Proposal: 2013 Offseason: UFAs, Trades, and Potential Buyouts | Part II

[McManked]

And why is that?

LOL, why is that?

Because they can have Hossa for one more year? They aren't amnestiying Hossa based on his performance, they're doing it because of cap issues and his long term contract. Due to the fact that they can amnesty someone next year as well, they will wait as long as they possibly can before buying out Hossa's contract.

 

[John Holmes*]

Oh I see.

I read that they are leaning towards buying him out if they win the cup this year, but you two think they will buy him out next year instead for no reason other than they can.

Ok.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Oh I see.

I read that they are leaning towards buying him out if they win the cup this year, but you two think they will buy him out next year instead for no reason other than they can.

Ok.

The point of buying out Hossa is to not have his contract around when he's 40+ and can't play. Well, he can still play right now and next year.

 

[HavlatMach9]

, but you two think they will buy him out next year instead for no reason other than they can.

They aren't amnestiying Hossa based on his performance, they're doing it because of cap issues and his long term contract.

Of course there's a reason Holmes. If the cap rules are set up the way they are, buying out Hossa should be considered or they could be in cap hell if he retires just before his contract ends.

By cap hell, I mean the Blackhawks will take a cap hit of 10-20m for a non-player. I'm not sure whether the recapture aspect of contracts were clarified but it seems absurd to me.

 

[McManked]

Oh I see.

I read that they are leaning towards buying him out if they win the cup this year, but you two think they will buy him out next year instead for no reason other than they can.

Ok.

Like MAK said.

I say there's a 90% Hossa gets bought out next season. BUT the only reason he's getting bought out is nothing to do with his performance OR his cap hit, just the length on the deal.

Due to the fact that they can wait one more year to do it, they'll try and hold on to Hossa as long as they possibly can. Still, I 100% agree with you that I'm truly hoping that they will try their best to sign him next year if he does reach free agency.

A player like Marian Hossa is the difference between the Senators being a middle of the pack team and a cup contender. And for the first time in a million years (well since Briere/Campbell) the Senators actually have a secondary "benefit" to attract top level players here (the first always being money), which is that MAYBE just MAYBE Hossa wants to come back here. Or at least is comfortable with coming back here if the money is there.

 

[StefanW]

I'd love to see Hossa back, but I will reserve judgment until this time next year. While I doubt this will happen to Hossa at this point in his career, older players can drop off pretty quickly.

The extent of is injury is another factor for the timing of the buyout. The Hawks are extremely unlikely to use a buyout and move him out this year unless they are looking to make room for the next generation of talent for another cup drive in 4-5 years (they did this last time they won the cup). But even if they win the cup and decide it is time to start reloading, if Hossa is injured during the buyout window the Hawks cannot do it.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Olesz gets bough out and the 'Hawks have 4.1 million to sign Leddy and a backup. They'll have 8 defensemen signed though and can move one to create room for the backup.

Hossa gets bought out next season.

 

[McManked]

I'd love to see Hossa back, but I will reserve judgment until this time next year. While I doubt this will happen to Hossa at this point in his career, older players can drop off pretty quickly.

The extent of is injury is another factor for the timing of the buyout. The Hawks are extremely unlikely to use a buyout and move him out this year unless they are looking to make room for the next generation of talent for another cup drive in 4-5 years (they did this last time they won the cup). But even if they win the cup and decide it is time to start reloading, if Hossa is injured during the buyout window the Hawks cannot do it.

The extent of the injury? You do realize Hossa played in Game 4, almost 20:00 of ice time, right?

I don't get your argument about "looking to make room for the next generation of talent". Why can't that generation come through with Hossa there as well? He can.

The only, and I repeat ONLY reason the Hawks would buyout Hossa was for immediate spending relief this year in order to re-sign guys like Bickell, Stalberg. My guess, however, is the Chicago brass would rather keep Hossa and let Bickell and Stalberg test free agency.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Can't they use both their buyouts this offseason? If so, Montador is gone and they can make a play for Sttalberg without losing Hossa too.

 

[McManked]

Olesz gets bough out and the 'Hawks have 4.1 million to sign Leddy and a backup. They'll have 8 defensemen signed though and can move one to create room for the backup.

Hossa gets bought out next season.

This.

Leddy will probably cost somewhere around $2 000 000 (my guess) unless they pay more for a long term deal that eats into free agency years.

They'll re-sign Emery for around a million.

They'll head in to the 2013/14 season a much different team. Still will have that core, but they will be lacking the depth to be a repeat contender IMO. They don't exactly have the best prospect pool in the league.

Murray keeps talking about benefiting from teams with cap issues, and I think the Hawks are the best team for that. Hjarlmarsson is the one that comes to mind. He's only got one year left on his deal @3.5 million, and if there's any team that might do a quantity for quality trade in this league, it's probably the Hawks (or Penguins).

 

[McManked]

Can't they use both their buyouts this offseason? If so, Montador is gone and they can make a play for Sttalberg without losing Hossa too.

But then they wouldn't be able to buy out Hossa next year.

 

[StefanW]

The extent of the injury? You do realize Hossa played in Game 4, almost 20:00 of ice time, right?

I don't get your argument about "looking to make room for the next generation of talent". Why can't that generation come through with Hossa there as well? He can.

The only, and I repeat ONLY reason the Hawks would buyout Hossa was for immediate spending relief this year in order to re-sign guys like Bickell, Stalberg. My guess, however, is the Chicago brass would rather keep Hossa and let Bickell and Stalberg test free agency.

I don't disagree with you from my point of view on how a team should be run. I am simply pointing out how the Hawks have done things in the past. The last time they won the cup they shipped Ladd, Buff, etc out of town and focused on re-loading for another run years down the road. Seeing as they are back in the cup final this year I assume they know what they are doing better than I do.

My point about Hossa and how he fits into how the Hawks do things is that Hossa will not be around beyond next season. If they win the cup this year they may decide to focus on the next run a few years down the road. If they don't win they may go for it again next year and leave the lineup alone. I am basing this on how they have done things in the past, and I have no insider knowledge about the Hawks and their plans going forward. I'm just pointing out that the past can give clues to the future when the same management team is running the show.

 

[McManked]

I don't disagree with you from my point of view on how a team should be run. I am simply pointing out how the Hawks have done things in the past. The last time they won the cup they shipped Ladd, Buff, etc out of town and focused on re-loading for another run years down the road. Seeing as they are back in the cup final this year I assume they know what they are doing better than I do.

My point about Hossa and how he fits into how the Hawks do things is that Hossa will not be around beyond next season. If they win the cup this year they may decide to focus on the next run a few years down the road. If they don't win they may go for it again next year and leave the lineup alone. I am basing this on how they have done things in the past, and I have no insider knowledge about the Hawks and their plans going forward. I'm just pointing out that the past can give clues to the future when the same management team is running the show.

The only difference there is that they shipped them out because they absolutely had to, and even though they didn't get much value, they did get **some**. There was absolutely no way the Hawks could stay under the cap with Byfuglien and Ladd. It's still possible to stay under the cap with Hossa.

 

[StefanW]

The only difference there is that they shipped them out because they absolutely had to, and even though they didn't get much value, they did get **some**. There was absolutely no way the Hawks could stay under the cap with Byfuglien and Ladd. It's still possible to stay under the cap with Hossa.

Yes, that is a very important difference. A second important difference is that they will be moving out Hossa either this year or next due to his contract. So yes they can keep him, but yes they may decide to just move on now rather than later. Either would make sense to me.

 

[HSF]

we dont need more older players..i am already iffy on Briere


while it would be cool to see Hossa in a sens jersey again i dont think it is the direction the team should go

 

[Tkachuk27]

Yeah u feel like sens see a lot of talent in our prospect and truly are starting to believe after the Nash deal and what not that building through prospects is the best way to go.

That's the feel this team is giving off.

agreed

 

[WhiteLight*]

we dont need more older players..i am already iffy on Briere


while it would be cool to see Hossa in a sens jersey again i dont think it is the direction the team should go

Everyone around here seems to think that I will freak out when I hit 30 because prefer younger players and am always trying to trade older players

I won't deny any of that



But... I would love to sign Hossa if he gets bought out. I would likely jump in joy. I think it would be a great direction to take.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Yes, that is a very important difference. A second important difference is that they will be moving out Hossa either this year or next due to his contract. So yes they can keep him, but yes they may decide to just move on now rather than later. Either would make sense to me.

They can keep him, but it is quite possible Bowman believes now is the time to move on from Hossa, retaining his young assets and creating increased opportunities in the organization.

While GMs obviously want to win every year, based on history the odds of the Hawks getting back to the finals next year are not in their favour, given only 4 teams have had successive SCF appearances since 1990 I believe.

 

[Tkachuk27]

No way does Alfie come back and Murray not make a big move. He will make one regardless, imo.

If Alfie comesback or not Murray isnt making a "big move"

Everything Ive read or heard from Murray its the same old story. If we do pick up a player it will be kovy gonchar type so probably a player like Briere to help with the development with the young guys

I also wouldnt be surprised if Alfie is waiting to see what Murray does if he doesnt improve the team I think he retires ..Alfies frustration lately has been on a different level ..Freak out vs Rangers and conceding vs Pittsburgh

 

[HSF]

If Alfie comesback or not Murray isnt making a "big move"

Everything Ive read or heard from Murray its the same old story. If we do pick up a player it will be kovy gonchar type so probably a player like Briere to help with the development with the young guys

I also wouldnt be surprised if Alfie is waiting to see what Murray does if he doesnt improve the team I think he retires ..Alfies frustration lately has been on a different level ..Freak out vs Rangers and conceding vs Pittsburgh

i consider getting a top 6 forward a 'big move' if you are expecting a star then ya dont get your hopes up but stars are RARELY moved...maybe one team each summer actually gets one

 

[Holdurbreathe]

we dont need more older players..i am already iffy on Briere


while it would be cool to see Hossa in a sens jersey again i dont think it is the direction the team should go

I agree with both of your comments.

In the case of Briere, I tend to agree with many of the points Brennan (Sun) made in his recent article. The Sens currently have too many smaller players, adding Briere only adds to the problem, forcing Murray into a potentially difficult trade senario.

Hossa would be a nice add for LW on Spezza's wing for sure, but price and term would be all important.

 

[Pavlikovsky]

I agree with both of your comments.

In the case of Briere, I tend to agree with many of the points Brennan (Sun) made in his recent article. The Sens currently have too many smaller players, adding Briere only adds to the problem, forcing Murray into a potentially difficult trade senario.

Hossa would be a nice add for LW on Spezza's wing for sure, but price and term would be all important.

Our small forwards are Pageau 5'9, Conacher 5'8, Hoffman 5'11, Alfredsson 5'11 everybody else is 6'0 and above and the players mentioned play bigger than they are.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Our small forwards are Pageau 5'9, Conacher 5'8, Hoffman 5'11, Alfredsson 5'11 everybody else is 6'0 and above and the players mentioned play bigger than they are.

The height isn't the concern, its the body mass and strength that is of concern.

Conacher (179), Condra (189), Turris (193), Pageau (163), and potentially Hoffman (176).

I have seen most of these guys in street clothes and I would be willing to bet several don't come close to these weights, starting with Turris.

Adding Briere 179 to this group really doesn't make sense unless the plan is to be a copy of the Canadiens.

I am not against smaller talented players, however having the equivalent of 2 lines filled with players under 190 lbs is not the key to success in today's NHL. This is especially so when many of then will be employed in 3rd or 4th line roles.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Our small forwards are Pageau 5'9, Conacher 5'8, Hoffman 5'11, Alfredsson 5'11 everybody else is 6'0 and above and the players mentioned play bigger than they are.

Players like Spezza and Michalek's size can be deceiving. Both play a lot smaller then they are for whatever reason, adding a top line player with size would be huge. Most of the toughness comes from the bottom 6.

 

[Sensinitis]

Turris still has to beef up this summer! I hope he doesn't slack off