Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II ‎

[Thesensation19*]

If the Rangers could get a 1st round pick next Friday,Dylan Larkin





http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/201.../5797108/2014-nhl-draft-prospect-dylan-larkin

The scouting report on JT Miller is he will be a second line center on a winning NHL team. The Rangers need to give Miller an opportunity. The Rangers need their young players to give them cheap service. They can't bottom fish in the free agent market every year because they don't have the space to fill out out the roster after paying all of their top players. The Rangers were a strong team 1-18. All of their skaters could play. There weren't any Stu Bickels or Arron Asham's on the team. Miller needs to realize its time to wake up and grab hold of his opportunity.

Torts gave him more opportunities than Kreider because he played with heart, he skated strong, was a solid play maker and skater. He didnt like that Kreider was defensive liability.

AV came in and said the same thing about Kreider. Hense why it took a while before he became a full time NHL guy. Yet he also gives Miller a lot of time. He did say that if Miller doesnt fix the small issues, he will always be an AHL player.


Miller gets the time. But doesnt mean he doesnt have to work on things. Why would the Rangers give him more time, if they were a Stanley Cup team without him...

 

[haohmaru]

How is that even possible?

Zucc produced 15 more points than Brassard did in the regular season.

There's absolutely no way I think Brassard is able to procure a contract similar to Zucc's.

Length of time in the league and position (C vs. W) + previous salary.

I'd almost guarantee that Brassard gets more than Zooks.

This guy http://www.capgeek.com/player/342 has similar career numbers to (points per game) to Brassard and signed 5 x 4.7 with Winnipeg.

 

[RangerBoy]

Craig Custance brought up the Bryan Little comparison to Brassard. Little has averaged .60 points per game. Brassard is at .56 points pet game but his playoff performance makes up the difference. Brassard has a greater body of work than Zuccarello who has one year under his belt but the system will help him get a big contract. Arbitration eligible and then a group 3.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Length of time in the league and position (C vs. W) + previous salary.

I'd almost guarantee that Brassard gets more than Zooks.

This guy http://www.capgeek.com/player/342 has similar career numbers to (points per game) to Brassard and signed 5 x 4.7 with Winnipeg.

Craig Custance brought up the Bryan Little comparison to Brassard. Little has averaged .60 points per game. Brassard is at .56 points pet game but his playoff performance makes up the difference. Brassard has a greater body of work than Zuccarello who has one year under his belt but the system will help him get a big contract. Arbitration eligible and then a group 3.

So why not defer a decision on him and just extend the QO?

 

[RangerBoy]

The Leafs are holding their annual Cody Franson auction. The Rangers could get a good deal for Klein down the road if they keep Stralman. AV believes Klein is a top 4 D and management probably feels the same way. They keep Stralman and Klein becomes an asset to move when McIlrath is ready.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

How is that even possible?

Zucc produced 15 more points than Brassard did in the regular season.

There's absolutely no way I think Brassard is able to procure a contract similar to Zucc's.

Brassard currently makes 3x as much as Zuccarello. Base salary does play a role in negotiations with RFA's.

 

[haohmaru]

Klein's contract would prevent me, if I were the Rangers GM, from moving him. Tons of value there. Unless some team knocked my socks off with a deal there's no way I'd trade him. Too much value.

 

[Fitzy]

Klein's contract would prevent me, if I were the Rangers GM, from moving him. Tons of value there. Unless some team knocked my socks off with a deal there's no way I'd trade him. Too much value.

The question becomes whether it's worth it to have a good 3rd pairing defenseman at almost 3 million on the books.

If NYR keep Stralman, that's 3 solid defensive defensemen down the right side. They only need 2 for the penalty kill.

I'm not saying they can't keep Klein if they re-sign Stralman, but they might find better value elsewhere.

It's not like they can move any of the three to LD if they choose to deal Staal, either.

 

[bernmeister]

I mean if we're gonna be stupid and overpay for someone... can we at least just do it for Stastny and money instead of of these crazy proposals for ROR/Spezza etc? at least that away we can keep most of the team in tact.

What is so great about most of the team, other than that it is the Rangers that we love? As a team. But the individuals comprising the team are another story. We were not good enough to win it all, we were arguably more lucky than not as to a certain extent, and if we want to dominate, which is what is really need for best chance to win, we have to upgrade.

On top of that, too many guys that could stay need to be traded because they're entitled to more $$ and we can't afford the $. Are you suggesting we let guys walk for nothing?

---------------

Don't take my word for it (even though you should).
Consider our best poster, Ranger Boy, saying during the past year that
Marc Staal was nice, but he is healthy, now is the time to move him. "Business".
He previously said we may not be able to afford Zuc, and said to effect of it would be smart to get something for having developed him.
And I believe he was the poster who recently said Rangers may now regret paying so much to Girardi, and I believe if it was not explicit, the implication was we should not thumb our nose on a good offer for him.

This is on top of a lot of you also saying
Girardi does not fit AV system, or to that effect.
Surprisingly this was charged to a lesser extent at Staal by someone, citing skating as more paramount that his other shutdown skills.

I move these guys and Pou, who is good in spots but also expendable as a turnover/bad decision machine, and convert that into the supposedly be all ROR.

As eco's bones has correctly pointed out, ROR has downside and will not be good for our cap.
I only do that deal if he is the best return for Girardi/Staal, singly or jointly.

Ok, now ROR + Stepan + for Spezza + Zibby + .
NOTE: we would be getting more in these pluses.

Zibby is a very solid blue chip.
We can keep Spezza for a run, or I would prefer flip him.

Whether he would have more value now, and would prefer partial payment for Spezza to include a 2014 draft pick, or we would better off getting some use and then as soon as there is a key injury, flipping him then, all of this is valid points for discussion.

How can you demand [enough] change [meaningful enough to make not just a good team, but a team that can dominate and compete for the cup] and insist on virtually the same roster?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

What is so great about most of the team, other than that it is the Rangers that we love? As a team. But the individuals comprising the team are another story. We were not good enough to win it all, we were arguably more lucky than not as to a certain extent, and if we want to dominate, which is what is really need for best chance to win, we have to upgrade.

The team made the final. You sound ridiculous trying to downplay the accomplishment, especially considering its being used as a crutch to justify your typically insane trade proposals.

 

[haveandare]

Not enough to dominate and take the cup.
They will improve, yes, be better day 1, yes.
But they need more before we can honestly say we expect them to outplay head to head the Ducks, Kings, for sure and prob Hawks and Blues dep on their netminder's play. === let's be honest about that.

No team is going to dominate in today's NHL. This Kings team won 3 of their 4 finals games in OT and they were about as deep top to bottom as you can be.

Don't try to build a team with a goal that isn't reachable. The goal is to run with the big dogs, which this team is already capable of. How many times have we seen teams make the "over the top" trade and then lose? A lot more than we've seen them do it and win. Building a team just doesn't work that way.

I'd like to see the Ducks and Blues go on a run before I anoint them as the powerhouses that some already do. We can talk all day, but action is action, winning is winning. Actually being a good team determines whether or not you have a good team, not whether or not you have the things that HF gets all hot and bothered about.

The Kings and Hawks are great. This year's NYR team could have put the Hawks to the test, and they just barely lost to the Kings.

Massive turnover is not necessary at all. The kids will grow up and get better, and everyone else will become more comfortable with one another as they grow together if this team can be mostly kept intact. Plus, these guys are hungry for a cup now, I don't want half of them bringing that hunger to other teams.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

No team is going to dominate in today's NHL. This Kings team won 3 of their 4 finals games in OT and they were about as deep top to bottom as you can be.

Don't try to build a team with a goal that isn't reachable. The goal is to run with the big dogs, which this team is already capable of. How many times have we seen teams make the "over the top" trade and then lose? A lot more than we've seen them do it and win. Building a team just doesn't work that way.

I'd like to see the Ducks and Blues go on a run before I anoint them as the powerhouses that some already do. We can talk all day, but action is action, winning is winning. Actually being a good team determines whether or not you have a good team, not whether or not you have the things that HF gets all hot and bothered about.

The Kings and Hawks are great. This year's NYR team could have put the Hawks to the test, and they just barely lost to the Kings.

Massive turnover is not necessary at all. The kids will grow up and get better, and everyone else will become more comfortable with one another as they grow together if this team can be mostly kept intact. Plus, these guys are hungry for a cup now, I don't want half of them bringing that hunger to other teams.

I dont know whats funnier - bernmeister's insistence on a juggernaut team that steamrolls the competition in today's NHL, or the fact he really thinks his terrible proposals will get the Rangers there.

 

[bernmeister]

I wanted him for Del Zotto after our ECF run. Was hoping that maximizing value for DZ while buying during a player's low price could have worked to our advantage.

I don't know what it would take to get him. I doubt we can because the way Ott is headed is towards a rebuild.

MDZ was like 21st OA
Zibby was like 5th.
And he is viewed as properly developing while just making the show. He is not someone viewed in the second stage of bust like Yakupov.

Even if you didn't want him, and I'm not saying I would do this without other options you could flip Zib to any of a number of teams that would give a premium for him.

I could see adds like S. Moore + rights to Stralman + something else with Zib all to Buffalo and getting back Pysyk at minimum or Ristolainen at best plus their 1st = 2OA. That 2nd OA would likely = Draisatil or Ekblad.

 

[Gardner McKay]

What is so great about most of the team, other than that it is the Rangers that we love? As a team. But the individuals comprising the team are another story. We were not good enough to win it all, we were arguably more lucky than not as to a certain extent, and if we want to dominate, which is what is really need for best chance to win, we have to upgrade.

On top of that, too many guys that could stay need to be traded because they're entitled to more $$ and we can't afford the $. Are you suggesting we let guys walk for nothing?

---------------

Don't take my word for it (even though you should).
Consider our best poster, Ranger Boy, saying during the past year that
Marc Staal was nice, but he is healthy, now is the time to move him. "Business".
He previously said we may not be able to afford Zuc, and said to effect of it would be smart to get something for having developed him.
And I believe he was the poster who recently said Rangers may now regret paying so much to Girardi, and I believe if it was not explicit, the implication was we should not thumb our nose on a good offer for him.

This is on top of a lot of you also saying
Girardi does not fit AV system, or to that effect.
Surprisingly this was charged to a lesser extent at Staal by someone, citing skating as more paramount that his other shutdown skills.

I move these guys and Pou, who is good in spots but also expendable as a turnover/bad decision machine, and convert that into the supposedly be all ROR.

As eco's bones has correctly pointed out, ROR has downside and will not be good for our cap.
I only do that deal if he is the best return for Girardi/Staal, singly or jointly.

Ok, now ROR + Stepan + for Spezza + Zibby + .
NOTE: we would be getting more in these pluses.

Zibby is a very solid blue chip.
We can keep Spezza for a run, or I would prefer flip him.

Whether he would have more value now, and would prefer partial payment for Spezza to include a 2014 draft pick, or we would better off getting some use and then as soon as there is a key injury, flipping him then, all of this is valid points for discussion.

How can you demand [enough] change [meaningful enough to make not just a good team, but a team that can dominate and compete for the cup] and insist on virtually the same roster?

You have officially outdone yourself. That is the least intelligent proposal in the history of HF. Zibby hasn't done **** in the NHL and you are willing to flip two established NHL pieces (one that we don't even have) for Spezza and Zibenejad with the main goal just being Zibenejad? What the actual ****, bern?

 

[bernmeister]

What? How could Boyle in the top 6 not be a good idea?

Mark it.
Man has paid his dues and is approaching peak of his talented game.
he deserves a bump from 3rd line to 2nd.

If he has the right linemates and does not go to a Torts system, another AV type will continue to gel his game.

BTW, I see your and I raise you a

 

[silverfish]

The Leafs are holding their annual Cody Franson auction. The Rangers could get a good deal for Klein down the road if they keep Stralman. AV believes Klein is a top 4 D and management probably feels the same way. They keep Stralman and Klein becomes an asset to move when McIlrath is ready.

Klein played like a top-4 D-man in the playoffs. He was picking spots to join the rush well, and didn't struggle (too) mightily getting out of our own zone. I think he'll look very good paired with Staal.

The third pairing, with John Moore on the left and (insert player here) on the right could end up being a disaster, though.

Allen looked okay in his time up here. I'm fine with letting him, McIlrath, and Diaz battling it out for that 3RD spot. Also good with taking a look at Matt Greene on the UFA market. He shouldn't be looking at a contract any more than $3mil per. 2 years, $6 mil, limited NTC should lock him up.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

of course this depends on finding a center to put ahead of stepan, but IF the Rangers could do that, would it make sense to pay Brassard over 4M!? and I like the guy.. but can you really pay a 3C (Im not sold he's a 2C, even with how good that line played last year + his playoffs), can you really pay one 4M?

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

BTW did anyone see this?..

Could be blowing smoke... but if not..

Sakic: "We've had some conversations with his agent and we're going to continue that next week. He's part of our core, we're hopeful we can sign him. We have a structure and I know he understands that."
By structure, it was clarified later that it is Duchene at $6 million, and every other forward (for now) at equal or less. That being said, I expect Stastny to take the hometown discount.

 

[TheTakedown]

I bolded the important ones. Kadri. Leafs. Dumb. It is the leafs. They will do something stupid like trade him for a fraction of his value to the lowest bidder. That management team is one step away from turning into Garth Snow.

i think he'd be a big upgrade too...but at worst i think he replaces richards and puts us back to the team that got to the finals.

If McIlrath oor Allen is pulled up, they will be on the 3rd pairing with a 2nd pairing Defenseman...

McD-G
Allen-Klein
Moore-Stralman

OR

McD-G
Moore-Klein
Staal-McIlrath

In both scenarious, the 2nd and 3rd pairings would be getting 18 and 15 mins respectively while the 1st pairing is going to end up getting 24 mins per game...

However, I would expect those numbers to even out as the year goes on. I don't see any other way to ease these guys in without McD and G taking a huge workload in the first 3 months of the season

 

[TheTakedown]

wondering why one would think AV is much more knowledgeable than Torts; and when it comes to Richards, Torts did have the cojones to bench him when his play wasn't up to snuff in the playoffs.

That wasn't Torts... you could tell that had upper Management written all over that move... Richards played twice as bad that ENTIRE year and yet it took Torts nearly 60 games to get him out of the lineup...

 

[bernmeister]

Klein's contract would prevent me, if I were the Rangers GM, from moving him. Tons of value there. Unless some team knocked my socks off with a deal there's no way I'd trade him. Too much value.

There was a recent thread about Caps 1st this year for a top 4 D.

Klein for that 1st? do caps have better offer?

 

[TheTakedown]

I'm not a fan of this either. Moore just seems like a third pairing defenseman at best. If Del Zotto gets non-tendered, maybe bring him back as a #4 defenseman. Del Zotto was always fine when he played as a LD with a decent partner, and he and Stralman were a good pair in the past (probably more due to Stralman). It also allows Moore to stay on the third pair with Klein:

McD-Girardi
Del Zotto-Stralman
Moore-Klein

Not bad, probably slightly above average d-core.

I would actually be OK with this as well... gives us some "veteran" depth on the left side, as well as another puck moving defenseman...

Only down side is all of the puck movers are now stacked on the left side... Klein would be the most mobile piece on the right side, and he's going to be on the 3rd pairing... lol

How is that even possible?

Zucc produced 15 more points than Brassard did in the regular season.

There's absolutely no way I think Brassard is able to procure a contract similar to Zucc's.

I hope not... Our cap is dependant on him taking something close to his QO...

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

That wasn't Torts... you could tell that had upper Management written all over that move... Richards played twice as bad that ENTIRE year and yet it took Torts nearly 60 games to get him out of the lineup...

I dont buy that one bit.

Its just funny that Tortorella is cast as stubborn when it was AV that let Richards QB the powerplay into a ditch until the very end.

 

[TheTakedown]

There was a recent thread about Caps 1st this year for a top 4 D.

Klein for that 1st? do caps have better offer?

1st? More like a roster player and a 1st...

I think everyone forgets that Klein is noted as a top-10 defender around the league...

 

[TheTakedown]

I dont buy that one bit.

Its just funny that Tortorella is cast as stubborn when it was AV that let Richards QB the powerplay into a ditch until the very end.

i always got the feeling that Torts was offended that Richards had to be scratched... More like he thought he would hurt Richie's feelings...

Just my gut. Could be completely wrong.