2013-2014 Hartford Wolf Pack/Greenville Road Warriors Thread Part II

[Hunter Gathers]

Worst defender in terms of ES efficiency with 10+ GP. Yikes.

Meaningless stat is meaningless.

 

[ArPanet]

I don't care what the board consensus was. In 2008, the board consensus was Jared Staal, who's now a crappy AHLer. The only other player whose name was chanted on this board was Kirill Petrov who is a meh KHLer now. Not one person wanted Stepan, an off the board pick.

In 2011, everyone wanted a big guy like Biggs, Armia or McNeill. One is a crappy AHLer, borderline ECHLer, and the other two are a meh AHLers right now and most don't view them as more than potential bottom-6ers or worse. The three combined couldn't get you J.T. Miller in a trade.

Most of our selections, this board is clamoring for someone who turns out to be a minor leaguer. So one time some of the people here get it right with Tara. Who cares?

Think of it this way: imagine you had a stock broker whose stock picks rose twice the rate of a good market and fell half the rate of a bad market. Would you be happy with him or would you demand he always picks the best stock of the year, citing the one time you guessed that Google would be a good stock?

So if it's okay to look at Biggs, McNeil and Armia and project the future for them, then why is it wrong to say that, since McIlrath was horrible with the Rangers, he's an AHL level lower pairing d man/goon?

 

[Miamipuck]

So if it's okay to look at Biggs, McNeil and Armia and project the future for them, then why is it wrong to say that, since McIlrath was horrible with the Rangers, he's an AHL level lower pairing d man/goon?

You absolutely can say that, this is a free country and stupid opinions are not outlawed.

 

[Raspewtin]

So if it's okay to look at Biggs, McNeil and Armia and project the future for them, then why is it wrong to say that, since McIlrath was horrible with the Rangers, he's an AHL level lower pairing d man/goon?

God your agenda bleeds out of every post you write.

McIlrath didn't look ideal in his 3 NHL games this year, therefore, AHL goon.

Got it.

 

[Bardof425*]

You absolutely can say that, this is a free country and stupid opinions are not outlawed.

here, here.

 

[BBKers]

Hindsight of course is 20/20 and I know there were those advocating for Fowler and Tarasenko at the time but those guys had different risks. Fowler is/was soft and we already had MDZ and Vlad couild have stayed in Russia (and still may go back; who knows). If you re-did the draft alot of teams would take Tarasenko before 17; not just us. We really got to get past this. McI prior to his recent injury bug was developing nicely for a Dman his size. Patience I believe will win out here. He won't be more valuable than Tarasenko but he will fill a gaping hole on our team and that is why he was picked in the first place.

He is going to take time. He may never make it as an NHL regular - Rooting for the guy (as his mould fills a need) but do not like what he has shown so far. Needs to step up next year or the bust label will begin to earn legitimate valor.

 

[Beacon]

So if it's okay to look at Biggs, McNeil and Armia and project the future for them, then why is it wrong to say that, since McIlrath was horrible with the Rangers, he's an AHL level lower pairing d man/goon?

Biggs is barely playing AHL hockey. I am not projecting here, just stating today's reality.

Mci wasn't horrible with the Rangers, just not ready yet. He can be a quality big defenseman, which is what he is in the AHL right now.

The point I was making is that scouts will be more accurate then fans 95% of the time, but tans will only remember the other 5%.

 

[Bluenote13]

The point I was making is that scouts will be more accurate then fans 95% of the time, but tans will only remember the other 5%.

Not true.

Every year there are posters on this board who make better picks than the pro scouts.

And again, just because those two shining beacons atop the NHL Dallas and Edmonton(both teams stacked at the forward position dont forget) wanted to take MCI doesn't make it any better that we passed over much talented players. It was seen that way then and nothing has changed since.

 

[NYR Viper]

Biggs is barely playing AHL hockey. I am not projecting here, just stating today's reality.

Mci wasn't horrible with the Rangers, just not ready yet. He can be a quality big defenseman, which is what he is in the AHL right now.

The point I was making is that scouts will be more accurate then fans 95% of the time, but tans will only remember the other 5%.

I'm not sure he was as bad as his minutes showed either. It's a big jump going from 20 minutes a night in the AHL to 5 minutes in the NHL. Hard to stay warm.

I think he could play 10-12 minutes right now in the NHL consistently. There would be growing pains obviously but I don't think he is that far away.

I still project him as a top-4 defensive d-man.

 

[eco's bones]

Once the Wolfpack lost Kreider and Talbot early in the season they became a bad team. People were always *****ing about Newbury but he played a key role for the Rangers AHL franchise the past few years. At the AHL level he's a legit 1st line player you can build some kind of offense around. You absolutely need a vet or two like that every year. Just throwing a bunch of rookies--no matter how talented--onto your top lines is a recipe for disaster. It's pretty much what the Oilers have done at the NHL level the past few years. The same goes with the D--you absolutely need a couple competent vets there until the kids can get their feet wet. And nobody wins without good goaltending. I don't think McIlrath has had too many games with Grumet-Morris or Talbot this year. He's had a lot of his with Jason Missiaen. You might as well forget about stats.

 

[Bluenote13]

I'm not sure he was as bad as his minutes showed either. It's a big jump going from 20 minutes a night in the AHL to 5 minutes in the NHL. Hard to stay warm.

I think he could play 10-12 minutes right now in the NHL consistently. There would be growing pains obviously but I don't think he is that far away.

I still project him as a top-4 defensive d-man.

Good point.

His NHL minutes this year should all be about learning, thats exactly where he is in this stage of his career. #4 Dman is his for the taking next year and thereafter, when he's healthy.

 

[Bluenote13]

Once the Wolfpack lost Kreider and Talbot early in the season they became a bad team. People were always *****ing about Newbury but he played a key role for the Rangers AHL franchise the past few years. At the AHL level he's a legit 1st line player you can build some kind of offense around. You absolutely need a vet or two like that every year. Just throwing a bunch of rookies--no matter how talented--onto your top lines is a recipe for disaster. It's pretty much what the Oilers have done at the NHL level the past few years. The same goes with the D--you absolutely need a couple competent vets there until the kids can get their feet wet. And nobody wins without good goaltending. I don't think McIlrath has had too many games with Grumet-Morris or Talbot this year. He's had a lot of his with Jason Missiaen. You might as well forget about stats.

I really don't think he's had a bad season at all in the 'A'. Bad team, yes, but he was fairly consistent defensively.

 

[NYR Viper]

Good point.

His NHL minutes this year should all be about learning, thats exactly where he is in this stage of his career. #4 Dman is his for the taking next year and thereafter, when he's healthy.

Exactly. Everyone knew he was going to be a project, however his talents are unique in the new NHL.

Once the Wolfpack lost Kreider and Talbot early in the season they became a bad team. People were always *****ing about Newbury but he played a key role for the Rangers AHL franchise the past few years. At the AHL level he's a legit 1st line player you can build some kind of offense around. You absolutely need a vet or two like that every year. Just throwing a bunch of rookies--no matter how talented--onto your top lines is a recipe for disaster. It's pretty much what the Oilers have done at the NHL level the past few years. The same goes with the D--you absolutely need a couple competent vets there until the kids can get their feet wet. And nobody wins without good goaltending. I don't think McIlrath has had too many games with Grumet-Morris or Talbot this year. He's had a lot of his with Jason Missiaen. You might as well forget about stats.

Agreed, although McIlrath has more than held his own on the teams top pair for over a year now.

I really don't think he's had a bad season at all in the 'A'. Bad team, yes, but he was fairly consistent defensively.

I would say he has had a good year in the AHL this year. Not flashy by any means but he is a pure shut-down, mean d-man.

 

[McRanger]

My only concern about McIlrath is that one day his legs are going to snap off.

He seems like one of those guys that are just naturally brittle.

I wonder if he is related to the Lindros's or Sauer's.

 

[NYR Viper]

My only concern about McIlrath is that one day his legs are going to snap off.

He seems like one of those guys that are just naturally brittle.

I wonder if he is related to the Lindros's or Sauer's.

He plays a very physical style. He is going to have bumps and bruises.

 

[eco's bones]

I really don't think he's had a bad season at all in the 'A'. Bad team, yes, but he was fairly consistent defensively.

Well--didn't mean to imply that I thought Dylan was having a bad season. Basically I think our first and second year pros have been put in a very difficult situation. Numbers are going to be skewed in any case when goaltending is not good. That being said I think Dylan's been set back by injuries again and I think he needs more development before he's ready. I think we can look maybe at next season or maybe christmas time next year again.

 

[NYR Viper]

Well--didn't mean to imply that I thought Dylan was having a bad season. Basically I think our first and second year pros have been put in a very difficult situation. Numbers are going to be skewed in any case when goaltending is not good. That being said I think Dylan's been set back by injuries again and I think he needs more development before he's ready. I think we can look maybe at next season or maybe christmas time next year again.

I think he will be ready by next Training Camp. Another off-season of training the way he does will do wonders for a kid his size.

 

[Beacon]

[/B]Needs to step up next year or the bust label will begin to earn legitimate valor.

Agreed. As a 22 year old, you need to step up. The cuddling ends this year.

 

[McRanger]

He plays a very physical style. He is going to have bumps and bruises.

You don't have to play a overtly physical game to be injury prone. To be having serious knee or upper body injuries at his age is worrying.

Players don't get less brittle with age.

 

[ArPanet]

Not true.

Every year there are posters on this board who make better picks than the pro scouts.

And again, just because those two shining beacons atop the NHL Dallas and Edmonton(both teams stacked at the forward position dont forget) wanted to take MCI doesn't make it any better that we passed over much talented players. It was seen that way then and nothing has changed since.

Not to mention, Dallas and Edmonton have since fired their GMs.

 

[NYR Viper]

You don't have to play a overtly physical game to be injury prone. To be having serious knee or upper body injuries at his age is worrying.

Players don't get less brittle with age.

Serious upper body injury? When did that occur?

He has had (1) long term injury on a freak accident where he collided knees with Jean. Besides that, it has been short term bumps and bruises.

 

[ArPanet]

You absolutely can say that, this is a free country and stupid opinions are not outlawed.

Yes, I agree with you. Somebody saying they know already the ultimate upsides for Biggs, Armia, and McNeil is protected speech.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Agreed. As a 22 year old, you need to step up. The cuddling ends this year.

Cuddling?





Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Beacon]

Yes, I agree with you. Somebody saying they know already the ultimate upsides for Biggs, Armia, and McNeil is protected speech.

While you never know how a 20 year old will turn out, these 3 players (who were pushed for by a large majority of the forum experts with nobody that I remember pushing for Miller) would not get you JT Miller today. Anything can happen in the future, but if a trade were to take today with Miller being exchanged for McNeil, Armia and Biggs, I'd be pretty mad about it.

Gordie Clarke is a real draft expert, one of the best, if not the best, in the game. Even if someone here is more intelligent than him, which is very possible and in fact it's likely that some people here have a higher IQ, it still doesn't mean that you know more hockey. Intelligence doesn't mean that you know everything better. Furthermore, even if you did understand hockey better, you'd still probably be wrong more than he is because you have your own job and while you are busy with that, he's watching players and speaking to them and about them.

An occasional hit by a fan or a miss by a scout proves nothing. The Rangers have done FAR better than most teams in the same draft position, and that's all we can ask for.

 

[McRanger]

Serious upper body injury? When did that occur?

He has had (1) long term injury on a freak accident where he collided knees with Jean. Besides that, it has been short term bumps and bruises.

Regardless of how it happened, being 21 and already having had a serious knee surgery is worrisome. Him re-injuring it in December is not a positive sign.

Anyway some players are just built to break down. It wasn't just concussions with Lindros, it was knees, back, collapsed lung. Same with Sauer. Hip. Knee. Shoulder. And finally a concussion. Same with his brothers. Or Radek Martinek. Knee. Concussion. Back.

We'll see if he avoids the injury bug. He will need to if he wants to break into the NHL. Sometimes there are those guys that just can't. I have the same concern for Ryan Bourque.