Proposal: 2013 Offseason: UFAs, Trades, and Potential Buyouts | Part II
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StefanW
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Having little offensive potential does not mean the exact same thing as shut down defenseman. A shut down D is used to neutralize top players. Methot does that, and Cowen did that in his first season. Phillips steps it up in the playoffs, but to say he was able to shut players down during the regular season would be an exaggeration. Gryba brings physical play, which is good, but he can get overmatched quite easily when facing a team with depth. So I used to term shut down D to mean a D who can actually shut down decent players. And yes, we do need another one of those.
StefanW
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Sensinitis
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At the same time though, having too many shutdown players, whatever your definition of them(let's include the defensive players with little offensive potential for argument's sake), diminishes the amount of offense coming from the backend.
Imagine having Cowen, Phillips, Methot, Gryba AND a pure shutdown D. That's 5 guys + Karlsson. If Gryba is moved and the shutdown D is a RHD that changes things a little bit, but we need offense from our defense. We had it when we made it in the finals and the two Cup finalists have it this season(Chara, Krug, Boychuk, Keith, Leddy, Seabrook ...)
StefanW
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Yes, you are absolutely right. My original point back further in the thread referred specifically to the 5/6 slot. I would prefer having a pure shutdown guy in the 5/6 pair and a more offensive player who can run the powerplay in the 3/4 slot on the right hand side. While Wiercioch has the offense to fill the #4 role, he is too much of a defensive liability to eat up that much ice time (probably in the 18 mins per night range).
I would even add to Michalek to get Buff. Having Byfuglien would be amazing for the team.
aragorn
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Latendresse was over weight & couldn't get up & down the ice, Buff had the exact same problems most of last yr including being winded easily. I would want some sort of guarantee from this guy that he would follow a strict regime of losing the weight & keeping it off. I would also want to make this deal now so their is time to get him into shape way before the season starts. Otherwise, we have a guy making good money who can't keep up to the pace of the NHL today & not contributing 100%. Also depends what they want in return for him, I would not give up any blue chip prospects.
The problem sometimes is that we think these guys will be as good for us as they once were, hopefully he isn't regressing. Having said that though he would fit in nicely behind Karlsson on the right side which brings up another point, would he be okay playing second fiddle to Karlsson? I would imagine he would want to have top PP minutes as opposed to fitting in behind Karlsson who usually doesn't come off the PP. I would want him but I'm not sure he would want us.
The problem sometimes is that we think these guys will be as good for us as they once were, hopefully he isn't regressing. Having said that though he would fit in nicely behind Karlsson on the right side which brings up another point, would he be okay playing second fiddle to Karlsson? I would imagine he would want to have top PP minutes as opposed to fitting in behind Karlsson who usually doesn't come off the PP. I would want him but I'm not sure he would want us.
Pavlikovsky
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Why not put him on Karlsson's left side on the PP he could get better angles on the 1 timers and put Wiercioch and (Blank) on the 2nd PP
Pavlikovsky
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Gotta make him stop drinking all that beer.
Look what happened to Andre G.
http://www.drunkard.com/issues/10_06/10_06_andre_giant.html
ReginKarlssonLehner
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StefanW
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Realistically, although it is a fun idea I can't see us getting Buff. The reason he plays D and refuses to go on the wing again is because he likes to get major minutes. The only way that will happen is if he is playing as Karlsson's partner. While Buff and Karlsson would be killer in the O zone, someone has to hang back and cover while one is making a rush. This is the exact reason why Methot is excellent as Karlsson's partner right now.
BonkTastic
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Hypothetically, IF we were going to acquire Buff, I don't think minutes would be an issue, seeing as how Byfuglien and Karlsson would pretty much never leave the ice during Powerplays, and Buff would still probably play 22-23mins/night due to Maclean's penchant for using the 2nd pair to act like a 1B pair.
And while we're on the hypothetical topic of "what if we made a pitch for Byfuglien", I'd have no problem including Wiercioch in that deal, seeing as how with Karlsson & Byfuglien hogging all the PP time, Wier would be redundant (unfortunate for him, seeing as how he's young & still developing). If we were ever make a Buff trade, I'd like to see Weir go ASAP, so that his value doesn't suffer due to him not ever being used here. Maximize value before it drops, "sell high", etc...
We should easily be able to give him 20+mins a nighr
The reason we won't get him is cause I don't think he is avaliable
StefanW
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Buff does not want 20 minutes per night, and is downright pouty when his numbers drop around the 18-20 mark. He likes to be in the 25-30 range.
Wiercioch + Smith + Stone? Probably too much quantity.
I guess it depends on how Buff is valued by Winnipeg.
He'd get 20+ mins easily. He plays in all situations. Just like Gonchar, the player he's replacing.
BonkTastic
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Personally, I'd be counting on Maclean to push him in the right direction, fitness-wise.
It's a gamble, though.
StefanW
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Buff is one of those players who you watch from a distance, maybe laugh when you hear of his weight shooting up, and wonder why he continues to get 25+ minutes a game when he is lazy and refuses to stay in a system.
But as soon as you hear that he may be available, your brain automatically turns to "what if" mode. What if we had him in our top 4? What if he was paired with Karlsson on our number 1 powerplay? What if we shifted him to the wing in a couple of playoff games to knock some heads? What if... What if... What if...?
He definitely was not on my radar as a player I'd like to see the team to go out and get. In fact, if we were dealing with the Jets Bogosian is a way better fit for our team in almost every way. But as soon as I saw the rumors start to fly that the Jets have seen enough of his act I clicked straight into that "What if" mode. There are very few players in the league who can make me do that.
But as soon as you hear that he may be available, your brain automatically turns to "what if" mode. What if we had him in our top 4? What if he was paired with Karlsson on our number 1 powerplay? What if we shifted him to the wing in a couple of playoff games to knock some heads? What if... What if... What if...?
He definitely was not on my radar as a player I'd like to see the team to go out and get. In fact, if we were dealing with the Jets Bogosian is a way better fit for our team in almost every way. But as soon as I saw the rumors start to fly that the Jets have seen enough of his act I clicked straight into that "What if" mode. There are very few players in the league who can make me do that.
HavlatMach9
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