Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

Ondrej Palat is miles... MILES better than JT Miller. 59 points as a rookie. I'll be shocked if JT Miller EVER records 59 points in a season in the NHL.

Ever.

Here are some things to debunk this narrative, though:

Palat's CF% was higher when he was without MSL, his Goals For % was also higher.

This Palat/MSL thing is a nice narrative I've been seeing when people put MSL with Miller. Fact is? Palat is just a damn good hockey player. Better than Miller.



Is Rotter the SNY guy? Because if so, that's the meanest thing anyone has ever said to me

And I too am glad I'm not the Rangers coach. I don't even know if I can ice skate. Talk about a disaster.

No your good

 

[Mac n Gs]

Would keep with the narrative since no Ranger drafted under Sather has eclipsed 60 points. Sad, but true.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

The more I read about Buchnevich, the more I think we may have a stud winger on our hands.

 

[Vitto79]

It does. Poor, Stu



It's not that I dislike Miller. I'm rooting very hard for him. I want him to succeed. I want him to be a good player. I want him to lift the cup as a New York Ranger.

I just, don't see him being that player for us. I want to be wrong so bad. It'll be delicious crow.

And since I don't necessarily see that from him, I try to defend my stance as to why rather than just saying "gah Miller sucks". Ya know?

Prove me wrong, JT. Please.

I see miller as a great 3rd line C. If given full time minutes at one position he's going to be solid

 

[Kakko]

I'll be shocked if Palat puts up 59 points again

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I also agree about Palat, lets see what he does without St Louis.

 

[Miz]

MSL is a vocal Vet that miller needs. I can definitely see MSL as the guy that lights a fire under Miller's ***** when he hits a slump. Also MSL is a super star and someone guys like Miller look up to so he's more likely to grasp Miller's attention more then stempniak.

The only thing factual about this statement is that MSL is a superstar. MSL can still be a role model to JT regardless of what lines they play on. He can still try to light a fire under is cheeks whether there on the same line on not. Viper said it and I agree, MSL is not a 3rd line player. Considering what we gave up for him he needs to be on a top 2 scoring line. The majority of the people on here are going to want to cut bait with MSL the moment he doesn't post a PPG. I'm fairly confident that he won't accomplish that with Miller and Hagelin as his line mates.

Whats wrong with Stemp and Hags? They're both 40+ pt players on the 3rd line. Whats wrong with making JT earn the right to play with a Nash or MSL? How do we know that Miller is more like to grasp the attention of MSL than Stempniak?

 

[TheTakedown]

i think we can all establish that no matter the top 9 lineups discussed here, the team will be very, very good... We've effectively replaced everything we lost sans Brian Boyle, which was replaced with a different type of player in Matt Lombardi...

Stempniak = Pouliot
Glass = Dorsett (plus 2 picks )
D. Boyle = Stralman
Miller = Richards at Even Strength, and is at worst, the same defensively...

 

[Mac n Gs]

If anything, I think we became a more versatile team that will have a fast, strong forecheck due to an overall increase in speed.

Very interested to see how this pans out. I'm really hoping MSL and Boyle can have a strong impact on our younger guys and help teach them to grow their overall games.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

The only thing factual about this statement is that MSL is a superstar. MSL can still be a role model to JT regardless of what lines they play on. He can still try to light a fire under is cheeks whether there on the same line on not. Viper said it and I agree, MSL is not a 3rd line player. Considering what we gave up for him he needs to be on a top 2 scoring line. The majority of the people on here are going to want to cut bait with MSL the moment he doesn't post a PPG. I'm fairly confident that he won't accomplish that with Miller and Hagelin as his line mates.

Whats wrong with Stemp and Hags? They're both 40+ pt players on the 3rd line. Whats wrong with making JT earn the right to play with a Nash or MSL? How do we know that Miller is more like to grasp the attention of MSL than Stempniak?

Because hags and Stemp both only produce when their riding shotgun with super stars.

 

[Miz]

Because hags and Stemp both only produce when their riding shotgun with super stars.

Prove it, because Stempniak rode shotgun next to Crosby for...about 20 games? Hagelin had his best season as a rookie, where Torts played him on the 3rd and 4th lines exclusively. Hagelin then EARNED the right to play next to "studs" like a broken down Richards and a gimpy Gaborik.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Prove it, because Stempniak rode shotgun next to Crosby for...about 20 games? Hagelin had his best season as a rookie, where Torts played him on the 3rd and 4th lines exclusively. Hagelin then EARNED the right to play next to "studs" like a broken down Richards and a gimpy Gaborik.

Gimpy gaborik? Lolololol ok bud. I'm done talking to you, cleary your in over your head.

 

[Miz]

Gimpy gaborik? Lolololol ok bud. I'm done talking to you, cleary your in over your head.

Talking to me? You chose to ignore every point I made while trying to pawn your opinions off as facts. If the gimpy Gaborik comment is what you choose to take away from this discussion then clearly i'm not the one that's in over my head. "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL". Ok pal?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Hagelin and Stempniak are productive middle 6ers regardless of who they're playing with. Stempniak potted 14 goals in 18 games with the Coyotes. I don't need to point out that the Yotes don't even have a "super star" forward.

 

[TheTakedown]

Hagelin and Stempniak are productive middle 6ers regardless of who they're playing with. Stempniak potted 14 goals in 18 games with the Coyotes. I don't need to point out that the Yotes don't even have a "super star" forward.

this exactly. Either one will be playing with either Brassard or Miller at some point in the season, and that's nearly guaranteed.

 

[Ail]

Hagelin has made just about every line he has played on better since joining the team.

 

[silverfish]

I'll be shocked if Palat puts up 59 points again

I also agree about Palat, lets see what he does without St Louis.

Curious as to why you guys would think this, so please explain further if you can.

If you saw the graphs on the previous page, you could actually see that Tyler Johnson was more important to Palat than St. Louis.

Not to mention, Palat would record 21 points in the last 19 regular season games after MSL's trade to the Rangers. And three points in three playoff games.

Doesn't look like he slowed down too much, does it? I guess this isn't the biggest sample size in the world, but it's what we have.

Again, Palat is just a damn good player.

 

[Vitto79]

Hagelin has made just about every line he has played on better since joining the team.

If the top 6 stays productive and hagelin us on the 3rd line the teams in good shape. He's a very good player especially in a 3rd line role

I also think stempniak is a steal at the cost and replaces pouliott

Since glass never had the puck last yr does it really mean it's like that every yr he plays? Please tell me no

 

[AHB*]

Prove it, because Stempniak rode shotgun next to Crosby for...about 20 games? Hagelin had his best season as a rookie, where Torts played him on the 3rd and 4th lines exclusively. Hagelin then EARNED the right to play next to "studs" like a broken down Richards and a gimpy Gaborik.

Gimpy Gaborik? I wish all our players were Gimpy then, considering in his 3 years with the Rangers he potted 40+ goals twice.

 

[Miz]

Gimpy Gaborik? I wish all our players were Gimpy then, considering in his 3 years with the Rangers he potted 40+ goals twice.

In Gaboriks last season as a Ranger, he was coming off a Rotator cuff(?) injury. Couldn't pot one to save his life. One can only assume that the injury and a lack of confidence played a part. Torts had him shipped off by seasons end. This season happened to be Hagelins second season as a Ranger. The season where Torts actually played Hags up and down the lines, with our superstars. That was the only point I was trying to make. Wasn't making a reference to his entire career here on Broadway.

 

[GAGLine]

Ondrej Palat is miles... MILES better than JT Miller. 59 points as a rookie. I'll be shocked if JT Miller EVER records 59 points in a season in the NHL.

Palat is 2 years older than Miller. 2 years ago, Palat had 0 NHL games to his credit and was coming off his first season in the AHL where he scored 30 points in 61 games.

At the same age, Miller has 60 NHL games to his credit and is coming off his 2nd AHL season, where he scored 43 points in 41 games.

But you knew 2 years ago that Palat would be this good as a rookie, right? And you also know that Miller won't be as good 2 years from now. Amazing.

 

[Kovalev27]

Only guy I'm real concerned about losing is Boyle and that's playoff Boyle not regular season Brian Boyle

I think miller in the 3C spot will be great for us and an upgrade on Richards at even strength

 

[silverfish]

Palat is 2 years older than Miller. 2 years ago, Palat had 0 NHL games to his credit and was coming off his first season in the AHL where he scored 30 points in 61 games.

At the same age, Miller has 60 NHL games to his credit and is coming off his 2nd AHL season, where he scored 43 points in 41 games.

But you knew 2 years ago that Palat would be this good as a rookie, right? And you also know that Miller won't be as good 2 years from now. Amazing.

Sure hope I'm wrong and you're right

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

Palat is 2 years older than Miller. 2 years ago, Palat had 0 NHL games to his credit and was coming off his first season in the AHL where he scored 30 points in 61 games.

At the same age, Miller has 60 NHL games to his credit and is coming off his 2nd AHL season, where he scored 43 points in 41 games.

But you knew 2 years ago that Palat would be this good as a rookie, right? And you also know that Miller won't be as good 2 years from now. Amazing.

Wow. Boom!

Excellent post.

 

[silverfish]

Wow. Boom!

Excellent post.

I didn't want to get into another Miller thing here, but that post is far from "excellent"

First off, I was not comparing Miller to Palat directly. I was simply debunking the myth that MSL carried Palat, because he didn't. They both helped each other enormously. Palat continued on a more torrid scoring pace after MSL left. His corsi for and goals for percentage were also higher without MSL. Johnson and Palat were the dynamic duo in Tampa this past season. MSL certainly helped, but not nearly as much as everyone says.

Second, anyone can go on hockeydb and say Miller is this age, what was Palat doing then? That's all fine and dandy, and a good point. However, we've gotten some good looks at Miller at the NHL level. He does not look as polished as Palat has at any stage in his NHL game. Again, the age difference, I know people, I know.

Third, when I say I don't think Miller won't get to 59 points in a season in his career, I'm only using that number because we're talking about Palat. Hell, I don't think Miller will get to 50 in a season in his career. You know who else hasn't done that? Brassard. I have a hard time believing Miller is as offensively gifted as Brassard is.

And for the record, when Brassard was in his 20-21 years old season, he was over a point-per-game at the AHL level too, so don't feed me any of that ******** this time

FFS, Stepan has only broken 50 twice so far, yet it's outrageous for me to say Miller won't ever hit 59 after judging him on what we've seen so far? Potential is nice and everything, but that's all it is until it's realized.

And for the record, I certainly hope JT gets there. I just think he'll max out as a 40 point 3C BASED ON WHAT WE'VE SEEN AND HEARD FROM OUR OWN EYES AND THROUGH TWO COACHES IN JT'S YOUNG NHL CAREER WHICH HAS POTENTIAL TO GROW.

Everyone at this point knows where I stand on Miller. Do we really need to keep doing this?