Prospect Info: 2013 Sharks Draft Review/Info megathread

[Sharksfan83]

and also it seems that the blue jackets weren't picking Mueller anyway. They wanted Rychel. So was us moving up really worth it? The Red Wings?

 

[RainbowDash]

Another org., Columbus, came out with a behind the scenes look at their 2013 draft.

The Sharks were really trying to move up to grab someone, not entirely sure who though I'm guessing it was Zadorov, possibly Lazar. I guess it's entirely possible they were targeting Mueller earlier - though I don't think that's the case.

A couple of things you can see on the video that aren't overly surprising is that they had Shinkaruk ranked 27th and like many other teams had Sam Morin ranked pretty high.

Their draft boards are also interesting in the way they're set up.

If you want to watch the video:
http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=85098

Watching this video from about the 7:51 minute mark.
Person answers the phone from Doug Wilson
"Hello......Hey Doug, how you doing?........uh, yeah, probably. what you got in mind?...(8 seconds of silence)...Whats your second (2nd round pick?)?......Yeah, I don't think so, but I'll get back to you if we have interest.....ok, thanks doug"

Then says, "San Jose offered their 1st, 49th, and 3rd for our 14th. I said no."

Some idiot on the table said "They don't have a 3rd"

Doug calls back he says
"Uh, I still say no, but I'll think about it and get back to you, Doug." Hangs up

To the table
20 and two 2nds, get our 4th back (Yeah, I dunno what the hell. Maybe he meant 14th)

When we drafted Mirco Mueller, I am unsure if they were talking about our pick, but the guy was saying that "Its good. I like that. I like that a lot. I think hes got a Lazar type of character. Hes a tough kid. He can score."

 

[RainbowDash]

Depending on who we got of course, and who was on the board at 14.. Do you think you'd have been happy with giving up #20 and 2 2nd's?

If it was Zadorov or Lazar, who knows?

 

[sr228]

and also it seems that the blue jackets weren't picking Mueller anyway. They wanted Rychel. So was us moving up really worth it? The Red Wings?

Couple of things regarding these draft videos, first it's hours of meetings edited down to minutes and they all put the player(s) the org ended up drafting in the best possible light.

Second, I have very little doubt that Columbus liked Mueller as I'd heard one of CBJ's amateur scouts and their beat writer mention that Mueller was likely high on their draft board, however, even if they weren't all the Sharks can do is speculate which teams are interested in which prospects and go from there.

Gross said in the interview he did with TPS that they (the Sharks) believed that Detroit was interested in Mueller and that they felt they had to move up to take him. I've said it several times, if the Sharks target a player they believe to be the BPA I have zero problem with them doing whatever they feel they need to do to get that player.

 

[Sharksfan83]

Well don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the pick. I just thought it was interesting that it seemed that CBJ was intent on Rychel.

 

[do0glas]

Watching this video from about the 7:51 minute mark.
Person answers the phone from Doug Wilson
"Hello......Hey Doug, how you doing?........uh, yeah, probably. what you got in mind?...(8 seconds of silence)...Whats your second (2nd round pick?)?......Yeah, I don't think so, but I'll get back to you if we have interest.....ok, thanks doug"

Then says, "San Jose offered their 1st, 49th, and 3rd for our 14th. I said no."

Some idiot on the table said "They don't have a 3rd"

Doug calls back he says
"Uh, I still say no, but I'll think about it and get back to you, Doug." Hangs up

To the table
20 and two 2nds, get our 4th back (Yeah, I dunno what the hell. Maybe he meant 14th)

When we drafted Mirco Mueller, I am unsure if they were talking about our pick, but the guy was saying that "Its good. I like that. I like that a lot. I think hes got a Lazar type of character. Hes a tough kid. He can score."

didnt we give up a 3rd for torres?

sounds like a HF board trade. haha. yea...whats your second? 49th? see ya.

-just a tad more cordial

 

[sr228]

Watching this video from about the 7:51 minute mark.
Person answers the phone from Doug Wilson
"Hello......Hey Doug, how you doing?........uh, yeah, probably. what you got in mind?...(8 seconds of silence)...Whats your second (2nd round pick?)?......Yeah, I don't think so, but I'll get back to you if we have interest.....ok, thanks doug"

Then says, "San Jose offered their 1st, 49th, and 3rd for our 14th. I said no."

Some idiot on the table said "They don't have a 3rd"

Doug calls back he says
"Uh, I still say no, but I'll think about it and get back to you, Doug." Hangs up

To the table
20 and two 2nds, get our 4th back (Yeah, I dunno what the hell. Maybe he meant 14th)

When we drafted Mirco Mueller, I am unsure if they were talking about our pick, but the guy was saying that "Its good. I like that. I like that a lot. I think hes got a Lazar type of character. Hes a tough kid. He can score."

I think the 3rd from the Sharks in the first offer was a 'future' 3rd as they didn't own a 3rd round pick in 2013 and in the second offer the 4th was coming to the Sharks from Columbus.

The player they were talking about during the Sharks pick was Rychel.

 

[do0glas]

I think the 3rd from the Sharks in the first offer was a 'future' 3rd as they didn't own a 3rd round pick in 2013 and in the second offer the 4th was coming to the Sharks from Columbus.

The player they were talking about during the Sharks pick was Rychel.

i cant watch the video. lazar seems the most interesting of the people that we could have taken with the 14th.

im sure they had their top 10 guys or whatever, and i still doubt that mueller was ever number 1 on that list.

 

[SactoShark]

Couple of things regarding these draft videos, first it's hours of meetings edited down to minutes and they all put the player(s) the org ended up drafting in the best possible light.

Second, I have very little doubt that Columbus liked Mueller as I'd heard one of CBJ's amateur scouts and their beat writer mention that Mueller was likely high on their draft board, however, even if they weren't all the Sharks can do is speculate which teams are interested in which prospects and go from there.

Gross said in the interview he did with TPS that they (the Sharks) believed that Detroit was interested in Mueller and that they felt they had to move up to take him. I've said it several times, if the Sharks target a player they believe to be the BPA I have zero problem with them doing whatever they feel they need to do to get that player.

I have no proof at all, but that's what I thought the case was. Mueller would make absolutely perfect sense for Detroit. Mantha really doesn't, but that was their BPA.

It would also explain why the price was so high. Detroit wanted Mueller, but said they could do with Mantha if they got a 2nd. I wouldn't think Wilson would part with that 2nd if he wasn't certain Mueller was a goner.

 

[sr228]

i cant watch the video. lazar seems the most interesting of the people that we could have taken with the 14th.

im sure they had their top 10 guys or whatever, and i still doubt that mueller was ever number 1 on that list.

If you're referring to the Sharks they had 4 players they 'targeted' in the first round and I agree, I don't think Mueller was #1 on that list.

I re-watched the video with headphones and there are a lot of interesting things going on. One thing it shows pretty clearly is that there are GMs aside from DW that value quality over quantity.

 

[Sharksfan83]

It shows that they see Quality over quantity.. I thought our offer of #20 + 2 2nd's for their #14 and 4th round pick, this was a very very fair offer

 

[OrrNumber4]

If you're referring to the Sharks they had 4 players they 'targeted' in the first round and I agree, I don't think Mueller was #1 on that list.

I re-watched the video with headphones and there are a lot of interesting things going on. One thing it shows pretty clearly is that there are GMs aside from DW that value quality over quantity.

To clarify, the Sharks specifically targeted 4 players...I am sure they had a list twice as big of desirable players that they knew they had no chance of getting.

 

[whlscowt]

Does anyone know what value formula the Jackets were using for pick trading? Jarmo mentioned something about that after the first Sharks offer.

 

[drumzan]

Does anyone know what value formula the Jackets were using for pick trading? Jarmo mentioned something about that after the first Sharks offer.

I'm assuming he was using a draft value chart similar to what is used in NFL. i.e. Each pick has a point value. The closer the pick is to pick 1, the higher the point value. Very subjective though due to the talent level being so different each draft, but it's a good starting point to gauge if the trade is fair value.

 

[sr228]

Does anyone know what value formula the Jackets were using for pick trading? Jarmo mentioned something about that after the first Sharks offer.

Both JK and JD mentioned the 'value' of both the Sharks offer and the Buffalo offer. For what it's worth I've heard the Sharks have been using a similar tool for a while now.

There are a few articles out there that talk about the relative value of draft picks, a very general one was written by Scott Cullen and can be found here (I don't agree at all with his 'games played' benchmark!) http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/scott_cullen/?id=267960

I would guess that Columbus created their own 'value chart' and it's very unlikely anyone knows what type of formula they use.

 

[whlscowt]

I'm assuming he was using a draft value chart similar to what is used in NFL. i.e. Each pick has a point value. The closer the pick is to pick 1, the higher the point value. Very subjective though due to the talent level being so different each draft, but it's a good starting point to gauge if the trade is fair value.

That was my initial thought, I know people in fantasy sports who swear by that kind of thing and are always using CalculatorSoup's app for pick trading.

I would guess that Columbus created their own 'value chart' and it's very unlikely anyone knows what type of formula they use.

Good point. We'll never actually know unless they come and say it haha.

 

[do0glas]

so i know we offered 20, 49, 58 for 14 (excluding the periphery picks)

wennberg, pulock, zadorov, and lazar all went from that pick to 18. any guesses as to who we wouldve taken had we made that trade?

personally, not having seen anyone play. im glad that we ended up with mueller + paquin-boudreau.

 

[sr228]

so i know we offered 20, 49, 58 for 14 (excluding the periphery picks)

wennberg, pulock, zadorov, and lazar all went from that pick to 18. any guesses as to who we wouldve taken had we made that trade?

personally, not having seen anyone play. im glad that we ended up with mueller + paquin-boudreau.

I hope they would've taken Wennberg but my guess (and it's a total guess) is they wanted Zadorov (Pulock also a possibility) as I kind of get the feeling they were wanting a d-man with their first round pick.

That said Lazar is exact type of forward the Sharks generally love.

 

[do0glas]

I would hope they would've taken Wennberg but my guess (and it's a total guess) is they wanted Zadorov (Pulock also a possibility) as I kind of get the feeling they were wanting a d-man with their first round pick.

That said Lazar is exact type of forward the Sharks generally love.

can you tell me how the league that wennberg was playing in compares to other leagues?

i was thinking we wanted him too, we did try to move up to 16 as well, so Zadorov makes sense. havent heard anything about use trying to get 15, or 17 (doesnt mean it didnt happen though.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I finally got around to watching this, and it was utterly fascinating. Man, we really wanted to move up badly. Woulda been worth it for Wennberg, not for Zadorov. I wish more teams did this. Obviously the Sharks never would, what with their obsessive-compulsive secret-keeping.

 

[sr228]

can you tell me how the league that wennberg was playing in compares to other leagues?

i was thinking we wanted him too, we did try to move up to 16 as well, so Zadorov makes sense. havent heard anything about use trying to get 15, or 17 (doesnt mean it didnt happen though.

In my opinion it's a step up from the CHL but not at the level of the other pro leagues like the KHL, SM-liiga, etc.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I finally got around to watching this, and it was utterly fascinating. Man, we really wanted to move up badly. Woulda been worth it for Wennberg, not for Zadorov. I wish more teams did this. Obviously the Sharks never would, what with their obsessive-compulsive secret-keeping.

In fact, I would not be surprised if the Sharks were angry at the CBJ staff for posting something like this.

 

[sr228]

In fact, I would not be surprised if the Sharks were angry at the CBJ staff for posting something like this.

There was another draft video that was released that aired a Sharks trade offer, Buffalo I believe. I agree, I'm sure they didn't make DW happy at all.

 

[SactoShark]

"Doug, If you don't stop rephrasing my questions in totally different words, I'm hanging up."

 

[Juxtaposer]

In fact, I would not be surprised if the Sharks were angry at the CBJ staff for posting something like this.

I was honestly thinking the same thing.

Then again, you don't steal Joe Thornton by blasting your moves everywhere.