2014 CBJ Offseason Thread II (All proposals, "blog" rumors, speculation in here)

[FreeBoomer61]

I posted this over on the main trade forum, was wondering what you all think.

Here is a proposal for a massive swap of players between these two teams that I think could work out...

:
Eberle
Gagner
Petry
4th Rd Pick

:
Anisimov
Tyutin
Nikitin (willing to be signed, of course)
Umberger
2nd Rd Pick

or swap Eberle out for Perron if this is too heavily favored for the CBJ. Both teams get exactly what they need - For EDM, 2 physical forwards who can play a two-way game and score, as well as 2 solid defensemen. For CBJ, Umberger is gone (a big plus), a defensemen to fill the void of Tyutin (could play 16-18 min a game), frees up roster spot for young D prospects, and they get scoring they desperately need. Thoughts?

 

[CBJx614]

I posted this over on the main trade forum, was wondering what you all think.

Here is a proposal for a massive swap of players between these two teams that I think could work out...

:
Eberle
Gagner
Petry
4th Rd Pick

:
Anisimov
Tyutin
Nikitin (willing to be signed, of course)
Umberger
2nd Rd Pick

or swap Eberle out for Perron if this is too heavily favored for the CBJ. Both teams get exactly what they need - For EDM, 2 physical forwards who can play a two-way game and score, as well as 2 solid defensemen. For CBJ, Umberger is gone (a big plus), a defensemen to fill the void of Tyutin (could play 16-18 min a game), frees up roster spot for young D prospects, and they get scoring they desperately need. Thoughts?

I'd do it in a heartbeat for Eberle, and I'd still probably do it for Perron.

 

[blahblah]

So Eberle is the new Spezza. I'll start chowing down on my CBJ hat if he's part of our team next season.

 

[Cowumbus]

I would love eberle but doubt edm will agree to that

 

[major major]

I posted this over on the main trade forum, was wondering what you all think.

Here is a proposal for a massive swap of players between these two teams that I think could work out...

:
Eberle
Gagner
Petry
4th Rd Pick

:
Anisimov
Tyutin
Nikitin (willing to be signed, of course)
Umberger
2nd Rd Pick

or swap Eberle out for Perron if this is too heavily favored for the CBJ. Both teams get exactly what they need - For EDM, 2 physical forwards who can play a two-way game and score, as well as 2 solid defensemen. For CBJ, Umberger is gone (a big plus), a defensemen to fill the void of Tyutin (could play 16-18 min a game), frees up roster spot for young D prospects, and they get scoring they desperately need. Thoughts?

It doesn't make sense to add Petry to this deal. At times he's been Edmonton's best defenceman, and we don't really need him. If we're talking about Nikitin going and Erixon and Golo (two NHL quality defencemen) battling for the #7 spot, then we still have more than enough on the backend, and losing Tyutin doesn't necessitate bringing in another replacement.

I think the deal is even without Petry, as well.

Also there is an important distinction between Eberle and Perron. Eberle is a much more consistent topline scorer. That is our biggest organizational need. Not top-six, but top line. I would actually consider Perron a top liner, but he's not at Eberle's level and we shouldn't consider them interchangeable.

 

[FreeBoomer61]

It doesn't make sense to add Petry to this deal. At times he's been Edmonton's best defenceman, and we don't really need him. If we're talking about Nikitin going and Erixon and Golo (two NHL quality defencemen) battling for the #7 spot, then we still have more than enough on the backend, and losing Tyutin doesn't necessitate bringing in another replacement.

I think the deal is even without Petry, as well.

Also there is an important distinction between Eberle and Perron. Eberle is a much more consistent topline scorer. That is our biggest organizational need. Not top-six, but top line. I would actually consider Perron a top liner, but he's not at Eberle's level and we shouldn't consider them interchangeable.

Yeah, that is why I added that if the trade favored CBJ too much, switch out Eberle for Perron because of said difference in value. Completely agree with you saying Eberle is in a different class of "top line" quality forwards.

I do think, though, that we will need some defensive help coming back (Petry). Even though we have Golo and Erixon in the system, that doesn't mean our organizational depth at D is where it was this past season - because of the departures of Nikitin and Tyutin in this deal.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

sure! that works too...I know, going beyond fancy stats, that I noticed Foligno far less on the ice when he wasn't with Joey then when he was...so I think its nearly imperative that we keep those two together some way...

Foligno is not, nor will he ever be, a top line winger.

 

[major major]

I do think, though, that we will need some defensive help coming back (Petry). Even though we have Golo and Erixon in the system, that doesn't mean our organizational depth at D is where it was this past season - because of the departures of Nikitin and Tyutin in this deal.

There's no way to make Petry more valuable to us than to Edmonton, so it just doesn't make sense to bring him here. We definitely won't have a depth problem on the backend, though perhaps we would be too young. That suggests that maybe Ference would make a better fit for a trade (he's overpaid and not nearly as valuable as Petry, but we might have a better relative need for him than Edmonton.) I'd actually prefer to see if we could just resign Nick Schultz on the cheap, but Edmonton might need to clear some bodies if they bring on Tyutin and Nikitin, so that also points to Ference.

 

[major major]

Foligno is not, nor will he ever be, a top line winger.

Obviously not, he's a complementary winger. But if he makes Johansen more effective, who cares?

 

[thebus2288*]

Foligno is not, nor will he ever be, a top line winger.

But let me guess Loui Eriksson and Jussi Jokinen are? Do you consider Jenner as a "top line wing"? You don't just put your top 3 forwards or top 2 wingers on the 1st line. More than half the teams in the league have a guy on their 1st line that is, at best, just as good as Foligno. Behind Johansen, he has the best hands on the team. He's just behind that TOP tier of guys when it comes to puck control and cycling in the offensive zone. I'd be happy next year with Foligno and Calvert on the top line. Then go Horton-Dubi-Cam/Jenner-Anisimov-Wennberg/Letestu-Mack-Skille (Boll, Hjalmarson)

Personally I think Wennberg makes the team. I can see his game/impact starting out looking like a more skilled Letestu. I also think we need help more on defense than we do up front.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Obviously not, he's a complementary winger. But if he makes Johansen more effective, who cares?

Um, Joey doesn't need a winger to make him "more" effective. He's a stud.

When you have a #1 center, it's best to give them a skill #1 winger. Not some grinder who is popular with the fans.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

But let me guess Loui Eriksson and Jussi Jokinen are? Do you consider Jenner as a "top line wing"? You don't just put your top 3 forwards or top 2 wingers on the 1st line. More than half the teams in the league have a guy on their 1st line that is, at best, just as good as Foligno. Behind Johansen, he has the best hands on the team. He's just behind that TOP tier of guys when it comes to puck control and cycling in the offensive zone. I'd be happy next year with Foligno and Calvert on the top line. Then go Horton-Dubi-Cam/Jenner-Anisimov-Wennberg/Letestu-Mack-Skille (Boll, Hjalmarson)

Personally I think Wennberg makes the team. I can see his game/impact starting out looking like a more skilled Letestu. I also think we need help more on defense than we do up front.

I've never advocated for Loui or Jussi once on this board. Nor would I ever.

I would be in favor of the front office giving up the necessary asking price if it can get it's hand on a top line winger like Bobby Ryan or Jordan Eberle or Alex Semin in a trade.

 

[major major]

Um, Joey doesn't need a winger to make him "more" effective. He's a stud.

Um. Joey plays better with some players than others. True for everyone. That's what we're talking about, isn't it, who plays best with Joey?

When you have a #1 center, it's best to give them a skill #1 winger. Not some grinder who is popular with the fans.

I agree, the chemistry has to be really good to overwhelm that. And in this case, the chemistry is that good.

 

[Viqsi]

Um, Joey doesn't need a winger to make him "more" effective. He's a stud.

Need? No. Can use? Yes. Can use certain ones better than others? Absolutely.

When you have a #1 center, it's best to give them a skill #1 winger. Not some grinder who is popular with the fans.

Setting aside how difficult those are to come by, such folks may not actually improve as much with Johansen.

Consider the following hypothetical - let's say we get a "#1 skill winger" (we'll call him, say, "Puckizen") who's normally in the 25-45-70 range for production each year (pretty damn good). We end up with the following possible scenarios:
1) A Johansen-"Puckizen" combo that scores a combined 55 goals and 120 points along with Dubi and Foligno scoring a combined 30 goals and 70 points. Total: 85 goals, 190 points.
2) A Johansen-Foligno combo that scores a combined 50 goals and 115 points along with Dubi and "Puckizen" scoring a combined 40 goals and 85 points. Total: 90 goals, 200 points.

Going by the position advocated in your post, Scenario #1 is better because this way we're not playing "grinders" on the first line.

 

[jackets4life]

Um, Joey doesn't need a winger to make him "more" effective. He's a stud.

Yes he does. Look at the role Jenner plays. Without him getting in on the forecheck and winning board battles, which he does better than anyone on the team, we don't have the same amount of possession and Joey doesn't score 5-10 of his goals this season.

 

[major major]

Yes he does. Look at the role Jenner plays. Without him getting in on the forecheck and winning board battles, which he does better than anyone on the team, we don't have the same amount of possession and Joey doesn't score 5-10 of his goals this season.

You're forgetting that Jenner wasn't on his line the first half of the year. Joey had Foligno in that spot, and like Jenner he excelled in winning the puck and getting it to the man with the shot. So in that sense i agree with the 5-10 goals thing, but it's not just Jenner.

 

[CBJx614]

Yes he does. Look at the role Jenner plays. Without him getting in on the forecheck and winning board battles, which he does better than anyone on the team, we don't have the same amount of possession and Joey doesn't score 5-10 of his goals this season.

Also putting somebody who can finish on his wing gives him probably another 5-10 goals/assists.
I don't know how many times Johansen made an amazing play to open up space or create a rebound and his wingers just couldn't finish.

At this point, anyone is an upgrade over Skille/Tropp/Comeau on his wing..

 

[Cowumbus]

This is not like an impact guy but what about getting Benoit Pouliot at 1.4 mil a season. move umberger for gagner

Jenner Johansen Horton
Foligno Anisimov Gagner
Pouliot Dubinsky Atkinson
Calvert Mackenzie Letestu

Could then probably still shop for a top 6 wing as well

 

[CBJx614]

The only thing about all these trades everyone proposes is the fact that Hjalmarsson and Wennberg have a legitimate shot t make the team this year. Hjalmarsson was a hot commodity that we won out on and I think he is the "speed" JK wanted to add in the off-season, and Wennberg very well may be the "skill"

Of course it's all speculation, but I think it's going to be a battle for roster spots this year.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The only thing about all these trades everyone proposes is the fact that Hjalmarsson and Wennberg have a legitimate shot t make the team this year. Hjalmarsson was a hot commodity that we won out on and I think he is the "speed" JK wanted to add in the off-season, and Wennberg very well may be the "skill"

Of course it's all speculation, but I think it's going to be a battle for roster spots this year.

Scan back through this thread for proposed rosters and you'll come across more than half that include one or the other.

 

[Cowumbus]

To Cbj
Lupul

To Leafs
1st
Or
2nd + Prospect

Thoughts?

 

[SuperGenius]

To Cbj
Lupul

To Leafs
1st
Or
2nd + Prospect

Thoughts?

Let me ask you the question you should ask yourself with every proposal. Why does the other team do it?

 

[stevo61]

To Cbj
Lupul

To Leafs
1st
Or
2nd + Prospect

Thoughts?

Thoughts are I've seen more Columbus proposals in the last week then i have all year and I'm just ready for the draft and July 1st. I know you want to float out some thoughts that should make us a bit better in the immediate future but we have a playoff caliber team and one of the better prospect pools in the league. I'm all for letting the team grow and then down the road if guys like Wennberg are ready to push Anisimov or whoever out I'd be game. We have a guy who we can really trust drafting which is nice.
Umberger obviously and I've started getting on board with the thought of Tyutin. I like Tyutin a lot but he lost a step this year and I'd probably be good with trying to get the best value from him possible just incase he's trending downhill

 

[TheOllieC]

I too think it would be wise to see what could be had for Tyutin at this point in time. Maybe not this offseason, but if Murray, Erixon or any other top-4 option come out in the fall and are extremely impressive it could be explored.

 

[major major]

This is not like an impact guy but what about getting Benoit Pouliot at 1.4 mil a season. move umberger for gagner

Jenner Johansen Horton
Foligno Anisimov Gagner
Pouliot Dubinsky Atkinson
Calvert Mackenzie Letestu

Could then probably still shop for a top 6 wing as well

I like the Gagner thing, but Pouliot is going to cost more than that and he's not an upgrade on Calvert. Look at the numbers.