2013 NHL-NHLPA CBA

[Hawkscap]

Yes & no. The full value of the Performance Bonuses would have been included in Timmo's cap hit - and that cap hit would have accrued to the Hawks, prorated daily after the trade. The Flyers and the Hawks would have been allowed to exceed the Upper Limit under the 7.5% Performance Bonus Cushion (The Flyers also had him on LTIR I beleive) - however it would be the Hawks who would pay all the Performance Bonus $$$'s and I believe the bonuses if hit would fully be accounted against the Hawks' Performance Bonus Cushion bookkeeping to see if there is any carry over to next season.

Kane's LTIR should cover Timmos bonus.

 

[mouser]

Kane's LTIR should cover Timmos bonus.

I'm not 100% confident it works that way.

The CBA doesn't seem to include a full description of the interactions between LTIR and a Performance Bonus Overage. A strict reading of 50.5(h)(iii) would imply that performance bonuses carry over in the case where LTIR causes a team to end the season with an actual Averaged Club Salary above the Upper Limit.

That was Capgeek's position on the interaction, though it doesn't cite any league sources confirming it.

http://capgeek.org/nhl-salary-cap-faq-how-can-long-term-injured-reserve-cause-a-bonus-overage/

 

[Hawkscap]

I'm not 100% confident it works that way.

The CBA doesn't seem to include a full description of the interactions between LTIR and a Performance Bonus Overage. A strict reading of 50.5(h)(iii) would imply that performance bonuses carry over in the case where LTIR causes a team to end the season with an actual Averaged Club Salary above the Upper Limit.

That was Capgeek's position on the interaction, though it doesn't cite any league sources confirming it.

http://capgeek.org/nhl-salary-cap-faq-how-can-long-term-injured-reserve-cause-a-bonus-overage/

I am basing this on page 290 of the CBA


(iv) The replacement Player Salary and Bonuses for any Player(s) that
replace(s) an unfit-to-play Player may be added to the Club's Averaged
Club Salary until such time as the Club's Averaged Club Salary reaches
the Upper Limit. A Club may then exceed the Upper Limit due to the
addition of replacement Player Salary and Bonuses of Players who have
replaced an unfit-to-play Player, provided, however, that when the unfitto-
play Player is once again fit to play (including any period such Player is
on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan to
another league), the Club shall be required to once again reduce its
Averaged Club Salary to a level at or below the Upper Limit prior to the
Player being able to rejoin the Club.

 

[mouser]

Yeah, I'm familiar with that section. There's a potential conflict between that and 50.5(h)(iii) is what I was pointing out.


One additional wrinkle to keep in mind--Timmonen is hitting at least some of those performance bonuses after Kane came off LTIR.

That's assuming the Kimmo's games played bonus is written as Games Player, rather then Regular Season Games Played.

 

[Hawkscap]

50.2 C 1 says League year which is the defined as July 1 through June 30.

Chris Johnston ✔@reporterchris
Kimmo Timonen has a bonus-laden contract that sees him receive $750,000 after playing 10 games and $250,000 after 20 games. #blackhawks

The question is where the last $500k is

 

[Teemu]

Sounds like the GP requirement was regular season only, so the penalty would be 750k for 10 GP

 

[peaston777]

Is there anywhere in here where it says that a two players cannot be traded back for each other until a certain date? For example, if the leafs dealt lupul to Buffalo for hodgson, is there a set time that, If the teams wanted to swap that trade back again, has to pass before doing so? I looked long and hard at the cba and couldn't find it

 

[LadyStanley]

AFAIK, the only restrictions are on arbitration/waived players (notwithstanding trade freezes).

 

[kdb209]

Is there anywhere in here where it says that a two players cannot be traded back for each other until a certain date? For example, if the leafs dealt lupul to Buffalo for hodgson, is there a set time that, If the teams wanted to swap that trade back again, has to pass before doing so? I looked long and hard at the cba and couldn't find it

There is no restriction on re-acquiring a player via trades. The only restriction in the CBA is w.r.t. Compliance Buy-Outs - a team could not reacquire the bought out player for the remainder of that League Year.

Under the old, old (1994) CBA there were restrictions on requiring a player if he was traded prior to the (no longer existing) Waiver Draft - aka the Dean McAmmond rule.

13.36. A player traded by a Club within the four weeks prior to the Waiver Draft may not be
reacquired by such Club within the forthcoming season.

 

[mouser]

There's also a restriction that any player traded with salary retention cannot be reacquired by the original team for one calendar year.

 

[kdb209]

There's also a restriction that any player traded with salary retention cannot be reacquired by the original team for one calendar year.

Missed that one.

Also a team cannot reacquire a player in a trade with salary retention if that player was on the teams Reserve List within the past calendar year.

(C) Under no circumstances may a Club:

...

(3) Reacquire within one (1) calendar year from the date of that
Retained Salary Transaction an SPC the Averaged Amount
and Player Salary and Bonuses of which that Club agreed
to retain as part of a Retained Salary Transaction;

Illustration: If Club A Trades a Player to Club B and
retains 30% of the Averaged Amount of such Player's SPC
in a Retained Salary Transaction, Club A cannot reacquire
such Player's SPC within one (1) calendar year from the
date of the Trade. However, if such Player's Retained
Salary SPC expires or is otherwise terminated prior to one
(1) calendar year from the date of the Trade such that it no
longer exists, Club A may reacquire the Player since the
Retained Salary SPC no longer exists.
or

(4) Reacquire as part of a Retained Salary Transaction the SPC
of a Player who was on that Club's Reserve List within the
past calendar year;

Illustration: If Club A Trades the SPC of a Player to Club
B (the "Initial Trade"), Club B cannot subsequently Trade
an SPC of such Player back to Club A within one (1)
calendar year from the date of the Initial Trade and retain a
portion of the Averaged Amount of that SPC pursuant to a
Retained Salary Transaction. However, Club B may Trade
an SPC of the Player back to Club A within one (1)
calendar year from the date of the Initial Trade if Club B
does not retain any portion of such Player's SPC.

 

[Teemu]

kane's ltir should cover timmos bonus.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl-s-enhanced-stats-on-the-table-at-arbitration-hearings-1.330873

Teams and agents/players can now use "enhanced"/advanced stats in arbitration hearings.

 

[UncMike]

I have a question about the agreement between the NHL and CHL.
I know if a player is drafted from the CHL, they can't play in the AHL until they are 20......what about if they go undrafted and sign a ELC after a tryout?
are they still bound by the age limitations?

 

[LadyStanley]

Yes.

 

[ellja3]

I have a question as well; don't want to open a new thread.

A player cannot receive more than 20% of salary cap, am I right? So, what happens, say, if the season after player is signed the cap actually drops, putting his previously legit contract over 20% of cap?

 

[mouser]

I have a question as well; don't want to open a new thread.

A player cannot receive more than 20% of salary cap, am I right? So, what happens, say, if the season after player is signed the cap actually drops, putting his previously legit contract over 20% of cap?

The 20% limit is based on the league year in which the contract is signed. If the cap were to drop in the future the player's salary would remain the same even if that meant he was getting more then 20%.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

I have a question about retained salary trades. Is there a period of time where a player can't be traded when involved in a retained salary trade?

EXAMPLE:

It's the day of the trade deadline.

Maple Leafs have tons of cap room.

Coyotes wants to trade a big salary player, but they do not want to retain salary for obvious reasons.

Blackhawks want that player, but they need the salary to be retained to fit it into their cap.

Is there anything stopping the following from happening beyond the 'can't retain salary on a contract 3 times' rules?

Coyotes trade the player to the Maple Leafs for a 3rd rounder.

Maple Leafs then retain 50% of that player's salary and move him to the Blackhawks for a 2nd and a 3rd rounder

Maple Leafs then trade the 2nd from CHI to the Coyotes for Toronto's 3rd. Leafs keep the CHI 3rd.

Everyone wins, in theory. Coyotes get a 2nd. Leafs get a 3rd. Blackhawks get the player 50% discounted. Player traded twice (this would not be a 3-way trade...)

Would the NHL approve of this deal?

 

[mouser]

A series of trades like that would be okay under the CBA. There are some other minor limitations besides the 3 player retained salary limit, such as a team can't reacquire a player under a retained salary trade that was on their reserve list within the prior 12 months.

 

[Episkey]

Quick question regarding waiver exemption.

Does the number of exempt years carry over until a player plays a professional game (NHL/AHL/Europe)? Take Sam Morin for example. He signed his ELC at 18, giving him five years of waiver exemption. He hasn't played any professional games in his career, but is likely going to the AHL this season. So does he still have five years of exemption, or have two already gone by, leaving him with three more years?

 

[mouser]

Quick question regarding waiver exemption.

Does the number of exempt years carry over until a player plays a professional game (NHL/AHL/Europe)? Take Sam Morin for example. He signed his ELC at 18, giving him five years of waiver exemption. He hasn't played any professional games in his career, but is likely going to the AHL this season. So does he still have five years of exemption, or have two already gone by, leaving him with three more years?

Two have gone by. Waivers can't "slide" the same way that ELC contract years can.

 

[Hawkscap]

Hawks cap with max LTIR $74,939,712 (calculated when they called up Pokka and put Roszival on LTIR)
They signed Cumiskey today @ $575k and then waived him.
According to my numbers which were corroborated by Hockeyscap , we have the Hawks over.
What am I doing wrong?

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Why would that mean anything? You can bury all of $575k.

 

[Hawkscap]

Why would that mean anything? You can bury all of $575k.

He was not buried until he was assigned today. He was on the roster for one day which counts towards the cap. That one day on being on the active roster put the Hawks over the cap according to my numbers and Hockeyscap.

 

[mouser]

Don't see any obvious way, assuming the Hawks don't actually have the available cap space.

Perhaps there are some special side rules on signing players and immediately assigning them. Or the fact that Cumiskey was on a PTO with the AHL club at the time of the signing.