Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread VI

[Rangerfan4life90]

Fleury won a cup..

So would Lundqvist if he was the goalie for them instead of Fleury.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

I love the Rangers more than Stepan, too. I don'ts ee the point in mentioning that.

You cited a bunch of statistics from years ago with Spezza.

Fact is, he's 31, coming off a 66 point season (Stepan had 57), was injured the year before. Wrong side of 30, trending downwards. Stepan is 24 and trending up.

Even if Spezza outperforms Stepan for 2-3 years, to say Spezza is better than Stepan ever will be is a statement meaning "Spezza, right now, is better than Stepan ever will be" - Spezza's 80-90 point seasons are irrelevant, IMO.

What isn't accurate about what I said? Stepan has the potential to win a Selke one day, and he has the talent to put up 60-65-70 points. He's already put up 57 points in a year where he played like **** for 4 months after missing training camp.

A lot of people on this board don't view Stepan as a #1C, but I do. And we need to be patient. I may be wrong, he may score 40 points next year as you say. But I prefer to take the risk that Stepan will suddenly regress at age 24 than to risk that Spezza will put up 80-90 points and make $7M in a walk year at 31 years of age.

If we are going to trade Stepan, we should be using him as the centerpiece of a package to get us a younger, elite center. Not Jason Spezza.

Thank you for the thoughtful, actual discussion-worthy response (unlike some on here). Your points are very valid. We just seem to disagree on how important certain aspects of this deal are / would be.

And of course I'd love to trade Stepan for that "younger, elite center" but I don't see it happening because he's not enough on his own, and even as the centerpiece of the deal, I don't see us having enough pieces to add to the deal to both be worth it for us to give up and be good enough to persuade the other team to move their "younger elite center."

That's why I was so intrigued by the possibility of Ryan O'Reilly potentially becoming available, but now that Stastny is officially hitting the market tomorrow, it seems next to impossible that COL would deal O'Reilly and lose both of those players in one offseason.

But again, Tyler Seguin was moved for Loui Eriksson. Stranger things have happened. I have a feeling that a lot of us are going to be shocked at what really happens with the Rangers tomorrow and throughout the offseason. Oh baby.


Again, to me, the upgrade from Stepan to Spezza is significant enough to warrant losing the "hopeful future potential" that we all see in Stepan. And we have the perfect SECOND-line center behind Spezza to make the top-six work:

Kreider Spezza St. Louis
Nash Brassard Zuccarello (or Zuccarello Brassard Nash)

Especially when playing with Zucc, Brassard and he are puck possession machines. Nash essentially takes Pouliot's spot so there should be no loss in production there; there should only be an increase as Nash hopefully rebounds from a terrible offensive season.

And that first line could be one of the most lethal lines in the whole entire league. If Spezza and MSL can find even SIMILAR chemistry to the kind of synergistic relationship Marty and Stamkos had in Tampa Bay, watch out. And Stamkos and MSL never had a guy with Kreider's combination of speed, size, skill, strength, and physicality to create time and space for them.

I just don't see Stepan having enough skill, being a good enough skater, or being enough of a SHOOTER to make that line work as a legitimate top line. It'd be a waste of MSL and Kreider's talents.

As good as Stepan is, he's not a bonafide first-line center. He just isn't. And it's my personal belief that he never will be. He tops out at ~60 points. When Spezza puts up 60 points it's a down season for him. He scored 84 points in 80 games just two seasons ago before he got hurt during the lockout-shortened season.

We haven't had a player with Spezza's skillset since perhaps Nylander (and even he was at the very end of his career and found amazing chemistry with Straka and one of the best players to ever play the game in Jagr).

Not only do I feel strongly about this move, but to me, Stepan + prospect+pick is a STEAL for someone with Spezza's skillset. The cost would actually be a lot more if it weren't for these two factors:

1) Spezza asked for a trade and controls his destination with the NTC

2) Spezza's contract expires after this season, so his trade-value isn't what it normally would be if he were under contract going forward.

Look at what MSL got in a similar situation, except he had an extra year on his deal.

 

[Radek27]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

please, I can't.

I'm not sure what has happened to his game since then but he was very good that year and made some big saves.

 

[Trainmman]

Renaud Lavoie ‏@renlavoietva

Paul Stastny and the Avalanche were not able to get a deal done. He'll hit the market tomorrow. #tvasports

Don't see this as much of a shock. Let the bidding begin.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I'm not sure what has happened to his game since then but he was very good that year and made some big saves.

He was better the year prior. That said, it isn't the point. He's actually trying to argue in some vein that Fleury is better than Lundqvist, which is hilarious.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Fleury won a cup..

With far, far worse #'s than Lundqvist had in his final run. Impressive!

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Renaud Lavoie ‏@renlavoietva

Paul Stastny and the Avalanche were not able to get a deal done. He'll hit the market tomorrow. #tvasports

Don't see this as much of a shock. Let the bidding begin.

Maybe that's why we're going dirt cheap in the bottom 6...

 

[haohmaru]

Maybe that's why we're going dirt cheap in the bottom 6...

I hope not. :/

 

[RangerBlues]

This is not a FA market one should dive head first into.

 

[Trainmman]

Maybe that's why we're going dirt cheap in the bottom 6...

With some of the players the Rangers are being linked to and the reluctance to pay.. wouldn't shock me in the slightest.

 

[StepansLabyrinth]

To be fair, Stastny wouldn't be a bad deal in the first couple of years. It's the last couple of years I'm concerned about.

 

[Tawnos]

If we keep Stepan, he will score more points as a Ranger than Spezza would if we acquired him.

Two years ago Spezza doesn't matter. Two years is a huge amount of time for a player entering into the downswing of his career. Throw an injury in between and it's pretty likely he will never see the 80 point plateau ever again in his career. It's a huge, huge gamble. Stepan, at least, is cost controllable for at least 3 years, probably more when they eat UFA years on his 3rd contract. Spezza might not be here for more than 1 season. It's, flat out, just bad asset management (and I hate that phrase).

When Stepan was getting 16 even strength minutes per night for 48 games, plus his PK and PP time, he put up 44 points. That was in a decrepit offensive system too. It pro-rates to 75 points over 82 games. I'm actually fairly convinced that putting him at 15 ES minutes per night will result in a 65-70 point season. Spezza just isn't worth the extra 15-20 points you might be getting out of him for more than double the salary without any assurance he's sticking around for more than one year.

Just an awful idea.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I actually like Stastny a lot, but unless the organization is much higher on our kids than I am the numbers just don't work.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Thank you for the thoughtful, actual discussion-worthy response (unlike some on here). Your points are very valid. We just seem to disagree on how important certain aspects of this deal are / would be.

And of course I'd love to trade Stepan for that "younger, elite center" but I don't see it happening because he's not enough on his own, and even as the centerpiece of the deal, I don't see us having enough pieces to add to the deal to both be worth it for us to give up and be good enough to persuade the other team to move their "younger elite center."

That's why I was so intrigued by the possibility of Ryan O'Reilly potentially becoming available, but now that Stastny is officially hitting the market tomorrow, it seems next to impossible that COL would deal O'Reilly and lose both of those players in one offseason.

But again, Tyler Seguin was moved for Loui Eriksson. Stranger things have happened. I have a feeling that a lot of us are going to be shocked at what really happens with the Rangers tomorrow and throughout the offseason. Oh baby.


Again, to me, the upgrade from Stepan to Spezza is significant enough to warrant losing the "hopeful future potential" that we all see in Stepan. And we have the perfect SECOND-line center behind Spezza to make the top-six work:

Kreider Spezza St. Louis
Nash Brassard Zuccarello (or Zuccarello Brassard Nash)

Especially when playing with Zucc, Brassard and he are puck possession machines. Nash essentially takes Pouliot's spot so there should be no loss in production there; there should only be an increase as Nash hopefully rebounds from a terrible offensive season.

And that first line could be one of the most lethal lines in the whole entire league. If Spezza and MSL can find even SIMILAR chemistry to the kind of synergistic relationship Marty and Stamkos had in Tampa Bay, watch out. And Stamkos and MSL never had a guy with Kreider's combination of speed, size, skill, strength, and physicality to create time and space for them.

I just don't see Stepan having enough skill, being a good enough skater, or being enough of a SHOOTER to make that line work as a legitimate top line. It'd be a waste of MSL and Kreider's talents.

As good as Stepan is, he's not a bonafide first-line center. He just isn't. And it's my personal belief that he never will be. He tops out at ~60 points. When Spezza puts up 60 points it's a down season for him. He scored 84 points in 80 games just two seasons ago before he got hurt during the lockout-shortened season.

We haven't had a player with Spezza's skillset since perhaps Nylander (and even he was at the very end of his career and found amazing chemistry with Straka and one of the best players to ever play the game in Jagr).

Not only do I feel strongly about this move, but to me, Stepan + prospect+pick is a STEAL for someone with Spezza's skillset. The cost would actually be a lot more if it weren't for these two factors:

1) Spezza asked for a trade and controls his destination with the NTC

2) Spezza's contract expires after this season, so his trade-value isn't what it normally would be if he were under contract going forward.

Look at what MSL got in a similar situation, except he had an extra year on his deal.

Eh. I think you're overvaluing Spezza's "skillset."

And also, I love Brassard, and think he'll be fine as the 2C. But Stepan is more of a 1C than Brassard is a 2C.

Tyler Seguin - Loui Eriksson - terrible comparison IMO, and here's why. At the time of the deal, Eriksson was a very coveted player. You're acting like it was a rip off. Seguin was coming off a playoff where he struggled, he had fallen out of favor in Boston, he was blocked by Bergeron and Krejci. Eriksson fit that team like a glove, on paper. A 2-way scoring winger, not old. Erikson was 27 and coming off 3 consecutive years of 70 points playing top, top, top defense. Seguin had not yet emerged.

Trading Stepan for Spezza would more likely be us getting Eriksson and Ottawa getting Seguin. Even though, in hindsight, that trade seems to favor Dallas, Boston got Smith in that deal, and Eriksson looked to be a perfect fit.

I disagree on Stepan's skills, too. His skating is average, but his passing and head for the game are top notch. He also has a really really good shot - he just never ****ing shoots.

I hear your points about synergy and what not, but trading Stepan for Spezza to squeeze a year or two out of a potential Spezza-MSL combo that may not even work is just poor asset management.

I could get on board with your ROR obsession (which you deny, but you really are obsessed with us getting him, and that's fine lol), but this Stepan-Spezza deal would set the organization back for YEARS. I really believe YEARS. It would be a Dark Ages move to a T.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Not saying we should or will.. but IF we sign Stastny no other choice but to move Brassard

 

[surf]

...and whats with everyone saying Boyle turns it up a notch in the playoffs? How many goals did he score 2 in post season? Where's he turning it up exactly?He plays the same great PK and very solid defensively whether its in season or PO's...I have grown to accept him even with his short comings offensively and physical play or lack there of....If someone wants to pay him above 2m you let him walk...Buffalo wants him on the first or second line? no wonder they are doormats

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Fleury won a cup..

Trent Dilfer won a super bowl ring.

 

[Ail]

Tomorrow should be a great time.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

...and whats with everyone saying Boyle turns it up a notch in the playoffs? How many goals did he score 2 in post season? Where's he turning it up exactly?He plays the same great PK and very solid defensively whether its in season or PO's...I have grown to accept him even with his short comings offensively and physical play or lack there of....If someone wants to pay him above 2m you let him walk...Buffalo wants him on the first or second line? no wonder they are doormats

Boyle pretty evidently turns it up in the post season. If you disagree, you're just not watching enough games during the regular season and playoffs to make the comparison.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/2...y-offer-anton-stralman-has-from-another-team/

4.5 x 6.

Do it.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If we keep Stepan, he will score more points as a Ranger than Spezza would if we acquired him.

Two years ago Spezza doesn't matter. Two years is a huge amount of time for a player entering into the downswing of his career. Throw an injury in between and it's pretty likely he will never see the 80 point plateau ever again in his career. It's a huge, huge gamble. Stepan, at least, is cost controllable for at least 3 years, probably more when they eat UFA years on his 3rd contract. Spezza might not be here for more than 1 season. It's, flat out, just bad asset management (and I hate that phrase).

When Stepan was getting 16 even strength minutes per night for 48 games, plus his PK and PP time, he put up 44 points. That was in a decrepit offensive system too. It pro-rates to 75 points over 82 games. I'm actually fairly convinced that putting him at 15 ES minutes per night will result in a 65-70 point season. Spezza just isn't worth the extra 15-20 points you might be getting out of him for more than double the salary without any assurance he's sticking around for more than one year.

Just an awful idea.

Spezza was a 2nd overall pick though!!!!

We should trade Brassard for Benn with that logic.

 

[Calad]

Anton Stralman reportedly has a long-term contract offer worth between $4.5 million and $5 million coming from another team and that is why it’s “going to be hard for the Rangers to retain him.†(ESPN)

Pierre LeBrun expects the Rangers to make one last attempt at getting Stralman to sign an extension.

It has been noted that talks between the Rangers and Stralman have not been going well

It’s been reported that the Rangers have allotted around $4 million per year for Stralman on a 3-4 year deal.

http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/2...am/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Oh well, good for Anton. What are our alternatives now?

 

[SA16]

Doesn't seem worth paying Stralman 4.5 x 5 or so when Ehrhoff should only get slightly more.

 

[Lime]

http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/2...am/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Oh well, good for Anton. What are our alternatives now?

Plan C in the RD problem, which is actually just Plan A. Sign Del Zotto and try to teach him RD again.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

So he's gonna take 500K more per year?? Whatever let him go. Guys need to want to be here