I don't think this is nearly as critical as people are making it out to be. It's not in my top 3 or 4 things I would get done.
2014 CBJ Offseason Thread
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I don't think this is nearly as critical as people are making it out to be. It's not in my top 3 or 4 things I would get done.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
I was only putting it in there to cover my bases as I said "I expect only two moves this summer" to say there could possibly be a third. I'm not concerned about it either. (Also not "counting" re-signing current roster players as moves/additions.)
I just have horrible memories of his early years that I can't quite shake. I know he's much, MUCH better than that now - I've seen it - but I still flinch every time I see his name.
(Then again, Wiz had a similar "holy crap he sucks"/"holy crap he can score" development history, so I probably shouldn't be so twitchy. But, gahhh. Can't help it.)
I don't see anyone we could realistically replace Wiz with on the PP - other than maybe Niskanen, and again, he worries me. Not unless Savard's shot accuracy abruptly goes way, way up, and I think he's already done enough weed-like growth without us putting that kind of expectation on him so soon.
And call me sentimental, but I kind of want Tyutin to retire a Blue Jacket.
I have trouble moving these guys as well. Wiz has more impact on the PP than anyone on the ice imo, and Tyutin is better than he played this season........now maybe thats age setting in, but I tend to think its how banged up he was this season.
Young teams don't have to flip assets to improve, they just have to continue developing the right way. Forcing it is a bad move, there is no fast forward button to get to the SCF.
Not suggesting you stated anything one way or the other - just continuing the discussion.
Mayor Bee
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- Dec 29, 2008
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Agreed to a point. I'd have it in the top three or four things to get done, but I wouldn't give up any assets to get it done.
Pending UFA goalies include the Blues' pairing of Ryan Miller and Brian Elliott, plus Thomas Greiss and Jaroslav Halak. For a move toward an unproven guy, Alex Stalock, Chad Johnson, and Justin Peters are out there. For guys who are clearly at the end and might be willing to accept one last year, Marty Brodeur, Tim Thomas, and Evgeni Nabokov all fit the bill.
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
backup is in my top 3/4 things to get done, but yeah, there isn't a need to move assets for one...there will probably be some solid bodies available in FA and shouldn't cost a boat load...
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I say we trade for Hejda... then invest in a time machine, travel back to 2009, and swap him with his younger self. We can put him back just before he went on the UFA market and nobody will notice.
(And the best part about this move is that if you look carefully, there's signs that it may have already happened.
)Your asset is probably cap space. If it's not I'm not sure you've improved anything.
Not sure what you were agreeing with, that it's not as critical? If it's not why would it be in your top 3 or 4? For a point of reference I used top 3 or 4 things as a starting point for "critical".
I'm not interested in going into the aging veteran route (you said they were at the end, but listed them anyway), most of them didn't show that they would have been much of an improvement of McBackup. I mean Brodeur was ok; but he was signifiganty worse than Schneider. Thomas was meh, at best. He wasn't very good for a much better Stars team. He needs to retire. Nabakov; you've got a real opportunity to have both your goal tenders down at the same time.
The others backups you listed are going to be pricier; thus the cap space as an asset. There are a couple of upgrades in there, but you're also putting Bob back into a position where he might feel the organization doesn't have confidence in him
I think the best route is let your system develop and keep McBackup.
cslebn
80 forever
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I think this is the best point about the backup. We don't need an up and comer since our system seems to be stocked (Dansk, Forsberg, and Korpi??). We also don't need someone who's going to steal games really either since we know come playoffs, it will likely be Bob or bust (see this year even).
It just comes down to two things in my mind. 1) Do we need a backup to play more like 30 games? 2) Would it be better for Bob to have competition?
My Answers are 1) I don't think so, Bob seems to like to get more play (hit with more pucks) to do well (just an impression). 2) He did compete with Mason but it wasn't really till after that was done that he really locked it down. I think too much competition would be bad ala Bryz in Philly when Bob couldn't get enough time (back to #1).
We'll want Bob to carry the load. As far a competition; I would like that to be organic.
EspenK
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How about a guy who can have a better save %, GAA and win more than he loses? Lot's of back-ups did that this year.
cslebn
80 forever
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EspenK
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Karri Ramo?
Jonas Gustavsson?
Al Montoya?
Peter Budaj?
Gustavsson & Montoya had better numbers than McElhiney. As did Chad Johnson, Cam Talbot, Stalock and the guy from Pittsburgh.
Also Brian Elliot who has been pretty good the last couple of years except when I put him on my fantasy team.
Many of these guys are UFA's and probably are, in the case of the ones you didn't mention, probably would like to move to a starting spot. To me Elliot is a pretty good option. Might be a tad expensive but we have the room.
Just two or three more wins from the backup and we could have finished second.
I think it should be a priority but I'm not sure it is.
I think we need a new backup 100%. McElhinney just doesn't do it for me. I was never confident when he was in net. His positioning and structure is fine but his overall speed(glove/blocker, pads/footwork) all left me wanting more. Not the rebounds but the way he would react to them is another thing that would drive me crazy. Half the time it seemed like he didn't know where the puck even went. Frankly from the short time he played I thought McKenna was the better of the 2. I think we could use a younger, quicker guy back there with our defense. Even a goalie with more size would be nice. Greiss and Peters are 2 guys we should be interested in. I hate it when people refer to Bob or McElhinney as "big" goalies.
Also, SOMETHING needs to be done about our D. Too many offensive defensemen. Said the same thing last offseason. We have 3 guys who should be primarily 2nd/3rd pairing and PP time with little to no PK time. 1 of these guys makes 3 mil more a year and is the worst of the 3 when it comes to defense. This same guy has also played about 3 1/2 (220 min) full games more of pure PP time. But I guess that's what you need for 3 BOMBS and 50pts right? What do you think Savard and Nikitin could have done with all that time?
Some of you Umberger and Wiz defenders seem to think that getting points on the PP is some sort of separate EA SPORTS skill that these guys have. They don't. It's just obviously(or not I guess) way easier to score points when you have more guys on the ice than the other team.
Also, SOMETHING needs to be done about our D. Too many offensive defensemen. Said the same thing last offseason. We have 3 guys who should be primarily 2nd/3rd pairing and PP time with little to no PK time. 1 of these guys makes 3 mil more a year and is the worst of the 3 when it comes to defense. This same guy has also played about 3 1/2 (220 min) full games more of pure PP time. But I guess that's what you need for 3 BOMBS and 50pts right? What do you think Savard and Nikitin could have done with all that time?
Some of you Umberger and Wiz defenders seem to think that getting points on the PP is some sort of separate EA SPORTS skill that these guys have. They don't. It's just obviously(or not I guess) way easier to score points when you have more guys on the ice than the other team.
Wow I don't know how you thought you could get away with that argument. Some players, believe it or not, are much better on the PP than others. Here's the 5 on 4 scoring per 60 minutes. For reference, 5.71 points per 60 minutes is one of the top 5 or so numbers for a powerplay QB in the entire league.
Yes but it doesn't make them better players. It IS EASIER to score on the PP, you cant even argue that. That's why most people are "better" on the PP than ES. You also need the opportunities to produce. Look at the overall PP minutes and PP TOI per game for the team this year. These "advanced" lists with all these numbers are interesting to look at but they don't tell the whole picture. Look where Umberger is, what does that tell us? One of my main points about why we don't need Wiz is proven (I guess) in that list. Look where Savard is. He's higher than Wiz, so what does that tell us? Look who our bottom 3 guys are with any "production" 5 on 4. What does that tell you? Because I'd throw Calvert-Anisimov-Foligno out there as either 1 of my PP units next year.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
5-on-4 and 5-on-5 are played very differently, because the opportunities are very different (thanks to how players have to position themselves to make up for the deficiency). That's how, for example, JMFJ earns most of his minutes - he's bloody fantastic in the limited circumstances presented by special teams, and Generally Adequate the rest of the time. If it was the same throughout, JMFJ would be middle-pairing at best. (Which is also why the fancystats fetishists hate him, as they generally go with 5-on-5 data only because of worries about the sample sizes w/r/t special teams, but now I'm going on a tangent.)
Point being, it is an indisputable fact that some players are better proven performers on the PP than others. It's not necessarily a simple matter of "good 5-on-5" == "good PP" and so forth.
Dividing points by time on ice is not advanced. Its an easy stat, and its the first place you should look before making arguments about who would produce what given changes in ice time.
I agree with you about Savard to the extent that we've got to give him more powerplay time and see what he can do. I'm really bullish on him as a player (he often seems to look confused and awkward and then inexplicably put the puck in a really good place). But he hasn't had an enough time yet on the PP to really tell us much.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Sounds reasonable to me.
And just to harp more on the "5-on-5 and 5-on-4 are different" point... I don't get to go to games that often and so normally watch almost exclusively on TV. I tend to enjoy watching special teams more as a result. That's because, on special teams, you can see the entire play develop on TV easily because the whole thing's visible on camera. When playing 5-on-5... not so much (not unless you've got a truly excellent shift going on, and even then all you really see is "well, so-and-so was out of position, obviously, but WHY G-DDAMNIT WHY" because you couldn't see folks enter and there was no time to get set up). And I like being able to follow the play closely.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Sounds reasonable to me.
And just to harp more on the "5-on-5 and 5-on-4 are different" point... I don't get to go to games that often and so normally watch almost exclusively on TV. I tend to enjoy watching special teams more as a result. That's because, on special teams, you can see the entire play develop on TV easily because the whole thing's visible on camera. When playing 5-on-5... not so much (not unless you've got a truly excellent shift going on, and even then all you really see is "well, so-and-so was out of position, obviously, but WHY G-DDAMNIT WHY" because you couldn't see folks enter and there was no time to get set up). And I like being able to follow the play closely.
It's easier to score 5-on-4. Way easier. In fact, it's so easy, teams put out their worst players on the power play to help them feel better about themselves.
Jive Pawnbroker
One day next week
Besides adding another scorer and looking into a backup goalie upgrade (I'm OK with keeping Mac if it comes to that), I'd like to see the Jackets add a vet defenseman who can clear the crease on the PK. Maybe Prout can be that guy, but I'd like to see a vet added in that regard to help Bob get better looks at the puck coming from the point.
Jive Pawnbroker
One day next week
If he was the answer, I would have thought he would have played more than he did.
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