Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread

[Raspewtin]

I vehemently disagree.

We have McD, Staal, Girardi, and Klein on D, likely one of the "tougher" D-cores in the league.

We lack skill on defence, not toughness. We only have two regular defencemen with above average skill, and one of them is 1000 years old.

I disagree with this. Our D-core outside of Staal and sometimes Klein is soft as **** when it comes to engagement in the crease.

The Kings set up camp in front of Hank all series. No one even tried to do anything. I remember Willie Mitchell scoring on the PP in game 2 because Dwight King was sitting there not even trying to stay in position. Stralman was right there and didn't even try to move him. That's a problem. We have to score in different ways, but we have to be able to defend in different ways too.

Now, do we need McIlrath necessarily? Eh. I think we need more of a big d-core. Someone who can shut up the net front presences of other teams. Staal should be that guy but I don't see it enough from him.

 

[haveandare]

I'm not avoiding reality, and not to downplay a well-thought out response, but I'm just kind of tired of explaining myself.

Maybe you guys are right. Let's keep it up how we're going now, 'cause I'm sure Duclair can fire a mean knuckle puck, and Miller is the next LaFontaine.

The same Duclair who put up 99 points in the Q last year (with 50 goals in 59 games) when Drouin, for example, had 108?

If that's not drafting for skill, I don't know what is.

They took a flier on two skill guys in the 3rd last year. One is Duclair, who doubled his scoring in the Q from the year prior, and was outscored by only 5 skaters, two of whom were first round picks for their NHL teams. The other is Buch, who in the KHL, as an 18 year old, held his own very, very well for that age.

And yeah, maybe Miller will be a good NHLer. He's gone PPG at the AHL level. Now's the time to sink or swim.

Duclair is very skilled, and Miller may be a good/very good NHLer down the line. And yeah, let's just forget about the half a team worth of homegrown players that they've drafted and brought up to the NHL in the last few years alone. They didn't hold on to them, and that may or may not be a mistake, but that's got little to do with making choices at the draft.

The drafting is fine IMO. The "problem" is that they don't get high enough picks with any consistency, and that they're somewhat addicted to trading away firsts. As far as the choices that are actually made go, I think they've done very well.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I think the notion of a big, tough, mean, crease clearing defenseman is more romantic than the actuality of whats happening in the league.

20 years ago, there were alot more 6'5" monsters on the blueline. As the league has transitioned to more of a speed/puck possession oriented game, these guys are slowly being phased out.

If McIlrath makes it, it'll be more about him being able to navigate the speed of the NHL and less about him dominating the opposition physically.

yup.

the idea that mcilrath could be a meaner zdeno chara or a young chris pronger seems like more of a dream than reality today. both based on his development and the changing face of pro hockey.

i understand why gordie made the pick. it was a classic swing for the fences play. a love affair with the potential for a homerun on a kid who had size and fighting but skills that werent quite up to snuff. he interviewed really well and by all accounts, is a top notch citizen. a kid like this could develop into a unique freak who could both dominate physically and play an important role while the puck was actually moving. he could be a difference maker.

then reality set in.

first, hes been fighting injuries. thats slowed his progress. his skating wasnt great before and the knee didnt help.

then he showed some weakness in the game processing area. his game awareness development wasnt keeping pace with his physical strength development. he seemed a step slow and a thought or 2 behind. his dominance of the ahl was not evident. his play improved but didnt sparkle.

lastly, after 4 drafts, there are kids in the system that have either caught up or passed him by making a spot for him less likely and making many question, not only his potential for impact, but whether or not he even has a spot to win.

mcd, moore, skjei, allen, bodie and others all need to play.

 

[haveandare]

yup.

the idea that mcilrath could be a meaner zdeno chara or a young chris pronger seems like more of a dream than reality today. both based on his development and the changing face of pro hockey.

i understand why gordie made the pick. it was a classic swing for the fences play. a love affair with the potential for a homerun on a kid who had size and fighting but skills that werent quite up to snuff. he interviewed really well and by all accounts, is a top notch citizen. a kid like this could develop into a unique freak who could both dominate physically and play an important role while the puck was actually moving. he could be a difference maker.

then reality set in.

first, hes been fighting injuries. thats slowed his progress. his skating wasnt great before and the knee didnt help.

then he showed some weakness in the game processing area. his game awareness development wasnt keeping pace with his physical strength development. he seemed a step slow and a thought or 2 behind. his dominance of the ahl was not evident. his play improved but didnt sparkle.

lastly, after 4 drafts, there are kids in the system that have either caught up or passed him by making a spot for him less likely and making many question, not only his potential for impact, but whether or not he even has a spot to win.

mcd, moore, skjei, allen, bodie and others all need to play.

This is all extremely pessimistic IMO. Players get hurt. He was hurt and now he's better. It's not a nagging, lingering thing that is effecting him all the time. He improved in the AHL. Improvement is key. He "doesn't sparkle" I guess? Pretty subjective judgement. Who has passed him and made his even getting a spot unlikely? Allen is the only one who is even debatable IMO. After him, McI is the next guy in line.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

This is all extremely pessimistic IMO. Players get hurt. He was hurt and now he's better. It's not a nagging, lingering thing that is effecting him all the time. He improved in the AHL. Improvement is key. He "doesn't sparkle" I guess? Pretty subjective judgement. Who has passed him and made his even getting a spot unlikely? Allen is the only one who is even debatable IMO. After him, McI is the next guy in line.

You know what type of players get hurt more often? The ones like McIlrath, where physicality is an integral part of their game.

 

[offdacrossbar]

This is all extremely pessimistic IMO. Players get hurt. He was hurt and now he's better. It's not a nagging, lingering thing that is effecting him all the time. He improved in the AHL. Improvement is key. He "doesn't sparkle" I guess? Pretty subjective judgement. Who has passed him and made his even getting a spot unlikely? Allen is the only one who is even debatable IMO. After him, McI is the next guy in line.

fair enough. good take but....

dylan needs to be better. soon.

brady skjei is the next in line bro. his overall game is projected to be high end. not many holes if hes seen through the prism of a defense first type player. hes the next stud dman with the game to play 10 years.

conor allen offers more than mcilrath right now. he was the better dman last year in hartford and shows again, the better all around prospect.

if john moore has a good 14-15 ( and i think he will) at 23-24 yrs old, hes gonna have a spot long term. his brings the skating and puck moving potential we lack.

staal staring at a long term deal maybe ? girardi signed. klein same for a few more. all 3 play more mcilrath type game than the others.

wheres mac gonna get his minutes ?

 

[haveandare]

You know what type of players get hurt more often? The ones like McIlrath, where physicality is an integral part of their game.

I'd bet that for every physical d-man you can name who has been injured too much, someone else can name one that hasn't been injured much at all. Hockey is a physical game. Everyone gets beat up.

 

[haveandare]

fair enough. good take but....

dylan needs to be better. soon.

brady skjei is the next in line bro. his overall game is projected to be high end. not many holes if hes seen through the prism of a defense first type player. hes the next stud dman with the game to play 10 years.

conor allen offers more than mcilrath right now. he was the better dman last year in hartford and shows again, the better all around prospect.

if john moore has a good 14-15 ( and i think he will) at 23-24 yrs old, hes gonna have a spot long term. his brings the skating and puck moving potential we lack.

staal staring at a long term deal maybe ? girardi signed. klein same for a few more. all 3 play more mcilrath type game than the others.

wheres mac gonna get his minutes ?

I don't disagree. If he could clearly separate himself from the pack and be the next d-man for this team, I'd love it. Personally, I have trouble deciding if he and Allen being neck and neck is a slight on McI's development, or a compliment toward Allen's abilities, or some mix of both. I'll be the first to admit I don't watch as much Hartford as I used to, so maybe you or someone else could comment more on that.

Skjei is "next in line" in that he has the highest ceiling of the "close" d prospects. The guy is not even pro yet though, let's not put the cart before the horse here. If he's a future stud, that's great. But I'll believe it when I see it on a professional level. McI's pro game doesn't sparkle, but Skjei's doesn't exist. And I don't mean, therefore he's not as good as McI, it's just that he's an unknown at that level. He may well be better than McI at it, but to say either way for sure is to guess to an extent.

If Moore has a great year this year, then the team has a great problem to deal with. I think it's possible that he improves because he's young and he's got insane wheels, but again, let's worry about the logjam that might cause when it looks like that's a realistic possibility.

IMO, if Staal is re-signed, McD, Staal and G are locked in. Everyone else is on a hot seat to an extent. Of those, I'd say that Klein is on the hottest seat (not counting Boyle who is signed for the short term) because of his cap hit. He's a great 3rd pairing guy, and a good 2nd pairing guy, but if you play him on the third, which is where he's the most valuable IMO, you're spending a good amount of money on a third pairing guy. More than you should with today's cap. Boyle IMO might not even be here next year. Moore, again, if he can jump up, that's awesome, but let's deal with that when we have to.

I don't think things are as tight as they look. If kids can jump up, people can be moved. About half of the D is "open" so to speak. If Sjkei, Allen and McI all prove that they're worth NHL spots in the next two years, one of them can get dealt, one of the other guys can get dealt - lots can happen. And that's an "if". No, there won't be many spots with huge minutes, but we're talking new NHL players. They likely won't be ready for that responsibility, and if they are, keeping them under what they're capable because of depth is a good thing.

 

[Trxjw]

fair enough. good take but....

dylan needs to be better. soon.

brady skjei is the next in line bro. his overall game is projected to be high end. not many holes if hes seen through the prism of a defense first type player. hes the next stud dman with the game to play 10 years.

conor allen offers more than mcilrath right now. he was the better dman last year in hartford and shows again, the better all around prospect.

if john moore has a good 14-15 ( and i think he will) at 23-24 yrs old, hes gonna have a spot long term. his brings the skating and puck moving potential we lack.

staal staring at a long term deal maybe ? girardi signed. klein same for a few more. all 3 play more mcilrath type game than the others.

wheres mac gonna get his minutes ?

No, no he doesn't. Brady Skjei plays for Minnesota and hasn't seen a lick of professional ice in his entire life. Connor Allen and John Moore are not right handed defenders. AV likes lefty/righty pairings. He's not fighting for ice time with those players. If anything, Connor Allen and Skjei are going to make John Moore expendable unless he can show that he can be more than a #6 defender that can do more than skate and rip a big shot.

McIlrath has Girardi, Boyle and Klein ahead of him for two more years if none of them are moved or retire. That gives the team plenty of time to let him develop properly and win a spot. The only person putting him on this "hurry up" timeline is you.

Allen is 24 years old. If he wasn't playing as well as, or better than McIlrath in Hartford, he wouldn't even be considered a legitimate NHL prospect.

Your unwavering negativity around this kid is admirable, but it's getting really, really tired at this point.

 

[GAGLine]

fair enough. good take but....

dylan needs to be better. soon.

brady skjei is the next in line bro. his overall game is projected to be high end. not many holes if hes seen through the prism of a defense first type player. hes the next stud dman with the game to play 10 years.

conor allen offers more than mcilrath right now. he was the better dman last year in hartford and shows again, the better all around prospect.

if john moore has a good 14-15 ( and i think he will) at 23-24 yrs old, hes gonna have a spot long term. his brings the skating and puck moving potential we lack.

staal staring at a long term deal maybe ? girardi signed. klein same for a few more. all 3 play more mcilrath type game than the others.

wheres mac gonna get his minutes ?

Skjei plays the left side. It's more likely that he replaces Staal or Moore at some point.

Allen plays both sides, but is a lefty. He's also 2 years older than McIlrath. Is it really a surprise that he's more polished at this point in his career? We all knew McI was a project when we picked him. If you want to be fair, then compare McI now to Allen 2 years ago.

John Moore is a year older and has played 206 career games, yet he hasn't shown significant improvement during that time. Maybe he will put it all together at some point.

This is the list of our other right-handed dmen prospects:

Zamorsky
Donnay
Andersson
Noreau
Hughes
Kampfer
Mantha
Nanne

Which of those guys do you see passing McIlrath in the next 2 years?

 

[Beacon]

Now, do we need McIlrath necessarily? Eh. I think we need more of a big d-core. Someone who can shut up the net front presences of other teams. Staal should be that guy but I don't see it enough from him.

We don't need him ready by October, we need him ready by April when the real season begins and hockey gets tougher and more defensive. Assuming he works hard, McIlrath will be ready by then.

My assumption is that he doesn't stick in October, but does midway through the season. A big tough defenseman who can skate and shoot will do a lot of good for this team.

 

[Raspewtin]

You know what type of players get hurt more often? The ones like McIlrath, where physicality is an integral part of their game.

He got his knee blown out by a teammate in practice. And he reaggravated that injury temporarily and came back strong. I don't see what that injury has to do with his game.

 

[offdacrossbar]

No, no he doesn't. Brady Skjei plays for Minnesota and hasn't seen a lick of professional ice in his entire life. Connor Allen and John Moore are not right handed defenders. AV likes lefty/righty pairings. He's not fighting for ice time with those players. If anything, Connor Allen and Skjei are going to make John Moore expendable unless he can show that he can be more than a #6 defender that can do more than skate and rip a big shot.

McIlrath has Girardi, Boyle and Klein ahead of him for two more years if none of them are moved or retire. That gives the team plenty of time to let him develop properly and win a spot. The only person putting him on this "hurry up" timeline is you.

Allen is 24 years old. If he wasn't playing as well as, or better than McIlrath in Hartford, he wouldn't even be considered a legitimate NHL prospect.

Your unwavering negativity around this kid is admirable, but it's getting really, really tired at this point.

hurry up ? 6 years maybe before hes ready ? maybe 5....but no likely. 14-15 season is upon us. will he play this year and where ? were hardly hurrying him. hes got no spot i can see.

brady skjei is the better prospect by alot. lets ask slats about deals he was involved in and whom do you think was more in play ?? skjei or mac? which guys name came up more? i think we both know the answer.

conor allen can play both sides and is the better prospect. he played better last season. he looked more ready. i saw alot of him and he looked the better player. really.

mac was drafted on june 25th 2010. didnt like it then. dont now. im consistent.

not all d prospects take 6 years to play.

cam fowler ?? hello. heck, even jarred tinordi will beat mac to a full time nhl job. would you switch those 2 now ?

unwavering negativity or unwavering reality. your call.

 

[Raspewtin]

hurry up ? 6 years maybe before hes ready ? maybe 5....but no likely. 14-15 season is upon us. will he play this year and where ? were hardly hurrying him. hes got no spot i can see.

brady skjei is the better prospect by alot. lets ask slats about deals he was involved in and whom do you think was more in play ?? skjei or mac? which guys name came up more? i think we both know the answer.

conor allen can play both sides and is the better prospect. he played better last season. he looked more ready. i saw alot of him and he looked the better player. really.

mac was drafted on june 25th 2010. didnt like it then. dont now. im consistent.

not all d prospects take 6 years to play.

cam fowler ?? hello. heck, even jarred tinordi will beat mac to a full time nhl job. would you switch those 2 now ?

unwavering negativity or unwavering reality. your call.

Hate to break it to you but a prospect taking longer than other prospects doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Cam Fowler making the NHL after one year has nothing to do with McIlrath's development and never did.

Tinordi got a 22 game cup (could you call that a cup? I don't know) and did **** all with it. Montreal need him to be ready cause their D sucks and are softer than a pillow. He's also the worse prospect. The Rangers have the luxury of not needing McIlrath to be ready right away. And don't even get me started on the Habs playing him just to goon it up against Ottawa.

If we had a spot open for him like in your ******** analogy, what happens if he's not ready and caught with our pants down? Having 3 RHD's signed beyond this year equating to the organization not thinking McIlrath is ready is just crap.

If McIlrath forces himself onto the roster, Klein is gonzo. Simple I'd think.

 

[haveandare]

hurry up ? 6 years maybe before hes ready ? maybe 5....but no likely. 14-15 season is upon us. will he play this year and where ? were hardly hurrying him. hes got no spot i can see.

brady skjei is the better prospect by alot. lets ask slats about deals he was involved in and whom do you think was more in play ?? skjei or mac? which guys name came up more? i think we both know the answer.

conor allen can play both sides and is the better prospect. he played better last season. he looked more ready. i saw alot of him and he looked the better player. really.

mac was drafted on june 25th 2010. didnt like it then. dont now. im consistent.

not all d prospects take 6 years to play.

cam fowler ?? hello. heck, even jarred tinordi will beat mac to a full time nhl job. would you switch those 2 now ?

unwavering negativity or unwavering reality. your call.

Skjei is better than a guy on the line of being an NHL d-man "by a lot," yet he went back to school instead of going pro? I find that very, very hard to believe.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Skjei is better than a guy on the line of being an NHL d-man "by a lot," yet he went back to school instead of going pro? I find that very, very hard to believe.

brady doesnt have a spot. he doesnt want to play in the ahl. hell stay in college one more year and go directly to the nhl. hell be ready by then and hell push for a job sept of 15.

he sees mcd kicking ass. they talk. hes a product of the same system.

cant say i blame him.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Hate to break it to you but a prospect taking longer than other prospects doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Cam Fowler making the NHL after one year has nothing to do with McIlrath's development and never did.

Tinordi got a 22 game cup (could you call that a cup? I don't know) and did **** all with it. Montreal need him to be ready cause their D sucks and are softer than a pillow. He's also the worse prospect. The Rangers have the luxury of not needing McIlrath to be ready right away. And don't even get me started on the Habs playing him just to goon it up against Ottawa.

If we had a spot open for him like in your ******** analogy, what happens if he's not ready and caught with our pants down? Having 3 RHD's signed beyond this year equating to the organization not thinking McIlrath is ready is just crap.

If McIlrath forces himself onto the roster, Klein is gonzo. Simple I'd think.

tinordi vs mac is a good discussion.

i like tinordis potential better. better skater, actually hes bigger and just as mean. both dont handle the puck very well. tinordi seems like hell get his shot sooner too.

im hoping mac does indeed force his way. makes us better, more cap efficient and younger.

 

[haveandare]

brady doesnt have a spot. he doesnt want to play in the ahl. hell stay in college one more year and go directly to the nhl. hell be ready by then and hell push for a job sept of 15.

he sees mcd kicking ass. they talk. hes a product of the same system.

cant say i blame him.

If he was better than a borderline NHL prospect like McI by a lot, he'd be able to crack the lineup one would think, especially given the team's cap situation and the fact that he'd be on an ELC.

 

[Trxjw]

hurry up ? 6 years maybe before hes ready ? maybe 5....but no likely. 14-15 season is upon us. will he play this year and where ? were hardly hurrying him. hes got no spot i can see.

So what is really the point here? Skjei would have no spot. Allen has no spot. You're the one who said he "needs to be better soon", not me. So if there's no spot for him anyway, and he's not competing against those guys for a spot right now, why does he need to get better "soon"?

brady skjei is the better prospect by alot. lets ask slats about deals he was involved in and whom do you think was more in play ?? skjei or mac? which guys name came up more? i think we both know the answer.

That's not even remotely relevant, and, again, they play different sides of the ice and one of them is in college. Hardly an issue.

conor allen can play both sides and is the better prospect. he played better last season. he looked more ready. i saw alot of him and he looked the better player. really.

Again, he's a lefty and the coach doesn't like lefties on the right side. If there's no spot for McIlrath, then there's no spot for Allen. Allen isn't beating anyone off of this roster.

mac was drafted on june 25th 2010. didnt like it then. dont now. im consistent.

not all d prospects take 6 years to play.

cam fowler ?? hello. heck, even jarred tinordi will beat mac to a full time nhl job. would you switch those 2 now ?

No they don't, but again, that's not even relevant. Every post you make regarding McIlrath is consistently based around other players, not of how he's actually developing as an individual. That's why I can't take you seriously on this topic. I don't give a crap about Tinordi. We have a much deeper blue line than Montreal, so it's not imperative that McIlrath makes the roster immediately. Tinordi in 22 games looked like McIlrath did in 2. He's also nowhere near as mean as McIlrath is like I see you implied in another post.

unwavering negativity or unwavering reality. your call.

Unwavering alternate reality, perhaps.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Clark said Skjei is ready. Skjei wants to develop his offense and get stronger.

Next fall he will be competing for a spot in camp.

Skjei's skill, brains, skating, hands, positioning, stick work are all pro ready. Getting offensive production out of it is what he needs to work on. And he wants to be stronger when he faces grown men

If McIlrath can keep up with the speed of the NHL game, in particular, if he can pivot and rub out fast skating forecheckers, then he will make it fine. If he struggles with fast forwards bearing down on him, then that is an issue.

 

[Ola]

Clark said Skjei is ready. Skjei wants to develop his offense and get stronger.

Next fall he will be competing for a spot in camp.

Skjei's skill, brains, skating, hands, positioning, stick work are all pro ready. Getting offensive production out of it is what he needs to work on. And he wants to be stronger when he faces grown men

If McIlrath can keep up with the speed of the NHL game, in particular, if he can pivot and rub out fast skating forecheckers, then he will make it fine. If he struggles with fast forwards bearing down on him, then that is an issue.

If Skjei does his part and we do our part, he will become a player. And possibly even a top 4 D, or even a good one. That's great for a kid picked when he was picked no doubt.

His game is also pretty far along and so forth.

But I am not quite sure if his overall game is pro-ready. Going by the WJCs, he had to play a pretty conservative style at that level. I definitely think its the best move for him to stay in college another year and work on his overall game.

 

[Beacon]

Skjei is likely AHL-ready, but not NHL-ready.

Slats is doing a really good job making sure we are always loaded with defensemen. It's always a challenge to have enough of them because defensemen tend to bust a lot (Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Kundratek, Valentenko, Gilroy), but our cupboard is always full of blueliners. Not too many bust either, if compared to most defensemen prospects.

 

[Miz]

Jim Cerny: Feliks: Jeff Gorton did say that the Rangers are not done up front this summer...he said a forward could come in a trade, more likely than a FA signing at this point, but that the Rangers are aware there are holes to fill up front...they added much organizational depth both at forward and on D with their summer signings so far--the likes of Mueller, Tarnasky, Hunwick, Kapfer, etc--but I am pretty sure that Gorton was speaking about a higher end player when he made his comments last week

http://blueshirtsunited.com/posts/6431/live-chat-replay#.U78dT4X7F_k

Thats from the Live Chat from this afternoon. Any idea who they could be targeting?

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Skjei is a shut-down defender, so his game will tend to be more conservative. He isn't going to wow you with any fancy deke or end-to-end rushing on a regular basis.

He plays a very simple game. His fundamentals and positioning are strengths. Simple plays with the puck.

He wants to work on his offense. Not sure if that means he wants to take more risks or if it means he wants to work on shooting the puck more, or both.

But expecting him to be overly dynamic, i think one would be dissappointed. He is a sutle player, smart player, and high-end skater.

IMO, if the offense never develops, that's fine. He will be a shut-down guy with high-end mobility.

I know a lot of folks will see his skating and wonder why he doesn't produce more, and/or compare him to McDonagh, but IMO that isn't fair to him. I think the way he sees and thinks the game will be a tick below McDonagh, but he won't be McDonagh. Then again, not a whole lot of players are or will be. I think maybe a decent comparison could be a hunchier skating, much smarter John Moore. A real top 4 defenseman. I think he will be able to handle a work load. A lot of minutes. And could age well because he isn't overly physical.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

http://blueshirtsunited.com/posts/6431/live-chat-replay#.U78dT4X7F_k

Thats from the Live Chat from this afternoon. Any idea who they could be targeting?

Hmm.

Not sure what trades could be made without creating other holes.

That didn't really rule out free agency though.

Still hope Setoguchi can be signed for a low price.