For the 2nd time, I never said I would. If I were to make a trade like that it would be because the chances MacKinnon becomes elite are a lot greater, IMO, than someone like Mantha being a first line player. By the time those guys are in those positions, guys like Gaborik may not even still be on the team.
2013 NHL Draft Thread III (6/30, 3PM EDT)
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For the 2nd time, I never said I would. If I were to make a trade like that it would be because the chances MacKinnon becomes elite are a lot greater, IMO, than someone like Mantha being a first line player. By the time those guys are in those positions, guys like Gaborik may not even still be on the team.
I understand, and I'm glad you wouldn't. But this thread has multiple suggestions of trades such as that. And I'm basing my position off of what I would assume the asking price of a top 2 pick to be. I'd rather have 2 stud defenseman in Murray and Pulock and a potential 30 goal scorer in Mantha than a single 70-85 point player in Mackinnon. That's just my opinion though.
Xoggz22
Registered User
Man, I can't wait to see what happens for this draft.... I wouldn't be surprised to see Colorado mess it all up and take McKinnon. 
I still think Columbus looks to get into the top 7 to get one of the elite, if not really high end, forwards in this draft. (McKinnon, Barkov, Nichushkin, Drouin, Lindholm, Monahan - Jones being the other pick in top 7). I'm still probably one of the few that thinks we can get up into the 4-6 position without giving up Murray OR Johansen. If this draft is as valued by the GM's as it is by the fans, 3 first round picks are amazing assets to have.
I think Carolina at #5 would be a good spot to be, especially if Nichushkin gets into the top 3. I think Drouin could be the guy that falls this draft....
I still think Columbus looks to get into the top 7 to get one of the elite, if not really high end, forwards in this draft. (McKinnon, Barkov, Nichushkin, Drouin, Lindholm, Monahan - Jones being the other pick in top 7). I'm still probably one of the few that thinks we can get up into the 4-6 position without giving up Murray OR Johansen. If this draft is as valued by the GM's as it is by the fans, 3 first round picks are amazing assets to have.
I think Carolina at #5 would be a good spot to be, especially if Nichushkin gets into the top 3. I think Drouin could be the guy that falls this draft....
Lots of interesting arguments back and forth in this thread. They show that JK has lots of potential options available to him and could help us be making our decision making process more obscure to the rest of the league.
Yes, as was Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc. MacKinnon is going likely going to be a great player in this league.
The reason I wouldn't trade Jenner is because of how he is developing as an overall player with excellent leadership skills. I think we are also underestimating him on the offensive side of the ice. I think we the additions required in addition to get MacKinnon with Jenner as the main prospect would end up being overpayment.
When I look at this team, Jenner is a guy I want with this group moving forward. We concentrate a lot on the offensive side of ice and dream about that elite group of guys. There are many elite players in this league that weren't drafted in the top 5. I want smart resource management. I don't think we have to trade Jenner to get that guy.
I don't expect you to agree, but my reasoning certainly isn't as simplistic as you made it out to be and I still glossed over my reasoning as I don't want to further this debate here as this is not a Jenner thread. I only mentioned it as I don't want Jenner included in a move up trade in the draft. It would also take a special trade at the NHL for me to want to move him as well.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Just to add a different take:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1440559
This is a speculation thread from the trade board titled "How the Top 10 Teams in the Draft Feel About Moving Up or Down".
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1440559
This is a speculation thread from the trade board titled "How the Top 10 Teams in the Draft Feel About Moving Up or Down".
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
today CBJProspects previews Mantha...good vids he found including the really sick Vine video Mantha himself posted last week...
https://twitter.com/CBJProspects
https://twitter.com/CBJProspects
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Speaking of prospect videos, here's a tribute from potential top-10 pick Hunter Shinkaruk, directed towards one of his favorite players, TJ Oshie:
I'm guessing it's about 5-6 years old?
I'm guessing it's about 5-6 years old?
Aaron Vickers
FCHockey
For those curious, we have Ryan Pulock 14th, Valentin Zykov 19th and a bottom four of Petan, Erne, Compher and Hurley. Our full list can be found here:
http://futureconsiderations.ca/fc-releases-2013-nhl-draft-guide/
If you're looking to dig on some of the lesser-known names, our Prospect Profiler can probably help with that too. It features over 100 draft eligibles and gives a little snapshot on each: http://futureconsiderations.ca/playerprofiler/?yearsearch=2013
For those that are hardcore, we have our 2013 NHL Draft Guide. For 20 bones, you get profiles on 210 players (coincidentally, all the ones we have ranked in the top-210), as well a pile of other features. It comes as a two-part PDF, one optimized for tablets and iphones and another as a text-only version for those hoping to print. If it sounds like it would be up your alley, I recommend giving it a go!
http://futureconsiderations.ca/fc-releases-2013-nhl-draft-guide/
If you're looking to dig on some of the lesser-known names, our Prospect Profiler can probably help with that too. It features over 100 draft eligibles and gives a little snapshot on each: http://futureconsiderations.ca/playerprofiler/?yearsearch=2013
For those that are hardcore, we have our 2013 NHL Draft Guide. For 20 bones, you get profiles on 210 players (coincidentally, all the ones we have ranked in the top-210), as well a pile of other features. It comes as a two-part PDF, one optimized for tablets and iphones and another as a text-only version for those hoping to print. If it sounds like it would be up your alley, I recommend giving it a go!
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Aaron Vickers
FCHockey
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
I find Petan in the first round as a bit interesting ... saw plenty of him all year long, would you care to elaborate on the process of how he wound up there?
Aaron Vickers
FCHockey
I personally am not involved in the decisions that go into the ranking, but (from our reports) we are big fans of his ability to handle the puck in high traffic areas and doesn't show a lot of panic to his game when the 'walls close in' on him. His willingness to attack and his speed and energy, in our scouts opinion, more than make up for what he lacks in size.
The scouting report we have in our 2013 NHL Draft Guide on him is a lot more elaborate (over 600 words), but you get the point.
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649
Craig Button's....interesting rankings
Some highlights are
#13-Samuel Morin
#30-Ryan Pulock
#37-Valetin Zykov
I'm not sure if he's serious or if he just wants some attention so he keeps a job...
Craig Button's....interesting rankings
Some highlights are
#13-Samuel Morin
#30-Ryan Pulock
#37-Valetin Zykov
I'm not sure if he's serious or if he just wants some attention so he keeps a job...
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Thanks for the response!
Typically, when we do our rankings, we compile everyone's insight and then we all sort of debate who should be moved up or down ... so we come to a pretty decent "unanimous" type of decision. Being one of the WHL guys, I would put Petan somewhere in the 40-50 range, so I found it interesting that you guys had him higher.
Nice work
Button's rankings are always all over the board with some guys ... in the end, he nails some right on the head, and he misses completely on others.
Of course Kane, and by a landslide. It was obvious then, and now. Jarmo tried to trade all 3 for the #1 overall.
In that draft Eller Cole and Perron is a good haul. In this draft I'd hope for at least one player better than Perron, although there is a fair chance we don't do any better.
Jarmo knows how to find diamonds in the rough in the draft. If we came away with a 1st round that went Pulock, Mantha, Burakowsky, that's a potential top pairing defenseman, 30 goal forward, and a speedster who could be a slick second line forward from what I understand about him. Could be even better if someone like Shinkaruk falls. The price to trade up to take Mackinnon would be astronomical.
A lineup of:
Mantha-Johansen-Gaborik
Calvert-Anisimov-Atkinson
Burakowsky-Jenner-Letestu
Boll-Dubinsky-Foligno
Johnson-Murray
Tyutin-Pulock
Prout-Erixon
Wisniewski
Looks like a deeper lineup than
Calvert-Mackinnon-Gaborik
Letestu-Johansen-Atkinson
Foligno-Anisimov-Jenner
Boll-Dubinsky-FA/someone I'm forgetting
Johnson-Tyutin
Prout-Erixon
Wisniewski-Savard
Sorry for the long post.
This is a funny post to me. You've done an extreme deal here that Mackinnonites haven't pushed (Mack for Murray + 3 1st's), and the less deep lineup is still stacked enough at forward to have Dubinsky on the 4th line! What a waste! Admittedly we would presumably have to resign Aucoin for the D, or something, but that is a minor expense to get a star forward.
1) Because there are diminishing returns to more and more depth, and we're already deep.
2) Mackinnon is what we might call an "anchor player", which in this sense is like an anchor tenant in a commercial district. It helps to pull in the complementary pieces. And deep rosters, unless they're loaded with RFA's, can dissipate when contracts end for a variety of reasons. Players want, among other things, to play, to play with players who make them better, and to win.
Now that's the stuff that dreams are made of! Stars in-the-making and depth.
Looks like you've traded Johansen and some picks. To be honest, after reading all this Jenner discussion, if we have to move players I wouldn't mind shipping him out. He'd be underutilized as a Jacket, and several teams would trade a decent fortune for him. That and I'd probably move a defenceman to elevate Erixon and/or Golo.
To try and be realistic here (and probably not succeed
), Johansen and a couple picks probably wouldn't be enough.I might:
Nikitin + Jenner for the 7th overall.
Johansen + 7th + 27th for the ability to draft Mackinnon.
This way we trade valuable but partially redundant pieces for the player we want and keep 3 firsts. Definitely costly.
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Like I said before, I'm basing these deals on a combination of what I've seen on these boards, and around the asking price of the trade boards. Which I find to be completely ridiculous. It would simply cost too much for my liking to draft Mackinnon.
As for your next post, about the lineup for next year if a trade like this were to occur... What makes you think that Mackinnon will be able to step in and be effective in his rookie season as a 1st line center in the NHL? That's tough. And quite the elite club if he could join it. I'm not quite that high on Mackinnon to put him on that level. But that's just my opinion.
Aaron Vickers
FCHockey
Thanks for the response!
Typically, when we do our rankings, we compile everyone's insight and then we all sort of debate who should be moved up or down ... so we come to a pretty decent "unanimous" type of decision. Being one of the WHL guys, I would put Petan somewhere in the 40-50 range, so I found it interesting that you guys had him higher.
Nice work
No problem!
1) Because there are diminishing returns to more and more depth, and we're already deep.
2) Mackinnon is what we might call an "anchor player", which in this sense is like an anchor tenant in a commercial district. It helps to pull in the complementary pieces. And deep rosters, unless they're loaded with RFA's, can dissipate when contracts end for a variety of reasons. Players want, among other things, to play, to play with players who make them better, and to win.
Now that's the stuff that dreams are made of! Stars in-the-making and depth.
Looks like you've traded Johansen and some picks. To be honest, after reading all this Jenner discussion, if we have to move players I wouldn't mind shipping him out. He'd be underutilized as a Jacket, and several teams would trade a decent fortune for him. That and I'd probably move a defenceman to elevate Erixon and/or Golo.
To try and be realistic here (and probably not succeed
I might:
Nikitin + Jenner for the 7th overall.
Johansen + 7th + 27th for the ability to draft Mackinnon.
This way we trade valuable but partially redundant pieces for the player we want and keep 3 firsts. Definitely costly.
There is no way I would trade Johansen and Jenner.
What makes you think Pulock will ever be a top pairing D or Mantha will ever be a 1st line LW? The odds are much greater that not only will MacKinnon reach his potential, but he will do it a lot faster than those 2.
Should we remain where we are in the draft order, my current favorites are Domi and Zykov. Not sure that Max will be there at #14, nor that Valetin will be around at #19, but I'd love to see them both in Union Blue in the not too distant future. If Domi were not available, would Zykov warrant selection at #14?
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
i have man crushes brewing for Mantha, Hartman, and Gauthier...if I can't get MacK...two of those three will work
My point was for next years team. And that's true about Mackinnon, but I'd rather not pay the price needed to move up to take him. I'd rather take the chance that Murray and our other picks develop as they should.
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