2013 NHL Draft Thread III (6/30, 3PM EDT)

[Sore Loser]

Murray probably has, at best, the value of 5th overall pick. He's not nearly enough.

Disagree with an asterisk. I think a healthy Ryan Murray goes top-4 in this draft. With the injury troubles, you're right ... which is exactly why you don't trade him.

Remember when the Oilers wouldn't give up Eberle in exchange for the #4 pick to draft Ryan Johansen? How much value did Eberle gain soon after the draft? Made them look like geniuses ... I have a feeling we'll see similar from Ryan Murray.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Murray probably has, at best, the value of 5th overall pick. He's not nearly enough.

So we throw in a savard, or nyr first

 

[CBJx614]

As I said earlier, a Murray for McKinnon makes most since. Then we draft pulock at 14, and 2 forwards for our remaining 2. If your confident Jenner will make johansen redundant,then move Johan in a seperate transaction. We already have a pretty damn good defense, and need forwards that can score much more than what Murray would bring. Pretty sure galchenyuks stats would has been around the 3rd leading scorer on our team, as a rookie

Idk if galy has the same season here as he would in Montreal although I do wish we had selected him but we didn't and no trading murray for mackinnon doesn't make the most since. Our D was strong, in a shortened season. Next season will be almost double the games, and I'm sure many more injuries. If JJ and or Tyutin go down for any extended period of time our D would be a mess. Murray is the missing piece of that puzzle. And if we can get Mackinnon for Johansen and 2 picks or even Johansen 1/3 picks and any prospect but Jenner I'd probably do it. I'm sorry but looking back at the last few previous drafts 2 >>>>>>>> 14,19,27-29 picks combined every time. The percentages just aren't in our favor even if we get lucky. There were very few that had players falling to where we would've been picking and at them time no one knew better. We know what we have in Johansen, and we have a pretty good idea (and by we I mean JD and JK) of what we have in Murray. We also have a pretty good idea of what Mackinnon COULD do for this future. What we don't know is who will fall 14th 19th and 27th.

If by some miracle on June 31st we have Murray and Mackinnon, i will be one happy camper. And if Mack and Murray don't pan out I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Something else to consider..

we could offer this years first, the Kings pick & our 1st rounder for next year if you are really sure you want a certain player. I see an organization that has given up on its picks way to soon (for 1,000 different reasons), and IMO RyJo & Murray need to be foundation pieces of this organization going forward.

I look at the teams playing in the conference championships and they are literally loaded with drafted & developed talents. They each added pieces when the time was right but their lineups have drafted players. Solution.. Jarmo needs to draft well. We have a good nucleus of players here, we just need some elite snipers that skate and stick handle. I am confident Jarmo is scouring the globe for such players

 

[major major]

Basically trading a number 4, 14 and 27-30th for a #2 pick

I'm not a fan of valuing players by the number they were drafted at. Unless you're talking about 18 year olds it's out of date info.

 

[Jackets16]

I am not a big fan of trading future first round picks. I only like trading picks where I already know what position in the draft they will be.

 

[Cash for Nash]

I am not a big fan of trading future first round picks. I only like trading picks where I already know what position in the draft they will be.

Agree 100%.

I question where we are closer to the playoffs next year than picking in the top 6-7. We had an amazing run with a hot goaltender but will it continue. We don't have the horses to dominate up front and that won't change in this draft (at least in the next year or probably two).

Ask Toronto if they'd trade draft futures (Seguin, Hamilton) a couple of potential franchise type players for Phil Kessel. I'd hate to see that happen to the CBJ.

 

[EspenK]

From Puckrakers here's a deal that everyone will endorse:

As one (non CBJ) club executive suggested, it might take the Blue Jackets "two trades to get there." The first trade -- say, No. 14 and the late the Kings pick -- would vault the Blue Jackets into the No. 5-8 range. The second would be that freshly acquired pick and the No. 14 to get way up there.


That exec must be a HFer or Porty needs better proofreading.

 

[Jackets16]

From Puckrakers here's a deal that everyone will endorse:

As one (non CBJ) club executive suggested, it might take the Blue Jackets "two trades to get there." The first trade -- say, No. 14 and the late the Kings pick -- would vault the Blue Jackets into the No. 5-8 range. The second would be that freshly acquired pick and the No. 14 to get way up there.


That exec must be a HFer or Porty needs better proofreading.

LOL

 

[Nanabijou]

With Duchene, Stastny, and O'Reilly already locked up down the middle, it would be hard for me to see them passing on Seth Jones, who's ceiling is through the roof ... especially for a team short on strong defensemen. I won't say it's out of the question, but it would be quite surprising.

I see them cutting ties with both Stastny and OReilly after this next season, however, so I don't think they are that locked up during the center. With Roy now in charge, I see MacKinnon being more likely than Jones as their pick.

 

[Cash for Nash]

From Puckrakers here's a deal that everyone will endorse:

As one (non CBJ) club executive suggested, it might take the Blue Jackets "two trades to get there." The first trade -- say, No. 14 and the late the Kings pick -- would vault the Blue Jackets into the No. 5-8 range. The second would be that freshly acquired pick and the No. 14 to get way up there.


That exec must be a HFer or Porty needs better proofreading.

lol (true).

I wonder if the Kings pick (27) plus the 14th overall could get us in the top 7-8?

 

[Jackets16]

lol (true).

I wonder if the Kings pick (27) plus the 14th overall could get us in the top 7-8?

I think it could, but I don't think that pick and 19 would get us in the top 2 this year. It could though.

 

[Cash for Nash]

I think it could, but I don't think that pick and 19 would get us in the top 2 this year. It could though.

Yeah I don't either (top 2). Not even really believing that one.

Since we're all taking out of our ass here, I think the most realistic (good) scenario for us would be to get in the top 5-8 (14th, 27th overall) and hope someone like Barkov, Lindholm, Ristolein, etc falls to us. Someone has to fall. There's always a surprise or two.

Then (just speculating) trade the 19th overall to a team with cap issues (St Louis) or rebuilding (Buffalo) for an established mid late 20's top line forward and maybe get a 2nd rounder in return. Teams will have cap issues to consider. This is where we could benefit big time having the picks.

Thoughts?

 

[Jackets16]

Yeah I don't either (top 2). Not even really believing that one.

Since we're all taking out of our ass here, I think the most realistic (good) scenario for us would be to get in the top 5-8 (14th, 27th overall) and hope someone like Barkov, Lindholm, Ristolein, etc falls to us. Someone has to fall. There's always a surprise or two.

Then (just speculating) trade the 19th overall to a team with cap issues (St Louis) or rebuilding (Buffalo) for an established mid late 20's top line forward and maybe get a 2nd rounder in return. Teams will have cap issues to consider. This is where we could benefit big time having the picks.

Thoughts?

I still think we should just keep our picks. The only trade I would like is to move up for MacKinnon. I like Lindholm a lot, but I don't think he is worth trading up for. I would like to see us pick at 14 and then trade one of our other firsts to move down some and pick up an extra 2nd.

 

[Cash for Nash]

I still think we should just keep our picks. The only trade I would like is to move up for MacKinnon. I like Lindholm a lot, but I don't think he is worth trading up for. I would like to see us pick at 14 and then trade one of our other firsts to move down some and pick up an extra 2nd.

We need to come out of this summer with some more punch for "this year."

Whether that comes thru the draft or FA, or trade doesn't matter to me.

Don't like the idea of gambling that much that all 3 mid/late round firsts turn into Getzlaff, Perry, etc.

I see your point however.

 

[Samkow]

Disagree with an asterisk. I think a healthy Ryan Murray goes top-4 in this draft. With the injury troubles, you're right ... which is exactly why you don't trade him.

Remember when the Oilers wouldn't give up Eberle in exchange for the #4 pick to draft Ryan Johansen? How much value did Eberle gain soon after the draft? Made them look like geniuses ... I have a feeling we'll see similar from Ryan Murray.

The injury is what it is. Even without the injury, Murray (or Yakupov or Galy for that matter) wouldn't go top 3 in this draft. With the injury, he's definitely below Barkov.

And count me among those who thinks moving a whole bunch of assets to move into the top 3 is a huge mistake. I hope Kekalainen doesn't have the Shiny New Toy syndrome some on here have...

 

[JacketsFanWest]

I wonder if the Kings pick (27) plus the 14th overall could get us in the top 7-8?

My guess is that it would be enough to move up to the 9-11 range.

How many defensemen go may be the big factor. Teams that want a defenseman may be willing to drop down to #14 if there's a run on forwards in the top 10. The big question marks are where Nurse, Ristolainen and Zadorov go or if any other defensemen make a surprise jump into the top 10. If 4-5 defensemen go in the top 13, then #14 should be a really good forward. If the top 10 is primarily forwards, then trading up to 9-11 may be necessary to get even Zykov or Wennberg.

 

[Jackets16]

We need to come out of this summer with some more punch for "this year."

Whether that comes thru the draft or FA, or trade doesn't matter to me.

Don't like the idea of gambling that much that all 3 mid/late round firsts turn into Getzlaff, Perry, etc.

I see your point however.

I don't think it is smart to draft trying to improve your team the next year. Also, IMO, there are only 3 guys who are worth trading up for (MacKinnon, Jones, and Drouin). I just don't think anyone else is worth giving us as much as we would probably have to, to get them.

 

[Timeless Winter]

The injury is what it is. Even without the injury, Murray (or Yakupov or Galy for that matter) wouldn't go top 3 in this draft. With the injury, he's definitely below Barkov.

And count me among those who thinks moving a whole bunch of assets to move into the top 3 is a huge mistake. I hope Kekalainen doesn't have the Shiny New Toy syndrome some on here have...

Definitely, collecting 2nd/3rd liners is a recipe for future mediocrity. Sounds like a winner to me.

Quality > quantity. How do people not want top tier players?? I'm baffled.
This whole forum is way too paranoid of being burned in a trade. But this is the same message board that never wanted to trade Brule despite signs of him busting, said Filatov was the next Ovechkin, Fritsche is a top line center, etc etc. No one ever learns anything. And it's the same thing with Johansen now too, guys like RDriesen wouldn't trade him for Stamkos or Tavares.

 

[Sore Loser]

The injury is what it is. Even without the injury, Murray (or Yakupov or Galy for that matter) wouldn't go top 3 in this draft. With the injury, he's definitely below Barkov.

And count me among those who thinks moving a whole bunch of assets to move into the top 3 is a huge mistake. I hope Kekalainen doesn't have the Shiny New Toy syndrome some on here have...

There's no "SNT" syndrome with me. There's the want/desire to see this franchise add a player that can help out both immediately and in the long-term ... not necessarily adding three guys that are 2-3 years away from making an impact ... thus leaving us stuck in the mud as a "tweener" team.

Best case scenarios with keeping the picks that we have: We come away with a "faller" at #14 ... say, Max Domi. At 19 we hope to land an Anthony Mantha or Ryan Hartman, and with the Kings pick, we're lucky to nab a potential 2nd line player. The first of our picks, Max Domi, wouldn't be on our team for at least two full years. Mantha is only a year away from turning pro - that's if we get him - and he's a big of a project in his own right. Hartman, if that's where we end up, has somewhat limited offensive upside that would see him, at best, as a second line forward.

So we come into next year with an identical lineup - plus Ryan Murray on defence - maybe with the departure of some veterans, but in general a year longer in the teeth. Maybe we get Prospal back, maybe not. Gaborik's top line support continues to be Mark Letestu, and the franchise hopes that Ryan Johansen can take another step and be a big contributor. Or, we give away three second tier assets (granted, solid assets), and we come into the season with Nathan MacKinnon on our roster, giving us a bona fide potential first line forward that can make an impact right away ... especially alongside Marian Gaborik.

This team proved this season that it's ready to take a step forward right now ... not in 2-3 years. It's for that reason that I'm game for trying to hit a home run on a player like MacKinnon. Will I be disappointed if we don't? No ... and I also don't want to see us overpay. But, if there's a chance to still have three picks in the top 44, keep Ryan Murray, and add Nathan MacKinnon - with only giving up one roster forward - count me in.

 

[Cash for Nash]

There's no "SNT" syndrome with me. There's the want/desire to see this franchise add a player that can help out both immediately and in the long-term ... not necessarily adding three guys that are 2-3 years away from making an impact ... thus leaving us stuck in the mud as a "tweener" team.

Best case scenarios with keeping the picks that we have: We come away with a "faller" at #14 ... say, Max Domi. At 19 we hope to land an Anthony Mantha or Ryan Hartman, and with the Kings pick, we're lucky to nab a potential 2nd line player. The first of our picks, Max Domi, wouldn't be on our team for at least two full years. Mantha is only a year away from turning pro - that's if we get him - and he's a big of a project in his own right. Hartman, if that's where we end up, has somewhat limited offensive upside that would see him, at best, as a second line forward.

So we come into next year with an identical lineup - plus Ryan Murray on defence - maybe with the departure of some veterans, but in general a year longer in the teeth. Maybe we get Prospal back, maybe not. Gaborik's top line support continues to be Mark Letestu, and the franchise hopes that Ryan Johansen can take another step and be a big contributor. Or, we give away three second tier assets (granted, solid assets), and we come into the season with Nathan MacKinnon on our roster, giving us a bona fide potential first line forward that can make an impact right away ... especially alongside Marian Gaborik.

This team proved this season that it's ready to take a step forward right now ... not in 2-3 years. It's for that reason that I'm game for trying to hit a home run on a player like MacKinnon. Will I be disappointed if we don't? No ... and I also don't want to see us overpay. But, if there's a chance to still have three picks in the top 44, keep Ryan Murray, and add Nathan MacKinnon - with only giving up one roster forward - count me in.

Exactly where I'm at. This team can take another step forward (I think) if it adds a legitimate scoring threat. And I don't mean a 30+ old quick fix (like Gaborik).

I only differ in the fact that I wouldn't really want to include Johansen in the deal. I'm just not sold that he can't be a great player here. Not yet.

My question: If you were the GM and there was a bonafide first line winger available (cap issues) for picks say a package centering on either the 19th or 27th or both, how young would the "proposed player" have to be to fulfill the CBJ's long term plans. 21 years old? 24 years old? 28 years old?

 

[EspenK]

There's no "SNT" syndrome with me. There's the want/desire to see this franchise add a player that can help out both immediately and in the long-term ... not necessarily adding three guys that are 2-3 years away from making an impact ... thus leaving us stuck in the mud as a "tweener" team.

Best case scenarios with keeping the picks that we have: We come away with a "faller" at #14 ... say, Max Domi. At 19 we hope to land an Anthony Mantha or Ryan Hartman, and with the Kings pick, we're lucky to nab a potential 2nd line player. The first of our picks, Max Domi, wouldn't be on our team for at least two full years. Mantha is only a year away from turning pro - that's if we get him - and he's a big of a project in his own right. Hartman, if that's where we end up, has somewhat limited offensive upside that would see him, at best, as a second line forward.

So we come into next year with an identical lineup - plus Ryan Murray on defence - maybe with the departure of some veterans, but in general a year longer in the teeth. Maybe we get Prospal back, maybe not. Gaborik's top line support continues to be Mark Letestu, and the franchise hopes that Ryan Johansen can take another step and be a big contributor. Or, we give away three second tier assets (granted, solid assets), and we come into the season with Nathan MacKinnon on our roster, giving us a bona fide potential first line forward that can make an impact right away ... especially alongside Marian Gaborik.

This team proved this season that it's ready to take a step forward right now ... not in 2-3 years. It's for that reason that I'm game for trying to hit a home run on a player like MacKinnon. Will I be disappointed if we don't? No ... and I also don't want to see us overpay. But, if there's a chance to still have three picks in the top 44, keep Ryan Murray, and add Nathan MacKinnon - with only giving up one roster forward - count me in.

Your point about a forever tweener team is a real one and while this year's playoff near miss was exciting and a positive for a good news starved franchise, I don't see the team making great strides in the future while picking 12 and above forever. Adding a guy like MacKinnon for a cost that you suggest (and I would add even slightly greater) along with Murray plus a couple of others would go a long way to moving this franchise forward.

 

[major major]

There's no "SNT" syndrome with me. There's the want/desire to see this franchise add a player that can help out both immediately and in the long-term ... not necessarily adding three guys that are 2-3 years away from making an impact ... thus leaving us stuck in the mud as a "tweener" team.

Best case scenarios with keeping the picks that we have: We come away with a "faller" at #14 ... say, Max Domi. At 19 we hope to land an Anthony Mantha or Ryan Hartman, and with the Kings pick, we're lucky to nab a potential 2nd line player. The first of our picks, Max Domi, wouldn't be on our team for at least two full years. Mantha is only a year away from turning pro - that's if we get him - and he's a big of a project in his own right. Hartman, if that's where we end up, has somewhat limited offensive upside that would see him, at best, as a second line forward.

So we come into next year with an identical lineup - plus Ryan Murray on defence - maybe with the departure of some veterans, but in general a year longer in the teeth. Maybe we get Prospal back, maybe not. Gaborik's top line support continues to be Mark Letestu, and the franchise hopes that Ryan Johansen can take another step and be a big contributor. Or, we give away three second tier assets (granted, solid assets), and we come into the season with Nathan MacKinnon on our roster, giving us a bona fide potential first line forward that can make an impact right away ... especially alongside Marian Gaborik.

This team proved this season that it's ready to take a step forward right now ... not in 2-3 years. It's for that reason that I'm game for trying to hit a home run on a player like MacKinnon. Will I be disappointed if we don't? No ... and I also don't want to see us overpay. But, if there's a chance to still have three picks in the top 44, keep Ryan Murray, and add Nathan MacKinnon - with only giving up one roster forward - count me in.

No SNT here either. But for me the whole Mackinnon thing is not at all about the next couple years, although I do think he will be helpful right away. I just see us as a team with an unusually full complement of "b" level players, and we have more than enough to move a few to get an "A+". I think this will be a longstanding problem for us.

I don't know that he'll be A+, of course, but we're talking about a player who also has very limited downside. Here's a couple things about Mackinnon that I think some are overlooking:

He should be a very good defensive center, as he has all the tools - strength, speed, positioning, smarts, attention to detail, coachability - that go into making a great defensive forward. This is why Toews is a very good comparison both stylistically and in terms of potential impact.

If he is a first-line center (which is not just his upside but a likelihood) then we're talking about a player that wingers are going to want to play around. Think of what Tavares has done for the Islanders. The Isles would have to pay so much more than the market rate for top wingers if they didn't have Tavares. The Jackets don't need that kind of help as much as the Isles do, but it's still a big help to have that kind of cornerstone.

 

[major major]

Exactly where I'm at. This team can take another step forward (I think) if it adds a legitimate scoring threat. And I don't mean a 30+ old quick fix (like Gaborik).

I only differ in the fact that I wouldn't really want to include Johansen in the deal. I'm just not sold that he can't be a great player here. Not yet.

My question: If you were the GM and there was a bonafide first line winger available (cap issues) for picks say a package centering on either the 19th or 27th or both, how young would the "proposed player" have to be to fulfill the CBJ's long term plans. 21 years old? 24 years old? 28 years old?

The more RFA years the better. You'd have to be confident that you keep resigning a player if he's at UFA age. Then again they did it for Gaborik, so perhaps this is not a concern of Jarmo/JD.

 

[Crede777]

With the injury, he's definitely below Barkov.

Is that accounting for the fact that Barkov also dislocated his shoulder (recently)?