2013 NHL Draft Thread III (6/30, 3PM EDT)

[Sore Loser]

If he is a first-line center (which is not just his upside but a likelihood) then we're talking about a player that wingers are going to want to play around. Think of what Tavares has done for the Islanders. The Isles would have to pay so much more than the market rate for top wingers if they didn't have Tavares. The Jackets don't need that kind of help as much as the Isles do, but it's still a big help to have that kind of cornerstone.

To be fair, the wingers that the Islanders have, were acquired with nothing to do with the presence of John Tavares. PA Parenteau in fact left for more money. But, their top scoring wings this year were Matt Moulson (44 points) Brad Boyes (35), Kyle Okposo (25), and Michael Grabner (21) ... in the case of Moulson, he was a "never has been" that hit the big time while playing for the Islanders. Maybe a late bloomer of sorts ... but, he never had a good offensive year in the NHL until he played for them, so I wouldn't really count him as a discounted free agent. Brad Boyes scored 23 points in the NHL in his last season before joining the Islanders ... and hadn't really done anything in almost three years. I'll argue that they got lucky with him, as he looked to be done. Okposo was their own draft pick, and Grabner was picked up via waivers.

What Tavares has done for the Islanders, however, is provide them with an elite offensive talent (yes, elite) that has made all of these wingers better players. So, you add a guy like Tavares to the lineup of the Blue Jackets, and maybe 2-3 of our wingers become more valuable players also.

 

[Cash for Nash]

To be fair, the wingers that the Islanders have, were acquired with nothing to do with the presence of John Tavares. PA Parenteau in fact left for more money. But, their top scoring wings this year were Matt Moulson (44 points) Brad Boyes (35), Kyle Okposo (25), and Michael Grabner (21) ... in the case of Moulson, he was a "never has been" that hit the big time while playing for the Islanders. Maybe a late bloomer of sorts ... but, he never had a good offensive year in the NHL until he played for them, so I wouldn't really count him as a discounted free agent. Brad Boyes scored 23 points in the NHL in his last season before joining the Islanders ... and hadn't really done anything in almost three years. I'll argue that they got lucky with him, as he looked to be done. Okposo was their own draft pick, and Grabner was picked up via waivers.

What Tavares has done for the Islanders, however, is provide them with an elite offensive talent (yes, elite) that has made all of these wingers better players. So, you add a guy like Tavares to the lineup of the Blue Jackets, and maybe 2-3 of our wingers become more valuable players also.

Let just add Tavares then...

 

[major major]

To be fair, the wingers that the Islanders have, were acquired with nothing to do with the presence of John Tavares. PA Parenteau in fact left for more money. But, their top scoring wings this year were Matt Moulson (44 points) Brad Boyes (35), Kyle Okposo (25), and Michael Grabner (21) ... in the case of Moulson, he was a "never has been" that hit the big time while playing for the Islanders. Maybe a late bloomer of sorts ... but, he never had a good offensive year in the NHL until he played for them, so I wouldn't really count him as a discounted free agent. Brad Boyes scored 23 points in the NHL in his last season before joining the Islanders ... and hadn't really done anything in almost three years. I'll argue that they got lucky with him, as he looked to be done. Okposo was their own draft pick, and Grabner was picked up via waivers.

What Tavares has done for the Islanders, however, is provide them with an elite offensive talent (yes, elite) that has made all of these wingers better players. So, you add a guy like Tavares to the lineup of the Blue Jackets, and maybe 2-3 of our wingers become more valuable players also.

I should have been clearer, I was thinking prospectively that wingers will sign for less with the Isles going forward, thinking of the Moulson and Boyes experience. Tavares is just now getting to that elite status where he is pulling in talent around him.

 

[Xoggz22]

With the big jump in Nichushkin consideration it's possible that McKinnon, Drouin or Barkov drops a little. As I read it, Nichushkin has cemented his status as a possible Top 3 pick in this draft after the combine. While I don't see any chance Florida would take him over McKinnon or Jones, I do think TB could pick him at #3 which would leave Barkov and Droin now likel to be part of the Top 5.

Point is, moving up may be even trickier now. We're truly going to have to see how the picks fall before ascertaining what we may give up, to which team and for whom. It's going to be very interesting draft day in NJ. I would absolutely love the opportunity to move up for McKinnon. He's a franchise center that would potentially provide the CBJ with another "face of the franchise" as well as a legitimate offensive talent for the next 10-15 years. He's also one of the few that would be likely to contribute to the team this year.

Think about it, if the CBJ could find a way to retain BOTH Johansen and Murray AND add McKinnon. Talk about amazing depth and youth. DROOL...

 

[Fro]

Think about it, if the CBJ could find a way to retain BOTH Johansen and Murray AND add McKinnon. Talk about amazing depth and youth. DROOL...

if its at all possible, i'm all for it...

 

[pete goegan]

Think about it, if the CBJ could find a way to retain BOTH Johansen and Murray AND add McKinnon. Talk about amazing depth and youth. DROOL...

Yes, that would be amazing, but I see no realistic way for it to happen.

 

[Roadman]

Yes, that would be amazing, but I see no realistic way for it to happen.

In spite of all the what if discussions, I don't see MacKinnon as realistic. At least not at any kind of a sane price. The probable over payment it would take would set the franchise back beyond reasonable contemplation.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

In spite of all the what if discussions, I don't see MacKinnon as realistic. At least not at any kind of a sane price. The probable over payment it would take would set the franchise back beyond reasonable contemplation.

Moreover, if he is certain to be as elite as some are saying, then why would a team forfeit its opportunity to draft him? What legitimate case can be made for Colorado or Florida to opt out?

 

[Fro]

the only way I see us being able to do it is a scenario like I laid out a couple pages ago...somehow we get up to 7 and then its 7, 14, + to get to 2...

 

[Skraut]

Moreover, if he is certain to be as elite as some are saying, then why would a team forfeit its opportunity to draft him? What legitimate case can be made for Colorado or Florida to opt out?

Exactly. Columbus wouldn't give up Ryan Murray and trade down 2 spots in exchange for 6 additional picks.

Yet people here just assume it won't be that hard to move up 13 places...

 

[Cash for Nash]

Exactly. Columbus wouldn't give up Ryan Murray and trade down 2 spots in exchange for 6 additional picks.

Yet people here just assume it won't be that hard to move up 13 places...

True...

But

3 firsts (deep draft) >>>>>>>>> 5 garbage picks in a weak draft (last year)

I still agree with you though. We have no real chance of getting into the top two.
If we could it would probably center on Murray + +

 

[Jackets16]

With the big jump in Nichushkin consideration it's possible that McKinnon, Drouin or Barkov drops a little. As I read it, Nichushkin has cemented his status as a possible Top 3 pick in this draft after the combine. While I don't see any chance Florida would take him over McKinnon or Jones, I do think TB could pick him at #3 which would leave Barkov and Droin now likel to be part of the Top 5.

Point is, moving up may be even trickier now. We're truly going to have to see how the picks fall before ascertaining what we may give up, to which team and for whom. It's going to be very interesting draft day in NJ. I would absolutely love the opportunity to move up for McKinnon. He's a franchise center that would potentially provide the CBJ with another "face of the franchise" as well as a legitimate offensive talent for the next 10-15 years. He's also one of the few that would be likely to contribute to the team this year.

Think about it, if the CBJ could find a way to retain BOTH Johansen and Murray AND add McKinnon. Talk about amazing depth and youth.

You still need to trade up into the top 2 to get MacKinnon. IMO, Jones and MacKinnon should be the first 2 taken. Also, I don't see a reason keep Johansen, unless you think he or Jenner can play LW or RW.

1C - MacKinnon
2C - Anisimov
3C - Dubinsky
4C - Jenner

I am not against keeping all 5. I just think it would be better asset management to trade Johansen to get MacKinnon.

 

[Jackets16]

Moreover, if he is certain to be as elite as some are saying, then why would a team forfeit its opportunity to draft him? What legitimate case can be made for Colorado or Florida to opt out?

If they think they have so many other needs or specific needs. Kind of like how we got better by trading Nash. We got more depth and the types of players we needed. I am not saying that is the case with Colorado or Florida. I am just pointing out a reason why a team might trade a very good player or the chance to draft one.

 

[Jackets16]

the only way I see us being able to do it is a scenario like I laid out a couple pages ago...somehow we get up to 7 and then its 7, 14, + to get to 2...

How do you plan on getting to 7 without trading 14?

 

[Fro]

How do you plan on getting to 7 without trading 14?

Nikitin and 19 (plus maybe savard/ruth's rights)

 

[Jackets16]

Nikitin and 19 (plus maybe savard/ruth's rights)

Okay. Not sure why any team would do that trade though.

 

[Fro]

Okay. Not sure why any team would do that trade though.

EDM needs top 4 dmen...he played like one...it was actually proposed by an EDM fan on trade boards a while back is where i pulled it from...

 

[Jackets16]

EDM needs top 4 dmen...he played like one...it was actually proposed by an EDM fan on trade boards a while back is where i pulled it from...

I don't think Nikitin is what they need, but okay.

 

[grindline]

Trade pick 19, Nikitin with salary retention and minor picks to Philadelphia. Trade the Philadelphia pick along with Umby on retained salary and the 14th, the 45th and a second next year for the MacKinnon pick.

Hey, it might not work but if I'm Jarmo I at least make the call and see how the conversation goes.

 

[CBJx614]

Florida and Colorado both said the picks are up for grabs if the right deal comes along..

Jenner LA's 1st and CBJ's 1st and a 2014 2nd to move up? Keeps Johansen and Murray while sacrificing Jenner and some picks to get Mackinnon. One of Jenner/Anisimov/Dubinsky/Johansen/Letestu is likely to be moved if we're making a deal to get Mackinnon.. By trading Jenner and the firsts (ik ik I don't like it either) we get a younger, possibly more nhl ready player, with a higher upside and a downside of probably Jenner.. I'm willing to sell the future for now. Investing in mackinnon is not only investing in the future but it helps us win now.


If only we knew what was going on in Jarmos mind..

 

[Columbus Jack]

Florida and Colorado both said the picks are up for grabs if the right deal comes along..

Jenner LA's 1st and CBJ's 1st and a 2014 2nd to move up? Keeps Johansen and Murray while sacrificing Jenner and some picks to get Mackinnon. One of Jenner/Anisimov/Dubinsky/Johansen/Letestu is likely to be moved if we're making a deal to get Mackinnon.. By trading Jenner and the firsts (ik ik I don't like it either) we get a younger, possibly more nhl ready player, with a higher upside and a downside of probably Jenner.. I'm willing to sell the future for now. Investing in mackinnon is not only investing in the future but it helps us win now.


If only we knew what was going on in Jarmos mind..

Too many 1sts being moved. Jenner will be a perfect third line center on a Stanley Cup team. I really cant see us moving him. Johansen has been up and down and quite frankly, I'd be more willing to move him instead. Johan and our 1st for MacKinnon seems like a quality deal imo.

 

[blahblah]

Florida and Colorado both said the picks are up for grabs if the right deal comes along..

Jenner LA's 1st and CBJ's 1st and a 2014 2nd to move up? Keeps Johansen and Murray while sacrificing Jenner and some picks to get Mackinnon. One of Jenner/Anisimov/Dubinsky/Johansen/Letestu is likely to be moved if we're making a deal to get Mackinnon.. By trading Jenner and the firsts (ik ik I don't like it either) we get a younger, possibly more nhl ready player, with a higher upside and a downside of probably Jenner.. I'm willing to sell the future for now. Investing in mackinnon is not only investing in the future but it helps us win now.


If only we knew what was going on in Jarmos mind..

To be honest, I have no desire to move Jenner. Even for MacKinnon. I wouldn't even bother to dream about moving up to 1 or 2. We discovered we are a team last season, I see no reason to trade all our currency or move prime assets.

I would probably be more interested in what Gagne proposed. However, that probably doesn't get it done. However, I'm not opposed to moving Johansen if the front office thinks its time to move on from that player.

 

[Fro]

Too many 1sts being moved. Jenner will be a perfect third line center on a Stanley Cup team. I really cant see us moving him. Johansen has been up and down and quite frankly, I'd be more willing to move him instead. Johan and our 1st for MacKinnon seems like a quality deal imo.

i don't know if I have the same love of Jenner as so many others do so I look at RyJo shutting down Jumbo Joe and think he can play the role of scorer and defense better than Jenner...but I don't have a problem with holding him and sending RyJo and a 1st to get MacK

I would probably be more interested in what Gagne proposed. However, that probably doesn't get it done. However, I'm not opposed to moving Johansen if the front office thinks its time to move on from that player.

if there are character problems, then sure...I agree...I agree that we don't necc HAVE TO move up and get MacK, but we have a serious need for scoring and a true 1C...I would love to have MacK, Johan, AA down the middle...and rolling three scoring lines...

 

[blahblah]

if there are character problems, then sure...I agree...I agree that we don't necc HAVE TO move up and get MacK, but we have a serious need for scoring and a true 1C...I would love to have MacK, Johan, AA down the middle...and rolling three scoring lines...

Meh, yes we need to score more goals. Probably doesn't need to come in the form of an elite center. To be honest, the part of this team I am the least concerned about is center outside of defense. I would like to see more of a play maker, doesn't matter to me of that is a wing or center.

Frankly I found Dubinsky to be superior at center over most of what you listed.

I think we're distracted by the pretty shiny thing over in the corner. Sure it would be great to have an elite center, but I wouldn't be upset trying to find one later in the draft(s) either. It does happen.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Meh, yes we need to score more goals. Probably doesn't need to come in the form of an elite center. To be honest, the part of this team I am the least concerned about is center outside of defense. I would like to see more of a play maker, doesn't matter to me of that is a wing or center.

Frankly I found Dubinsky to be superior at center over most of what you listed.

I think we're distracted by the pretty shiny thing over in the corner. Sure it would be great to have an elite center, but I wouldn't be upset trying to find one later in the draft(s) either. It does happen.

But more often the picks later in round 1 end up being 3rd or 4th line types. If you are going to build a big time team you need a few elite guys and you generally find them near the top of the draft. I know it is an extreme example, but how many 1st round picks would a team have traded in hindsight for Crosby or Lemieux? That is not saying MacKinnon is at that level because he is not, and clearly you trade less for a guy that hasn't proven it yet, but the value of an elite prospect (not good, elite) is easily 3-4 picks or good prospects.