Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread
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There is a difference. Your trades bern deserve aicon after every one. Your targets either make no sense or you drastically overpay for no reason.
Fair enough a huge dif between yours truly and RB, our greatest poster!
However, regardless of the specific moves which are worthy of debate, the blueprint is similar enough.
A lot of you guys don't want to invest in quality chips to catch up. Don't want to acknowledge we are behind the elite, don't have enough horses, and need to make moves like this is shorten the gap more quickly.
Inferno
Registered User
i suggest that, at BEST we have a 5 year window with which to win a cup. After that Henrik will likely no longer be Henrik, and the team in front of him will likely never be able to win a cup without him being the best at his position.
In 5 years, we're likely going to have to tear it all down and start over.
Get it while you can.
Boyle is an UFA, a power play guy, a right handed shot, and would solve a lot of problems.
For all our talk of needing a right handed center, Nash really needs a left handed center to find him. its harder for a righty to find your RW than it is for him to find his LW. Thornton is an elite passer. He's not a good one like Stepan, hes ELITE. Youd be playing him with a super speedy winger, just like Marleau, and a 1 on 1 monster in Nash.
I'm saying, we try to win now. I don't think they can be an elite team for much longer than the next 3 seasons. I think age will catch up, i think all our best players other than Kreider and McDonagh are all in their primes right now and in 5 years will be past their primes (MSL, Nash, Brassard, Zucc to a lesser degree, Girardi, Stralman, etc). I think people who think this team will be able to compete 5 years from now are delusional. Our lack of farm strength will kill us, and our existing young players arent guys you can build around sans McDonagh.
in 5 years, they are going to hve to have a firesale. I know nobody wants to hear it, but I truly believe that this team is approaching the peak of their lifecycle. if they dont win, and win soon, they wont for another 10 years.
Could be, but I don't even think that Joe Thornton and Dan Boyle will help them win now.
Boyle has severely regressed. Thornton has never performed in the playoffs.
If you're going to go for it now, like you think we should, i'd consider going after other people and breaking the bank on them, rather than the two geriatrics you mentioned.
- Sep 17, 2007
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I'm so sick of this narrative that we will never have another goalie after Hank. Yeah, he's the best, but lots of goalies not named Henrik Lundqvist have won the cup. The idea that we have a window of 3 or 5 or however many years until Hank is no longer Hank is a complete fallacy.
Jeff Gorton was the one in favor of shipping out Thornton when they were both with the Bruins. Don't see him being in favor of acquiring him now.
Staal for Thornton is ludicrous. SJ is not dealing from a position of strength and losing Staal hurts us. Don't care that he's only got 1 year left on his deal, he's shown all indications of wanting to get a deal done with the Rangers. He isn't going to Carolina. Thornton is 35, has a full NM and the Sharks are looking to shake things up. Would not do that.
I hopefully disagree, Inferno. Currently Henrik is the biggest reason why this team went so far in the playoffs. I think, however, that it was a team effort that got the team there (heck, talbot stepped in and played nicely and had he not, the Rangers, 6 points secure in the playoff spot, may not make it). My real point is hopefully before Lundqivst is in a real decline, his heir apparent is in waiting in the wings, or can easily be had and the team is on a solid foundation that he can be replaced. There are a lot of teams who have won without Lundqvist. He is only one guy, and while he is imminently important to the team today, hopefully they develop a core, and continue to build that core, and can compete once Lundqvist is gone.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
For many of us, Henrik is our favorite Ranger of all time. It would be sweeter for me to see him hoist one cup with the Rangers than Cam Talbot winning two cups with the Rangers.
Inferno
Registered User
Boyle has severely regressed....
http://rangersunlimited.com/2014/06/16/off-season-target-dan-boyle/
Thornton has never performed in the playoffs. Thats something thats perpetuated by people who never actually look at the numbers...
Who have been the #1 centers on the last 4 sc winners?
Kopitar and Toews.
Kopitar PPG in the playoffs: .857
Toews PPG in the playoffs: .862
Thornton PPG in the playoffs: .758
To put that in perspective, in a 22ish game SC run you'd be talking about the difference between 17 points and 19 points between Thornton and Kopitar.
So, i'd call that complete and utter bunk.
Inferno
Registered User
Can you name me 1 team that doesn't have an elite goalie that has won the cup without tanking for a few years?
Hitch16
Easily Triggered
Yeesh Gardner - I can understand the sentiment but I'd go with the multiple cups with Talbot. Hell, I loved Mike Richter but if a tandem of Billy Smith and Ron Hextall netted the Rangers with 4 cups, I think I'd go with the latter.
Seems like u guys don't like Thornton so what do u suppose we do for a #1 center? ROR is highly unlikely, spezza is going out west and Kesler won't come here so what options do we have? Stastny would be nice for a certain price. Btw I see a lot of people offering staal and I don't understand it he wants to stay and win here
Hitch16
Easily Triggered
I guess this disqualifies the Blackhawks and Penguins?
Detroit Red Wings would be my only guess?
Inferno
Registered User
Chicago was one of the biggest tankers...how do you think they got Kane and Toews?
Barkov was 2nd overall and is also like 4 years younger. And his only good teammate up front is Huberdeau. Nice try.
I love Kreider but I don't know why you guys are ao sensitive about him. He's not the next Gretzky. Our best chance to get a Cup is with Hank in net in his prime. What's that, a 4 year window? Less than that if you figure St Louis is gone soon, same with Staal probably and that Girardi contract might get ugly. Plus we have dead weight in Nash. We need to win now. If that means moving Kreider for a better player RIGHT NOW it needs to happen
Inferno
Registered User
yep, and the Wings are the exception rather than the rule. Theyve made the playoffs every year for the past 20+ years..what is it now, 24 years? somethign absurd like that.
you cant look at that to be the blueprint.
to me, theres really only 2 ways to win a cup.
1)Have an elite goalie and build around him with a solid team.
2)Have a good goalie and put an elite team in front of him.
I guess its possible to be the Kings and have both, but i still dont consider Quick an elite goalie. I consider him to be a "timely" goalie.
Inferno
Registered User
My question here is, does anyone think we make it to the SCF with Cam Talbot as our goalie instead of Henrik Lundqvist.
Do we beat the Penguins in that Game 7 where they were all over us and Henrik had to be God-Qvist with Talbot in net?
Do we beat the Habs when Henrik makes that ridonkulous ninja save in game 6?
Do we even win 1 game in the SCF when Henrik stands on his head in game 4?
Size. Speed. Skill. You can't understand why people wouldn't want to give that up? He's 23.
Agreed - maybe, just maybe, by the time Henrik retires, we will have a team thats a lot stronger in other areas.
This philosophy that we need to go for it now while Henrik is still Henrik will likely end with Lundqvist retired and this team possessing nothing of significant value.
Literally, everything you say is arbitrary.
I.e. Hank's 4 year window.
I.e. Kesler being elite.
I.e. MSL being gone soon.
I.e. Staal being gone soon.
I.e. Nash being dead weight.
Tim Thomas won the cup at the age of 38. So Idk where you're getting your 4 year window from.
Kesler scored 43 points this year. 49 2 years ago. He's actually only had 2 seasons throughout his career where he has had over 60 points.
Definition of elite:
e·lite
əˈlēt,āˈlēt/Submit
noun
1.
a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities.
Kesler seems pretty average to me, unless your definition of elite means average?
MSL has 1 more year left on his current contract. He has also expressed publicly that he's already talking to management for an extension. He lives in CT, about 25 min from the Rangers practice facility in Westchester. He is in excellent physical condition. He could play for 4, maybe 5 more years if he wants to and still maintain a pretty dominant role.
Staal has talked about his desire to work on an extension this year. I understand the hot topic is to project that he could be traded, but a big possibility, maybe even probability, is that he does sign the extension and he's here for a good 7 more seasons.
Nash being dead weight is so ****ing overblown. He's 1 of two guys that can score north of 30 goals on this team. He was producing at a ppg rate last year in the ****ing NHL. And while he couldn't score this offseason, he literally did every other thing correctly. Dead weight is Brad Richards, who was slow to every puck, lost every battle on the boards, made terrible passes and decisions that occasionally turned out to be detrimental to the team, and didn't score goals. Nash was unfortunate, maybe even not playing to his ceiling, but he kept plays alive that normally would have been broken, fed his team mates, made some spectacular goal saving defensive plays, played on the penalty kill, created powerplay opportunities, etc.
So, literally... everything you said was opinionated and wrongly so, too...
- Sep 17, 2007
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Detroit won with Osgood, who generally isn't considered to be elite. Boston won with Thomas playing out of his mind, but he wasn't even an NHL starting goalie until he was 33. LA never tanked, and Quick wasn't considered elite before they won in 2012.
But you're right. It's impossible to win the cup without tanking, having an elite goaltender, or both. And we will never have an elite goaltender after Hank. And I guess we'll never tank either. Good to know.
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