2014 Trade Deadline Thread II (All General Trade Talk/Proposals/Blog Rumors in here)

[SuperGenius]

I disagree. I just don't think Gaborik makes us that much of a better team. I don't see us keeping him past this year, so we must trade him. It just isn't smart asset management to lose a player like him for nothing.

I don't see the value now or for his rights prior to UFA being all that different. I'd just as soon keep him and see what happens. Even if you miss out on an asset, you gain potential goals and impact for the rest of the season. That's more important to me than the likely player + pick that he'd net. Neither of these types of picks or players help us now. Our reward for keeping him and not signing him is maybe a 3rd, maybe nothing, but we do gain considerable cap space - so even nothing is something.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Any player who isn't signed for the following year.

So we should be looking to trade Nikitin, Mackenzie, Comeau, McIlhenny as well? What about RFAs?

 

[JacketFanInFL]

Portzline teeing off on Gaborik this morning...

@Aportzline 3m
Last night was a prime example of #CBJ Marian Gaborik simply not fitting with this club's approach to hockey. If you watched the game ...

@Aportzline 3m
... you'd never guess No. 10 for Columbus was a $7.5M player. Now, allowances must be made for a player coming back from long-term injury...

@Aportzline 2m
... but Gaborik was invisible. At one point in third, linemate Nick Foligno almost ran him over/shoved him out of the way to pursue a puck.

 

[Samkow]

As SG has pointed out, where are the similar comments about Horton, who's been a complete liability over the past 6-7 games?

I get that he's not exactly fitting in like a glove here but how do you assume that a Thomas Vanek-type acquisition fits in any better.

Keep him for the rest of the season unless you're bringing in a quality player to replace him.

 

[Jackets16]

So we should be looking to trade Nikitin, Mackenzie, Comeau, McIlhenny as well? What about RFAs?

Wow, some of you are really having a tough time with some easy concepts. Any player who isn't signed for next year, who we don't plan to sign after the year, and who has value. So, yes, we should trade Nikitin if we don't plan on signing him and someone offers us something good.

 

[Jackets16]

I don't see the value now or for his rights prior to UFA being all that different. I'd just as soon keep him and see what happens. Even if you miss out on an asset, you gain potential goals and impact for the rest of the season. That's more important to me than the likely player + pick that he'd net. Neither of these types of picks or players help us now. Our reward for keeping him and not signing him is maybe a 3rd, maybe nothing, but we do gain considerable cap space - so even nothing is something.

We will have to agree to disagree. 1, because I don't think he helps us that much. 2, because I think we would get a lot more for him now than by trading his rights in the summer.

 

[cbjfaninmo]

We will have to agree to disagree. 1, because I don't think he helps us that much. 2, because I think we would get a lot more for him now than by trading his rights in the summer.

I have gone back and forth on Gabby, but I now think he will be moved by tomorrow. I am guessing he is on his way out. We can get more for him now.

 

[cbjfaninmo]

As SG has pointed out, where are the similar comments about Horton, who's been a complete liability over the past 6-7 games?

Horton has been very disappointing lately.

 

[blahblah]

Wow, some of you are really having a tough time with some easy concepts. Any player who isn't signed for next year, who we don't plan to sign after the year, and who has value. So, yes, we should trade Nikitin if we don't plan on signing him and someone offers us something good.

You do realize that Nikitin is going to be a RFA and that you'll probably get similiar value in the offseason? Hell, you could very well get close enough for Gaborik's rights.

These guys aren't franchise players. You are making mountains out of mole-hills here.

I'm looking at a hockey deal for Nikitin, either now or the off season. Gaborik; another hockey deal at the deadline if I have another deal lined up and I need his cap space.

Otherwise, I'm all in for a playoff run.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Wow, some of you are really having a tough time with some easy concepts. Any player who isn't signed for next year, who we don't plan to sign after the year, and who has value. So, yes, we should trade Nikitin if we don't plan on signing him and someone offers us something good.

No, what's complicated is your circuitous explanation. You didn't offer the two caveats "who we don't plan to sign" and "who has value" in your answer to my previous question. It makes understanding where you're coming from pretty damn difficult.

Then you say "we should trade Nikitin if we don't plan on signing him" when earlier you said "I don't see us keeping him past this year, so we must trade him."

Why gives you certainty in the case of Gaborik but not in the case of Niktin?

 

[blahblah]

As SG has pointed out, where are the similar comments about Horton, who's been a complete liability over the past 6-7 games?

Sure didn't look like a liability last night. He even stood out on a few shifts; especially when he walked in all-alone. He didn't convert, but good play.

A couple of nights he was a liability; otherwise he just hasn't stood out much. He need to clean up his defensive zone play some, but last night I didn't see a lot to complain about.

I see where you are coming from, but I think you are exaggerating a bit. We need more from our 2nd highest paid forward, but I wouldn't go as far as a liability for that long of a stretch. Part of it, yes. But not that entire time. We've got some matchup issues with that Johansen line right now. Richards is going to need to make some adjustments. The Dubinksy line really hasn't produced for a while now. That is far more concerning to me than Horton is Johansen right now. Dubinsky has 1 assist and a -3 since January. That line has been more of a liability IMHO.

 

[Jackets16]

Oh I don't know.

Johansen, Atkinson, Calvert, and Jenner. Not to mention Prout, Murray, Nikitin, and Savard.

Where would 54 games of playoff experience with 18 goals and 35 points in those games rank him on the Jackets? I think that might be more playoff games than our entire defense.

Not sure how that helps our defense. Also, I think we have plenty of playoff experience on our roster for where our team is in it's development. Plus, we can also trade for an experienced player if we think we need one. 6 of our 12 forwards have playoff experience. 3 of our 6 defensemen have playoff experience. Both of our goaltenders have playoff experinece (though not much).


1st line = 43gp, 15g, 21a, 36pts
Jenner - 0gp
Johansen - 0gp
Horton - 43gp, 15g, 21a, 36pts

2nd line = 69gp, 20g, 16a, 36pts
Umberger - 26gp, 14g, 5a, 19pts
Anisimov - 26gp, 4g, 7a, 11pts
Foligno - 17gp, 2g, 4a, 6pts

3rd line = 31gp, 7g, 10a, 17pts
Calvert - 0gp
Dubinsky - 31gp, 7g, 10a, 17pts
Atkinson - 0gp

4th line = 11gp, 0g, 2a, 2pts
MacKenzie - 0gp
Letestu - 11gp, 0g, 2a, 2pts
Tropp - 0gp

1st pair = 40gp, 1g, 20a, 21pts
Johnson - 12gp, 1g, 11a, 12pts
Tyutin - 28gp, 0g, 9a, 9pts

2nd pair = 18gp, 1g, 4a, 5pts
Wisniewski - 18gp, 1g, 4a, 5pts
Murray - 0gp

3rd pair = 0gp
Nikitin - 0gp
Savard - 0gp

Extras
Craig - 11gp, 0g, 0a, 0pts
Bass - 4gp, 1g, 0a, 1pt
Prout - 0gp
Comeau - 0gp
Skille - 0gp

Goaltendenders
Bobrovsky - 7gp - 0-2-0, 4.04gaa, .848sv%
McElhinney - 1gp, 0-0-0, 1.78gaa, .900sv%

 

[Jackets16]

No, what's complicated is your circuitous explanation. You didn't offer the two caveats "who we don't plan to sign" and "who has value" in your answer to my previous question. It makes understanding where you're coming from pretty damn difficult.

Then you say "we should trade Nikitin if we don't plan on signing him" when earlier you said "I don't see us keeping him past this year, so we must trade him."

Why gives you certainty in the case of Gaborik but not in the case of Niktin?

This is the last time I say something on this and I am only saying something, because you asked a question. First, that stuff is pretty common sense to most people. Most people know you should trade a player who isn't signed and you don't plan on signing. As for Nikitin and Gaborik. The fact that people are saying we are looking to trade one and no one is saying anything about the other. That is one reason I think the way I do. Then you look at how much each costs, what they mean to the team, etc....

 

[pete goegan]

Sure didn't look like a liability last night. He even stood out on a few shifts; especially when he walked in all-alone. He didn't convert, but good play.

A couple of nights he was a liability; otherwise he just hasn't stood out much. He need to clean up his defensive zone play some, but last night I didn't see a lot to complain about.

I see where you are coming from, but I think you are exaggerating a bit. We need more from our 2nd highest paid forward, but I wouldn't go as far as a liability for that long of a stretch. Part of it, yes. But not that entire time. We've got some matchup issues with that Johansen line right now. Richards is going to need to make some adjustments. The Dubinksy line really hasn't produced for a while now. That is far more concerning to me than Horton is Johansen right now. Dubinsky has 1 assist and a -3 since January. That line has been more of a liability IMHO.

While I agree that his individual impact has not been what we might have hoped, I think his style of play is a very good fit with Jenner and Johansen. I'm with blahblah, I thought Horton was OK, last night, and far from a liability.

I do think the Dubi line has threatened, recently, but they haven't cashed in much. I was hard on RJ, last night, for mishandling pucks, but I forgot his hand injury; so he may have been worse than usual for that reason. Still, none of the three have done anything 5 on 5, with Umby and Cam scoring on the Power Play and Dubi concentrating on putting the Jackets on the Penalty Kill.

 

[pete goegan]

Not sure how that helps our defense. Also, I think we have plenty of playoff experience on our roster for where our team is in it's development. Plus, we can also trade for an experienced player if we think we need one. 6 of our 12 forwards have playoff experience. 3 of our 6 defensemen have playoff experience. Both of our goaltenders have playoff experinece (though not much).


1st line = 43gp, 15g, 21a, 36pts
Jenner - 0gp
Johansen - 0gp
Horton - 43gp, 15g, 21a, 36pts

2nd line = 69gp, 20g, 16a, 36pts
Umberger - 26gp, 14g, 5a, 19pts
Anisimov - 26gp, 4g, 7a, 11pts
Foligno - 17gp, 2g, 4a, 6pts

3rd line = 31gp, 7g, 10a, 17pts
Calvert - 0gp
Dubinsky - 31gp, 7g, 10a, 17pts
Atkinson - 0gp

4th line = 11gp, 0g, 2a, 2pts
MacKenzie - 0gp
Letestu - 11gp, 0g, 2a, 2pts
Tropp - 0gp

1st pair = 40gp, 1g, 20a, 21pts
Johnson - 12gp, 1g, 11a, 12pts
Tyutin - 28gp, 0g, 9a, 9pts

2nd pair = 18gp, 1g, 4a, 5pts
Wisniewski - 18gp, 1g, 4a, 5pts
Murray - 0gp

3rd pair = 0gp
Nikitin - 0gp
Savard - 0gp

Extras
Craig - 11gp, 0g, 0a, 0pts
Bass - 4gp, 1g, 0a, 1pt
Prout - 0gp
Comeau - 0gp
Skille - 0gp

Goaltendenders
Bobrovsky - 7gp - 0-2-0, 4.04gaa, .848sv%
McElhinney - 1gp, 0-0-0, 1.78gaa, .900sv%

Looking at that gives you confidence? Not me!

 

[Jackets16]

Looking at that gives you confidence? Not me!

Where did I say it gave me confidence? Did you even read my post or the post I was replying too?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

This is the last time I say something on this and I am only saying something, because you asked a question. First, that stuff is pretty common sense to most people. Most people know you should trade a player who isn't signed and you don't plan on signing. As for Nikitin and Gaborik. The fact that people are saying we are looking to trade one and no one is saying anything about the other. That is one reason I think the way I do. Then you look at how much each costs, what they mean to the team, etc....

I'm asking questions because I'm genuinely trying to get at where you're coming from. I'm sorry it's pissing you off but you act like the way you think is the way everyone thinks and it's not that way at all. "Common sense" is a BS way of saying "everyone should think the way I do." I'm asking for more than platitudes because I'm pretty sure you're capable of it. That it's taken this many back-and-forth posts to make your position clear isn't my fault. It's yours.

Here's what I take from your posting on this topic: You think Gaborik won't be resigned but has some value and therefore should be traded. That's fine. I disagree. I'm not sure if he'll be resigned and I believe he has value to the team even if he's not, and therefore wouldn't just automatically be looking to trade him. (Notice I don't cache my opinion as "common sense.")

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Where did I say it gave me confidence? Did you even read my post or the post I was replying too?

So what is your point with the playoff-games-played post? As for "confidence," maybe you shouldn't lead off with...

I think we have plenty of playoff experience on our roster for where our team is in it's development.

...and then people wouldn't misinterpret you.

Some people would say it's common sense to want a veteran player with playoff experience on this roster, given the games-played numbers you posted.

 

[Jackets16]

I'm asking questions because I'm genuinely trying to get at where you're coming from. I'm sorry it's pissing you off but you act like the way you think is the way everyone thinks and it's not that way at all. "Common sense" is a BS way of saying "everyone should think the way I do." I'm asking for more than platitudes because I'm pretty sure you're capable of it. That it's taken this many back-and-forth posts to make your position clear isn't my fault. It's yours.

Here's what I take from your posting on this topic: You think Gaborik won't be resigned but has some value and therefore should be traded. That's fine. I disagree. I'm not sure if he'll be resigned and I believe he has value to the team even if he's not, and therefore wouldn't just automatically be looking to trade him. (Notice I don't cache my opinion as "common sense.")

All you had to say was you disagree with me then. Also, I don't think you even understand what my "common sense" referred too. I said it is common sense that if a team is trading a player who is not signed after this year, then they probably aren't planning to resign him. I didn't say it was "common sense" that every player not signed after this year should be traded. Or anything else. Is it not commen sense that if a player who isn't signed after this year is traded, that the team who traded the player probably wasn't planning on signing him?

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

You do realize that Nikitin is going to be a RFA and that you'll probably get similiar value in the offseason? Hell, you could very well get close enough for Gaborik's rights.

These guys aren't franchise players. You are making mountains out of mole-hills here.

I'm looking at a hockey deal for Nikitin, either now or the off season. Gaborik; another hockey deal at the deadline if I have another deal lined up and I need his cap space.

Otherwise, I'm all in for a playoff run.

Nikitin is UFA.

 

[Jackets16]

So what is your point with the playoff-games-played post? As for "confidence," maybe you shouldn't lead off with...



...and then people wouldn't misinterpret you.

Some people would say it's common sense to want a veteran player with playoff experience on this roster, given the games-played numbers you posted.

My point is that blahblah said we had numerous guys with no playoff experience. I was just pointing out that half of our forwards, half of our defense, and both of our goaltenders have playoff experience. To me, that is not numerous players with no playoff experience.

As for the second part. Did you not read the part where I said, "for where our team is in it's development?" If we were trying to win the Stanley Cup this year, I wouldn't think we have enough experience. We aren't at that point. We would all love to win it this year, but we are just trying to make the playoffs at this point.

Most good teams go through a process where their players gain this experience. First, you make the playoffs. Then, you win a playoff round or two. Then, you might go on in win the Stanley Cup. Now, that isn't the way for everyone, but I would guess it is for a lot of teams. Then by the 2nd or 3rd time in the playoffs, you have a lot of players with experience.

 

[Kev22]

I'll try to get this somewhat back on topic. Any interest in Andrei Meszaros? Dreger says he's available for a 2nd round pick.

 

[Jackets16]

I'll try to get this somewhat back on topic. Any interest in Andrei Meszaros? Dreger says he's available for a 2nd round pick.

A few years ago I would have. I really have no clue how he has been playing lately though.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

All you had to say was you disagree with me then.

But I wasn't sure I disagreed with you until your position was clarified.

Also, I don't think you even understand what my "common sense" referred too. I said it is common sense that if a team is trading a player who is not signed after this year, then they probably aren't planning to resign him. I didn't say it was "common sense" that every player not signed after this year should be traded. Or anything else. Is it not commen sense that if a player who isn't signed after this year is traded, that the team who traded the player probably wasn't planning on signing him?

That isn't what you said, at least to my reading. You said that a player who isn't signed and won't be signed must be traded. I don't see that as common sense. I see that as one possible avenue. Another might be to retain a player for a stretch drive and playoff run on a team that could benefit from said player's experience. Some people might consider that common sense.

 

[pete goegan]

My point is that blahblah said we had numerous guys with no playoff experience. I was just pointing out that half of our forwards, half of our defense, and both of our goaltenders have playoff experience. To me, that is not numerous players with no playoff experience.

To me, half a roster qualifies as "numerous." I know, too, that you stressed no playoff experience, but many of them have very limited experience.