Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part II
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Tawnos
A guy with a bass
LaffyTaffyNYR
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2012
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Well they really had 2 second lines and since zuccarello was the leading scorer calling his C brassard a 2nd line centre isn't crazy
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
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TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,694
- 1,493
That chart is convincing... It works if there following happens:
Stepan scores 65-70, an increase of 8-13 points
Brassard scores 55-60 points, an increase of 10-15 points
Miller scores 40 points, nearly equal to brassard last year
Moore scores 20-25 points, about the same as last year.
Include the fact that we have 2 additional Right handed shots, and I think the power play actually improves next year with Boyle and Stempniak on it.
At a minimum were looking at the same production as last year + a functioning Nash...
Stepan scores 65-70, an increase of 8-13 points
Brassard scores 55-60 points, an increase of 10-15 points
Miller scores 40 points, nearly equal to brassard last year
Moore scores 20-25 points, about the same as last year.
Include the fact that we have 2 additional Right handed shots, and I think the power play actually improves next year with Boyle and Stempniak on it.
At a minimum were looking at the same production as last year + a functioning Nash...
Bern, he could never become another Drury making 6.2 or whatever when the cap is 69-80m. Drurys portion of the cap equals to like 10-11m per today.
Pretty much this (the first paragraph) bu he's worth more than 4.5
That's the top 5 players above/below Brassard last year in points as per nhl.com removing guys on ELC or first time arbitration type awards and guys that definitely weren't centers like Cammalleri. I also included what the overall groups average % cap space they took up at the time they signed and showed what that would be in todays cap (5.1M). The CHEAPEST one of those contracts (Vermette: 6.31% of cap) would come out to 4.35M cap hit if signed now. Only Vermette and Jokinen would come in below 4.5M if signed now and Jokinen is the worst comparable on this list since he signed very short term deals at an older age.
Great stuff!
5-5.5m per seems perfectly reasonable. If we were to do the same next summer, the numbers will be closer to six. Then the summer after, 6.5m per and so forth.
The only potential hang-up should be deal restrictions.
Zil
Shrug
- Feb 9, 2006
- 5,559
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Brassard's going to put up 55-60 when he's never put up 50 before? Miller's going to put up 40 points this year when we don't even know if he's an NHLer yet? That's some extremely wishful thinking.
LaffyTaffyNYR
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2012
- 17,113
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Brassard may hit 50.. (finally).. Stepan will be around 60.. even if Miller scores 40 (which is going out on a HUGE limb), that's still less points from our centers than last season. though a full year of St Louis should help that a little, as well as hopefully a FULL season from Nash
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
I don't either. I was just making a point. The one thing that chart doesn't show is that Richards was getting about 2 minutes more of ES TOI/G than Brassard was. Brassard put up 27 ES points last season. Richards put up just 5 more. To me, Brassard is ready to step into that role. He won't get 2 more minutes per game, but I don't think 5 points in the 1 minute extra per game I think he'll get is too high of an expectation over a full year. Particularly if he's getting the kinds of offensive zone starts Richards was getting.
Great discussion here. If someone else (Boyle?) covers Richards' PP points and Brassard/Lombardi make up Richards' ES points they should be good. It will be interesting to see it play out.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,070
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He's worth that much if you look at only points, sure.Pretty much this (the first paragraph) bu he's worth more than 4.5
That's the top 5 players above/below Brassard last year in points as per nhl.com removing guys on ELC or first time arbitration type awards and guys that definitely weren't centers like Cammalleri. I also included what the overall groups average % cap space they took up at the time they signed and showed what that would be in todays cap (5.1M). The CHEAPEST one of those contracts (Vermette: 6.31% of cap) would come out to 4.35M cap hit if signed now. Only Vermette and Jokinen would come in below 4.5M if signed now and Jokinen is the worst comparable on this list since he signed very short term deals at an older age.
If we make the playoffs, which is maybe like 75% as long as Hank is healthy, why do all these fancy regular season point projections matter? I thought you guys were in cup or bust mode.
- Aug 5, 2010
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Wow. I'm not convinced any of that is going to happen, let alone all of it.
Because there are other, , more reasonable ways to replace / compensate for this production.
Stepan would need only 5 - 7 point increase. Given lack of last year's horrible early season circumstances, perfectly reasonable.
If we hypothesize that Nash replaces Poo, the a significant point production increase out of this LW spot is what will cover for the need to increase in Brassard's production and then some.
A whole season of already familiar with the team MSL instead of Cally and underwhelming quarter of MSL will definitely increase point production from this top 6 LW spot.
MCD continuing where he left off last season offensively, better production out of new PP QTB Boyle instead of Richards, both reasonable expectations. All of these enough to NOT expect more than 30 points specifically out of JT.
I didn't even mention continuing development of Kreider and what looks like a more offensive 4th line.
Zil
Shrug
- Feb 9, 2006
- 5,559
- 43
Because if the guys take steps forward during the regular season, it should carry over into the playoffs?
One Winged Angel
You Can't Escape
No, it's not. Gretzky is the best player ever. Joe Thornton is not even close.
Gretzky was a free agent. Joe Thornton is not.
Gretzky had dimensions to his game that Thornton couldn't dream of. Gretzky was a better skater even at their respective points of their careers.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
So we're now moving Nash and MSL to left wing?
You know that Boyle is going to make a nearly abysmal PP better? Where have I heard that before?
You can try to shape it any way you want, including a more offensive 4th line (not sure where that comes from), but either way, I'm saying that you are counting those chix prior to having any eggs, let alone letting them hatch.
Your inference is my suggestions were devoid of logic. Not so.
In this particular case both bernmeister and anti-bernmeister offerings are logic based. But because the opposition is less complete and therefore less accurate, mine prevail.
To prove these points:
You support my critics who say taking Stepan out is a no no, unless we get a better C back.
That is logical and correct IN A VACUUM. BUT it is 1 dimensional.
It is like saying water is wet. Water IS wet. BUT
depending on circumstances it may also be solid or vapor.
The parallel of that which applies to our banter is I have said if you got SO much of a windfall in return, since every team does not rise or fall exclusively on its Cs (or any single position) then the net benefit to the team as a whole may be worth the sacrifice of a given individual.
So a standpoint of quantity --- total gained versus total lost --- is something to consider.
But also is not quite chemistry, but let's say complementary matches, in the sense of trying to establish an ideal fit.
If we keep Stepan and at some point there is a continued push for even better Ws to play with him, why should we be close minded to that?
But by the same token, we are already invested in Kreider, who can go either way with speed/power and Hagelin + MSL, who are primo/elite speedsters.
Speed is not a strongpoint to Step's game
Please admit and concede the point.
Again, it is not to say Kreider/Hags - Step - MSL doesn't work.
Just that a speedier C works better.
If as we hope Hayes signs with us, that would be a chance for both a beast and a speed line. miller is not most ideal, but he is closest to ideal of what we have in terms of combo size/speed.
Continuing to press the envelope for guys like Ryan Johansson, Marcus Johansson, and Helm from Detroit are options to be considered based on cost.
A very likely scenario that depends on how the tv money gets incorporated. The nhlpa didn't include the tv dollars this year. If they did the cap would have gone to 71M instead of 69M. Had a lot to do with the escrow payments.
Next year it will very well likely be in the 73-75 range with increased revenues (year over year of 5% bumb) plus the tv deal.
The rangers would be wise to early extend Staal and Step to save money on the cap going up. Hagelin will command a nice deal next time. The rangers need to lock down their assists before the cap goes up and guys want more money.
There was no way Brassard would ask for 5m if the cap was at 64M. But there is a very good chance that Staal and Step ask for 6 if the cap looks like it will hit 75.
Zucc will need a new deal in January too.
SA16
Sixstring
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