Probably because folks like yourself (leafs fans) and some francophone posters feel the need to stick up for him at every turn.
WJC: 2015 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)
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Probably because folks like yourself (leafs fans) and some francophone posters feel the need to stick up for him at every turn.
Cool, so Jake makes one bad play and you "hate him" but Gauthier makes bad plays (offensively) on the majority of shifts for the past 5 games and we're all "haters" for pointing it out?
I get it. Our fanbase criticizes your prospect so you have to "get us back" by crapping on ours. But the reality is Jake has played well for the majority of the tournament. He's been asked to play a role he's not used to (unlike Gauthier) and has done so very effectively. Ya he absolutely should have passed the puck there and if you watched his next shift he flipped a no look backhand pass to McDavid in transition to send him in on net (where Fabbri peeled off early and didn't get the pass). I wouldn't let one poor decision cloud my entire view of a player. And while I'm sure you think we are doing the same to Gauthier, remember the difference between "one play" and "most plays". But to be fair, Gauths did have a solid game on face offs and PKing. Provided he continues to do that while having limited 5 on 5 minutes, I think the complaining about him will die down.
Was wondering when you were going to turn your Gauthier defending to hate for another. That's the second step to accepting the truth.
So the problem is not the irrational criticism but the questioning of it.
OK....
Gauthier is offensively challenged at this level (for Team Canada) and has bobbled the puck quite a lot. He also has had some balance issues....
He has also been the best faceoff guy in the tourney and a main cog in the best PK (so far).
He's a role player that is performing as expected and I'm glad he's on the team.
The fact he is getting so much heat and the exclusion of Fleury for certain players isn't is a bit puzzling.
Watching his game against Germany I kept thinking "that is exactly what Evander Kane would do..."
Yes he is fast, strong and talented. He is a shoot first, second and third option kind of player.
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
That's an incredibly accurate description of what I've seen in Virtanen's game as well. Having watched Kane since the Jets arrived in Winnipeg I can say that he is both a very valuable and often a very frustrating player. Kane and Virtanen both impact the game in a lot of ways so you can't dwell on the instances of tunnel vision and bad decision making. Let's be honest if either of those guys had high end hockey sense and vision to go along with their physical tools they would have been #1 OA picks not #4 and #6 they aren't going to be perfect so people with unrealistic expectations need to adjust them or be perpetually disappointed.
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Seen it before.
One: I never eluded to no impact just said it is minor. In that people over exaggerate the impact. It is still real and helps teams win. Just teams can control and lose faceoff battle.
Two: there are some flaws in this work... I'll just give two examples
Pettigrew is strictly looking at correlation not causation, which would be looking at impact on goal and shot differentials. Should teams try to shoot less and hit less due to this data?
He discusses shot metrics in regards to probability of winning that same game when shot metrics are used due to their predictions of future win probabilities.
PS I'm well aware of how faceoffs impact the game in a first hand sense:
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014...ization-an-introduction-to-a-new-use-in-corsi
If you want some work on looking at the causation impact from faceoffs:
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2011...offensive-zone-faceoff-even-strength-vs-power
Edit: remember I'm not commenting on Gauthier but rather the false idea that you *have to* control faceoffs to control the game.
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So the problem is not the irrational criticism but the questioning of it.
OK....
Gauthier is offensively challenged at this level (for Team Canada) and has bobbled the puck quite a lot. He also has had some balance issues....
He has also been the best faceoff guy in the tourney and a main cog in the best PK (so far).
He's a role player that is performing as expected and I'm glad he's on the team.
The fact he is getting so much heat and the exclusion of Fleury for certain players isn't is a bit puzzling.
It all depends on your definition of irrational.
There are some irrational points but also a lot of well reasoned points.
The importance of a face off is 8-10 seconds. That's about a minute and half of Gauthiers ice time.
I actually thought he was decent yesterday. Obviously he's not offensively inclined but he got to good spots yesterday. The problem: in tight games that matter you don't want this guy getting those chances. You want a better player.
He's been solid on the PK. But he's not even a top 3 option there either.
I fully agree that there is too much talk about him in this thread but I don't think questioning his selection to the team is irrational. There are some posters who will then to lengths to defend him and the cycle continues. Are his midget stats required? I'd say no. He's the worst forward on the team IMO and you hope he's the one who doesn't get our best chances in games that matter.
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I think hoping the goalie you don't like loses so your NHL teams goalie prospect gets to play is irrational, especially if you're supposedly cheering for the "team".
Nah, I've been to both and it's definitely the reverse. Canucks talk about Virtanen and some making fun of Gauthier (they are on the same line after all). Leaf boards are 50% puzzled by all the Gauthier hate and 50% arguing over whether Nylander will be a winger or a centre (as well as generally being amazed at him, as they should be).
We aren't that obsessed with Gauthier, just seems to come up more on these boards.
199991
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But who are you talking about? Gauthier didn't miss any game this year because he egging someone's car? WTF you don't know Gauthier's personnality to say this...
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86Habs
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- May 4, 2009
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You saw the play last night where Kane made a great pass to Wheeler for very big short handed goal I take it?
Not wanting him to be the starting goalie is one thing. Wanting Canada to lose when he's playing is another.
I think some people are just sticking up for him because he's being judged unfairly. To read the GDTs you'd think Canada lives and dies by what Gauthier does on every single shift.
In the Slovakia game, Crouse passed the puck two feet behind Gauthier and people were crying that Gauthier can't take a pass. A little later, Gauthier passes the puck two feet behind Crouse and people are crying that Gauthier can't make a pass. Same play, but it's Gauthier's fault both times.
Several people were complaining when he lost 3 straight faceoffs against Slovakia, yet they had nothing to say when he won every faceoff against Germany. The bias here against Gauthier is painfully obvious, so I think some people are just getting sick of it.
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199991
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- Dec 3, 2012
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Disagree. His faceoff ability plus the fact he keeps the scoring lines fresh make him an ideal PK specialist.
Hey, If he starts giving other teams scoring chances or losing draws all the time then i'd be all for benching him but he's doing what we all thought he would and hating on him looks about as rational as, well, going after our goalies for back to back shutouts or Virtanen for shooting the puck.
Still a couple games to go in the round robin so lets see how we all feel after new years. The tougher tests might see a shakeup in a few areas.
Oh, and a team on the PK that wins every defensive faceoff is going to to be hard to score against. Each win is more like 20-30+ seconds off a powerplay if your team competently ices the puck after the win. It's huge.
veganhunter
Mexico City Coyotes!
One or two contrary examples hardly disproves a consistent trend throughout his 6 years in the NHL. I could show you a couple nice moves by Chris Thorburn too, it doesn't prove he has good hands. Regardless of the occasional nice pass, the times Kane doesn't pass or makes a poor pass so far outweighs them that I don't even know why you'd think it important to mention. Not to say Kane isn't a good player, because he is.
McDavid and Virtanen can work. They got a few chances and I liked the way they played, personally.
Well, I guess you would know better than Bob Mck who described his game as 'creative'.
All this hating and bashing these young players is really sad. These kids were hand picked by some very knowledgeable hockey men. It's a team game and players are selected for specific aspects of their game.
All this b*****ng and the team hasn't been scored on
I sure hate to see what the posts around here will be like if/when the team loses a game
PecnoTrunk
Registered User
- Dec 20, 2014
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Hello all
My judgment on Gauthier is still out because he brings more than 1 dimension...he brings size to the team and penalty killing....
Hicketts on the other hand brings absolutely nothing, he is so slow...and really brings nothing else...the times i saw him he gets pushed off the puck rather easily....
I really hope he is not guaranteed a spot next year...
Posters on this board tried to reassure me regarding Hicketts....please...reassure me now...i need to be reassured because his inclusion on the team is just a waste of a spot over a guy like Fleury...
See a lot of comments on the WJC board discussing about how this tournament would indicate how a player will play in NHL and I would like to caution you that a short tournament like this would not be a very good indicator of who will do well and who will not. The styles they play in NHL is quite different from these tournaments and the size of NHL players are also much bigger on average not adding on chemistry and coaching influences.
I love watching this tournaments but not for scouting purposes as it does not always translate. There are many players who made the WJC teams and played well in the past did not do well in NHL and some even can't play in NHL because the big league is way much tougher than junior - more grinding and demanding physically and as a rookie you will be matched up against star players already proven themselves in the league. The coaches typically favours and trust veteran players over rookies so unless the rookies can be consistent and outstanding, they will not succeed right away, even given a roster spot. There is also that part of possession, a lot of rookies simply just can't get the pucks or get enough time and space to do their tricks, because they are checked by players who are good and experienced at taking the body, lifting the pucks and physically blocking you off from reaching the pucks. The last most important factors is that most of the NHL goalies cover their position well and have a very good glove hand.
I love watching this tournaments but not for scouting purposes as it does not always translate. There are many players who made the WJC teams and played well in the past did not do well in NHL and some even can't play in NHL because the big league is way much tougher than junior - more grinding and demanding physically and as a rookie you will be matched up against star players already proven themselves in the league. The coaches typically favours and trust veteran players over rookies so unless the rookies can be consistent and outstanding, they will not succeed right away, even given a roster spot. There is also that part of possession, a lot of rookies simply just can't get the pucks or get enough time and space to do their tricks, because they are checked by players who are good and experienced at taking the body, lifting the pucks and physically blocking you off from reaching the pucks. The last most important factors is that most of the NHL goalies cover their position well and have a very good glove hand.
crazychimp
Registered User
I just read the last 3 pages of this thread, whats with all the Gauthier hate lol?
Not every player in this tournament can be flashy every player has a role whether that's playing physical/hitting, creating plays etc and Gauthier's is to focus on the defensive side of the game by winning key draws and PK-ing comparable role to Manny Malhotra of MTL. He may not have the offensive instinct as his line mates but what do you want the guy to do?
If all players were the same and all had the same roles it would be a **** show, yes we have players in this tourney that our teams have drafted but lets put that aside and cheer for Canada and not individual players.
Not every player in this tournament can be flashy every player has a role whether that's playing physical/hitting, creating plays etc and Gauthier's is to focus on the defensive side of the game by winning key draws and PK-ing comparable role to Manny Malhotra of MTL. He may not have the offensive instinct as his line mates but what do you want the guy to do?
If all players were the same and all had the same roles it would be a **** show, yes we have players in this tourney that our teams have drafted but lets put that aside and cheer for Canada and not individual players.
I just read the last 3 pages of this thread, whats with all the Gauthier hate lol?
Not every player in this tournament can be flashy every player has a role whether that's playing physical/hitting, creating plays etc and Gauthier's is to focus on the defensive side of the game by winning key draws and PK-ing comparable role to Manny Malhotra of MTL. He may not have the offensive instinct as his line mates but what do you want the guy to do?
If all players were the same and all had the same roles it would be a **** show, yes we have players in this tourney that our teams have drafted but lets put that aside and cheer for Canada and not individual players.
The fact you compare him to Malhotra shows why he should not be on this team. This is team Canada. We have the ability to put elite players in that role. Reinhart and Lazar are both more than good enough defensively to be in that role and they can actually pitch in offensively.
Having said that, if he continues to play like he did yesterday, I have no problem with his inclusion.
TOML
Registered User
Agreed. Important element to have on the PK. Let's hope he keeps it up against stronger competition. If Canada takes as many penalties as they did last game (looking at you, Ritchie) then they'll need PK ability.
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