not sure what fucale is listed as but he looked small and nervous. You can just sense Russia knew all they needed was one shot.. Hopefully he picks it up and/or Comrie is better
I'm one of Hicketts' biggest fans but I would be very surprised (but delighted) if he got an A. And I think he will start in the top 4
The Winter Soldier
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Last year we left Domi off the team, this year we leave Dal Colle off.
Guess the lesson of last year was not learned. Cherry makes sense at times, when he said we are the only nation that doesn't bring their most talented players.
Canada is deep in talent, it is something we should exploit not outsmart ourselves by shooting ourselves in the foot.
Guess the lesson of last year was not learned. Cherry makes sense at times, when he said we are the only nation that doesn't bring their most talented players.
Canada is deep in talent, it is something we should exploit not outsmart ourselves by shooting ourselves in the foot.
covfefe
Zoltan Poszar's Burner
- Feb 5, 2014
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Was at the game last night. Guys who stood out in a good way: Duclair, Domi, Virtanen, Morin, Morrissey, Paul. Was not a fan of the latter (Paul) being included so late but he really impressed me last night. Kind of plays a Jamie Benn game as a big guy who just has the puck on a string...although I doubt he will play that role in this tournament. Duclair is going to be a gamebreaker for us, he is just too good for most of these guys. Virtanen absolutely rag dolled one of the Russian D-men last night, I'd never seen him play before but once I saw that I knew exactly why the Canucks coveted him so highly...just a beast of a man-child. Like many I am not a fan of the Dal Colle cut, he played a solid possession game last night and I don't particularly understand why Gauthier was taken over him.
I think we have a very skilled team, easily up there with the tournament's best. Needless to say, though, I continue to be baffled by HC's undying need to build 4 line, pro-style teams for a junior tournament. Take the skilled guys and mold them into the roles you need - these kids are so good and have been for such a long time, they can all skate/hit/shoot. I'm sure if Groulx said to Dal Colle...hey you need to play an intense, physical game and haunt the other team's top line, he would be able to do it. Just in case anyone jumps on me...I am not an Isles fan. But it's literally inconceivable to imagine the 5th ov pick getting cut on any other team in this tournament; the guy would be the top scorer on most of the other teams were he born of a different nationality. I hope we can do some good things over the next few week, but I do not blame the players if they are not able to....the selection process is truly, deeply flawed.
I think we have a very skilled team, easily up there with the tournament's best. Needless to say, though, I continue to be baffled by HC's undying need to build 4 line, pro-style teams for a junior tournament. Take the skilled guys and mold them into the roles you need - these kids are so good and have been for such a long time, they can all skate/hit/shoot. I'm sure if Groulx said to Dal Colle...hey you need to play an intense, physical game and haunt the other team's top line, he would be able to do it. Just in case anyone jumps on me...I am not an Isles fan. But it's literally inconceivable to imagine the 5th ov pick getting cut on any other team in this tournament; the guy would be the top scorer on most of the other teams were he born of a different nationality. I hope we can do some good things over the next few week, but I do not blame the players if they are not able to....the selection process is truly, deeply flawed.
ShameOnYouZidlicky
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Only changes I would make would be Dickinson and MDC over Gauthier and Ritchie. I feel like Ritchie is a guy who can cost us the tournament with his idiotic play and Dickinson and Paul are similar players to Gauthier but are better skaters and are better offensively. Gauthier does bring size however...we have a lot of smaller forwards on the team this year.
The Winter Soldier
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There are a few questionable decisions this and last year. Hockey Canada, not sure what they are thinking these days?
Not if he plays the way he played last night (now I know that was with OHL refs and not international ones), but he stayed out of the box and was physical and created with his linemates.
Because building a team to have only success off the rush is a recipe for success? Try harder
covfefe
Zoltan Poszar's Burner
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Ritchie was one of the more invisible players last night, relative to the rest of the guys who got enough icetime to generate some pace.
I strongly believe the top 3 lines will play 85% of the game and they are absolutely stacked.
for all the ppl moaning about Gauthier ... he will not be playing the minutes that he did on Fridays game and we will see the change as soon as sunday once they set their final lines and all that.
the 3 lines can be rolled while having the 4th line sub in every once and a while, they proved effective so far as their puck possession has been great, and that's all we will really need from them.
I cant see the top 9 not producing enough to put us in a position where we lost a tournament because we didn't take MDC over Gauthier/crouse etc..
for all the ppl moaning about Gauthier ... he will not be playing the minutes that he did on Fridays game and we will see the change as soon as sunday once they set their final lines and all that.
the 3 lines can be rolled while having the 4th line sub in every once and a while, they proved effective so far as their puck possession has been great, and that's all we will really need from them.
I cant see the top 9 not producing enough to put us in a position where we lost a tournament because we didn't take MDC over Gauthier/crouse etc..
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Hawks!
Because of the poor reffing. He wouldn't have if it was the IIHF refs. Even Ferraro pointed that out.
Don't know why people are carrying on about Gauthier. He and MDC don't play the same position. The choice didn't come down to the two of them. More perplexing is why they would have cut MDC and kept Ritchie. It's Ritchie that should have been cut, not Gauthier.
Gauthier is fine so long as his playing time is limited.
Leaving Giroux was a mistake too and I heard thousands of "that's brutal, we won't even medal". Lol. Here we go again.
MisterDB
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For those that have not seen Crouse play beside these games here is the deal on the kid. Do not judge him by his age but by his eveyday ability on the ice. Yes I am a Frontenacs season ticket holder and have seen him play. don't say i have rose coloured glasses on because I am one of the bigger critics of the teamHe is a heart and soul player for this team. He is big but what people don't realize is he is fast, a great set of wheels and good hands, can muck in the corners or in front of the net, can outskate a lot of D and has done so. Scoring this year in Kingston is down, way down but that is because of the "new" defensive system employed by a new coach, which is part of the reason offensive numbers for him are lower then others. Terrible hockey by the Frontenacs so far by the way. Crouse is extremely coachable and has been groomed in and for international hockey. Bottom line is he plays beyond his young age, and yes he is one heck of a good kid.
leafsfuture
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My issue with the way we contruct our JUNIOR teams is that we try and mimic our Olympic style selection. As several posters have aptly pointed out, not only is this a bad idea, but they dont even do it properly.
1. Junior hockey is not mens hockey. To simplify things, at the junior level, these kids are going to make way more turnovers than in an Olympic level. There is not a collection of 22 junior aged players who could play the way Team Canada did in Sochi giving up only 3 goals It will never happen. These are kids. While they are skilled, they are emotional and lacking experience in ways that only age can change them
2. Our "role players" in recent Olympics have been -- Patrice Bergeron, Rick Nash, Patrick Marleau, Brendan Morrow, Mike Richards. While they certainly arent Canada's top point producers, all of them have been elite scorers in the NHL. All of them have at least scored 30 goals and 70 points in the NHL. Thats high level scoring. Compare that to some plugs Canada has taken -- Anthony Camara, Josh Anderson, yes Frederik Gauthier (ill get back to him). Even in 09 when we won we had Stefan Della Rovere and Patrice Cormier. These guys are not on the same relative skill level as a Bergeron or a Nash
3. Back to Gauthier -- I think of the guys we saw yesterday, he does deserve to be on the team. He does bring an element which we need. THAT BEING SAID, as a Leafs fan, if I could choose my own team, from all the players in junior, he wouldnt make it. I would prefer to have guys like Lazar and Duclar in those roles, while also contributing on the PP and PK. That way, we can open up our bottom 6 for more skill gamebreakers, who could be called into action if our top 6 goes dry (which happened last 2 years)
Point is, Lazar and Duclar, along with a Virtanen are guys who can physically dominate. They are skill guys, but also have the ability to fill the roles of traditional bottom 6ers. It doesnt mean they play in the bottom 6, but rather fill the role of both scoring and checking.
1. Junior hockey is not mens hockey. To simplify things, at the junior level, these kids are going to make way more turnovers than in an Olympic level. There is not a collection of 22 junior aged players who could play the way Team Canada did in Sochi giving up only 3 goals It will never happen. These are kids. While they are skilled, they are emotional and lacking experience in ways that only age can change them
2. Our "role players" in recent Olympics have been -- Patrice Bergeron, Rick Nash, Patrick Marleau, Brendan Morrow, Mike Richards. While they certainly arent Canada's top point producers, all of them have been elite scorers in the NHL. All of them have at least scored 30 goals and 70 points in the NHL. Thats high level scoring. Compare that to some plugs Canada has taken -- Anthony Camara, Josh Anderson, yes Frederik Gauthier (ill get back to him). Even in 09 when we won we had Stefan Della Rovere and Patrice Cormier. These guys are not on the same relative skill level as a Bergeron or a Nash
3. Back to Gauthier -- I think of the guys we saw yesterday, he does deserve to be on the team. He does bring an element which we need. THAT BEING SAID, as a Leafs fan, if I could choose my own team, from all the players in junior, he wouldnt make it. I would prefer to have guys like Lazar and Duclar in those roles, while also contributing on the PP and PK. That way, we can open up our bottom 6 for more skill gamebreakers, who could be called into action if our top 6 goes dry (which happened last 2 years)
Point is, Lazar and Duclar, along with a Virtanen are guys who can physically dominate. They are skill guys, but also have the ability to fill the roles of traditional bottom 6ers. It doesnt mean they play in the bottom 6, but rather fill the role of both scoring and checking.
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