OT: 2012-2013 NBA Discussion Thread: Defense? What is defense?

[silverfish]

Man, I forgot how much 'Melo and JR shoot.

KMart going into absolute beastmode was clutch with Chandler not making much of an impact.

Refs couldn't decide if they wanted to let the boys play, or call every ticky-tack foul.

I'll continue to maintain my beliefs that Raymond Felton is the most important part of this team's successes on the offensive side of the ball.

JKidd still got it.

 

[Kakko]

Our whole starting 5 can play like ****, and our bench can still turn it up and win

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Our whole starting 5 can play like ****, and our bench can still turn it up and win

Kenyon mother****ing Martin.

Copeland and Novak will be the odd men out once Amare and Prigs are back.

 

[ecemleafs]

The Celtics adjusted their defense. It happens. Its extremely difficult to have four consistent shooting quarters inb the postseason, especially against a good defensive team.

I thought Melo was just fine. He didnt pass the ball as much as I would have liked him to, but nobody was hitting shots anyway.

He sat out the first 5 mins of the 2nd and still had 6 points that quarter. In the 3rd he hit two huge three with the Knicks down 4 and 3.

It was a sloppy game for everyone on both sides. Under the circumstances, Melo did what he had to do.

melo was in ISO mode taking contested long 2's nearly every possession in between his quick start in the 1st quarter and the 4th quarter.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

melo was in ISO mode taking contested long 2's nearly every possession in between his quick start in the 1st quarter and the 4th quarter.

Yeah because the C's would collapse if he tried to drive.

I dont understand what the issue is. Do people really expect him to shoot 60pct from the floor every quarter of every game?

 

[Kershaw]

Nets putting a beatdown on the Bulls.

 

[Zil]

Yeah because the C's would collapse if he tried to drive.

I dont understand what the issue is. Do people really expect him to shoot 60pct from the floor every quarter of every game?

No, but it would be nice for him to move the ball rather than forcing a up a low percentage shot for no good reason.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Jeff Green, and Kenyon Martin are the X-factors for this series. Hopefully Woodson makes the appropriate adjustments before next game. I wish our Rangers coach actually made adjustments based on the way the game was played. I have faith in Woodson, he's a very smart coach. Only thing I don't like is the excessive 3 balls. You live and die with the 3, you can stay afloat during the season,it when the playoffs comes, it's a different ball game, you die by the 3 in the playoffs. Lets go inside out and then if we need to, have a big kick it out to a wide open shooter behind the arc. Pumped for game 2.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

No, but it would be nice for him to move the ball rather than forcing a up a low percentage shot for no good reason.

If they were doubling him I agree. But He had a hot hand in the 1st, sat out half the 2nd, and tried to regain his touch in the 3rd.

Plus, nobody was really hitting shots. Smith was but he creates his own shot.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

If they were doubling him I agree. But He had a hot hand in the 1st, sat out half the 2nd, and tried to regain his touch in the 3rd.

Plus, nobody was really hitting shots. Smith was but he creates his own shot.

That's the main problem, nobody was hitting shots. I didn't like what Melo was doing, but there's really not much else that he could've done since the team as a whole was just throwing bricks- and i'd rather have Melo chucking it up than letting somebody else brick it and having NO chance t oscore.

Melo and JR were giving me flashbacks of their worst days in Denver in the second and third, but that 4th quarter really put my mind at ease.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Anyone see the Nets game last night? Friggin' beastly. Carved up the Bulls.

This is why I am so excited by this team. IMO the only team in the league with legitimate quality starters at every position - including a top 10 SG, a top 3 PG (yes, D-Will is top 3 - if you haven't seen him recently, he's been playing at his Utah level ever since the All-Star break) and arguably the best center in the league. Then, they have legitimate backups at every position as well.

The only thing that's held them back so far is injuries. D-Will was banged up all through the first half, Lopez was out for a stretch, both JJ and Crash missed time as well... Now, for the first time all year, the whole roster seems to be healthy - and that's a scary proposition for any opponent.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Anyone see the Nets game last night? Friggin' beastly. Carved up the Bulls.

This is why I am so excited by this team. IMO the only team in the league with legitimate quality starters at every position - including a top 10 SG, a top 3 PG (yes, D-Will is top 3 - if you haven't seen him recently, he's been playing at his Utah level ever since the All-Star break) and arguably the best center in the league. Then, they have legitimate backups at every position as well.

The only thing that's held them back so far is injuries. D-Will was banged up all through the first half, Lopez was out for a stretch, both JJ and Crash missed time as well... Now, for the first time all year, the whole roster seems to be healthy - and that's a scary proposition for any opponent.

Werent you a Knicks fan 8 months ago? What happened?

 

[5 4 Fighting]

I see the nets losing in the 2nd round. Lopez is arguably top 5, D-Will is top 5, and Wallace is a top 5 defender for a 3/4 hybrid. Need to get hot to advance past Chicago. Good luck.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Center I take before Lopez
1. Howard
2. Bynum
3. Chandler
4. Hibbert (oozes potential at 7'3"
5. Noah (arguable)

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Anyone see the Nets game last night? Friggin' beastly. Carved up the Bulls.

This is why I am so excited by this team. IMO the only team in the league with legitimate quality starters at every position - including a top 10 SG, a top 3 PG (yes, D-Will is top 3 - if you haven't seen him recently, he's been playing at his Utah level ever since the All-Star break) and arguably the best center in the league. Then, they have legitimate backups at every position as well.

The only thing that's held them back so far is injuries. D-Will was banged up all through the first half, Lopez was out for a stretch, both JJ and Crash missed time as well... Now, for the first time all year, the whole roster seems to be healthy - and that's a scary proposition for any opponent.

Best center in the league... are you mad? 1 - can't be the best center in the league when you're injured for large chunks every ****ing season. 2 - he's had 1 dominant season, and that's been this year. 3 - he just put it all together and he's still not as good as howard, tyson, or noah. He's definitely made leaps and bounds this year, but best center in the league? No way.

Top 10 SG in Gerald Wallace? Let's see how elite he is being guarded against Wade/Lebron, or Shumpert.

No argument on Deron, i've loved his play since his Illinois days.

They're scary, are maybe good for 1 upset this playoffs, but I don't think they can match up with the Heat, Knicks, or Pacers.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Center I take before Lopez
1. Howard
2. Bynum
3. Chandler
4. Hibbert (oozes potential at 7'3"
5. Noah (arguable)

Bynum is never on the court. Under this same logic Greg Oden should be in your top 5.

Hibbert is a very under rated player. Top 5? Not yet/may never be.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Bynum is never on the court. Under this same logic Greg Oden should be in your top 5.

Hibbert is a very under rated player. Top 5? Not yet/may never be.

I take Chandler, Hibbert and Noah over Lopez, in that order.

Lopez is the best scorer, though. Just doesn't come close to any of those 3 defensively.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Werent you a Knicks fan 8 months ago? What happened?

Hahaha - I forgot you've been out of country. You must've missed the whole debate over last summer. I was a Knicks fan, but with my home borough getting its own team and the Lin debacle both happening at the same time, I officially made the switch.

I see the nets losing in the 2nd round. Lopez is arguably top 5, D-Will is top 5, and Wallace is a top 5 defender for a 3/4 hybrid. Need to get hot to advance past Chicago. Good luck.

Seems to me they could cool off from how they played on Saturday to get past Chicago. Like I said - I think they can beat any team in the league, except Miami. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone beating the stupid Heatles.

Center I take before Lopez
1. Howard
2. Bynum
3. Chandler
4. Hibbert (oozes potential at 7'3"
5. Noah (arguable)

Crazy talk. Howard is the ONE possible argument. (Which is why I said "arguably the best".) Dwight is clearly the better defender and rebounder, but Lopez has improved dramatically in both areas and is the much better offensive player. Throw in the fact that you can't have Howard on the floor in the closing minutes of a tight game due to his inability to hit FTs... it can go either way.

Bynum misses more time than Lopez and, while more athletic, isn't actually better than Lopez at either offense or defense.

Chandler? Really? Clearly a Knick fan speaking. I love Tyson - he was one of my favorites on the Knicks. But, while he is a great leader, rebounder and defender, he is not dramatically better than Lopez in any of those areas - and he's multiple tiers below him on offense.

You give Hibbert credit for 7'3" and potential, yet would pick him over Lopez who is 7'1" and has actually realized his potential (and is continuing to improve)? C'mon. (And, for the record, the Hoyas are my major college team.)

Noah is a solid player with great athleticism and a phenomenal motor, but he has a significant size disadvantage and, again, is the dramatically inferior offensive player.

Serious question: how much have you watched Lopez this year? He has become a dominant force on both the offensive and defensive ends and his rebounding is getting dramatically better (he'd average more if Evans didn't take so many of them).

Best center in the league... are you mad? 1 - can't be the best center in the league when you're injured for large chunks every ****ing season. 2 - he's had 1 dominant season, and that's been this year. 3 - he just put it all together and he's still not as good as howard, tyson, or noah. He's definitely made leaps and bounds this year, but best center in the league? No way.

Top 10 SG in Gerald Wallace? Let's see how elite he is being guarded against Wade/Lebron, or Shumpert.

No argument on Deron, i've loved his play since his Illinois days.

They're scary, are maybe good for 1 upset this playoffs, but I don't think they can match up with the Heat, Knicks, or Pacers.

See above regarding Lopez. As for the top 10 SG, I think maybe you forgot the Nets have Joe Johnson...? Hard to argue he isn't at least the 10th best SG in the league.

We'll see how far they go - I like their chances against anyone other than Miami.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Yes, Tyson is LEAGUES above Brook when it comes to defense. It can't be understated how much better Tyson is. This year Tyson struggled a little, but every year sans this one Tyson blows Lopez out of the water. This year I still take Tyson sans his late season injury swoon.

edit- I don't really want to push the issue but it's disgusting how underrated Tyson STILL is. "Clearly a Knick fan" speaking? No, clearly somebody who watches basketball.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

And I can't believe we forgot Marc Gasol.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Yes, Tyson is LEAGUES above Brook when it comes to defense. It can't be understated how much better Tyson is. This year Tyson struggled a little, but every year sans this one Tyson blows Lopez out of the water.

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. Tyson is by no means LEAGUES better than Lopez on defense. He is a marginally better defensive player (and for the record, that is a compliment on Brook's improvement, not any knock on Tyson's skill), but the only area where there is leagues difference is on offense.

Seriously - how much have you guys actually watched Lopez this year? I've watched nearly every game. He is far and away the best offensive center in the league - hell, he's one of the most dangerous offensive PLAYERS in the league - and he's become a difference maker on defense as well. To use the HF convention:

Defense: Chandler > Lopez
Offense: Lopez >>> Chandler

Brook is the overall better player - and again, Tyson is one of my favorite players in the league not on the Nets. But you don't have to take my word for it, check Hollinger's stats:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

Lopez is FIFTH in the league. Chandler? 43rd.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. Tyson is by no means LEAGUES better than Lopez on defense. He is a marginally better defensive player (and for the record, that is a compliment on Brook's improvement, not any knock on Tyson's skill), but the only area where there is leagues difference is on offense.

Seriously - how much have you guys actually watched Lopez this year? I've watched nearly every game. He is far and away the best offensive center in the league - hell, he's one of the most dangerous offensive PLAYERS in the league - and he's become a difference maker on defense as well. To use the HF convention:

Defense: Chandler > Lopez
Offense: Lopez >>> Chandler

Brook is the overall better player - and again, Tyson is one of my favorite players in the league not on the Nets. But you don't have to take my word for it, check Hollinger's stats:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

Lopez is FIFTH in the league. Chandler? 43rd.

First, I'd like to say I hate talking basketball with people because everyone has their favorite player and everyone uses some sort of subjective stat(s) to try and prove their point. I hate it.

Next... Hollinger is a horrific statistician. I will never take his stats as a form of credibility. His advice has led multiple franchises to now make horrible trades.

How you came about to the conclusion that Tyson is marginally better than Lopez on defense yet astronomically worse on offense is beyond me. The dude won DPOY last year and is still being disrespected? I'm not arguing offense. Lopez has great offensive ability. But even mentioning him in the same sentence as Tyson defensively is laughable.

Argue/think what you will, I'd much rather have Tyson Chandler than Brook Lopez on my team any day.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

First, I'd like to say I hate talking basketball with people because everyone has their favorite player and everyone uses some sort of subjective stat(s) to try and prove their point. I hate it.

Next... Hollinger is a horrific statistician. I will never take his stats as a form of credibility. His advice has led multiple franchises to now make horrible trades.

How you came about to the conclusion that Tyson is marginally better than Lopez on defense yet astronomically worse on offense is beyond me. The dude won DPOY last year and is still being disrespected? I'm not arguing offense. Lopez has great offensive ability. But even mentioning him in the same sentence as Tyson defensively is laughable.

Argue/think what you will, I'd much rather have Tyson Chandler than Brook Lopez on my team any day.

And with that last statement, what are you doing other than simply saying Chandler is one of your favorite players and that's the reason you'd rather have him?

You don't like Hollinger's PER? How about PPG? Blocks? Lopez nearly DOUBLED Chandler in both. (And he actually played a few less minutes per game.) His "normal" PER is 25% higher. The one area where Chandler outperformed him was in rebounds, where he averaged 3.5 more per game. (I'll give that to you even though I think it's mostly due to the fact that Reggie Evans is sucking up every available rebound.)

But leaving stats aside - again, how much have you watched Lopez this year? Did you watch him on Saturday?

Remember I was a Knicks fan up until this year. I've watched a full season of both players (and have also had some limited viewings of Tyson this year, which I think we can all agree wasn't quite as good a year). So, you should really stop painting me with the "fan of another team who's disrespecting Chandler because I haven't watched him enough to appreciate him" brush - it's much more likely that applies to you regarding Lopez than it does to me regarding Chandler. (And if you've actually watched 70+ Nets games this year, my apologies - although, in that case, I am left scratching my head as to why you don't agree with me.)

Up until this year, I would have agreed with you that he was as good or better. When I started following the Nets, I desperately hoped that they'd be able to close the deal for Howard, which wouldn't meant Lopez and a whole slew of other pieces going the other way. Now I'm glad it never happened. Both Lopez's offense and defense have improved markedly this year and the result has been a closing of the gap with Tyson on the defensive side and a widening of the gap on the offensive side. Tyson is a great player - and he used to be the better player - but Lopez has developed and passed him.

 

[ImIdaho]

Hahaha - I forgot you've been out of country. You must've missed the whole debate over last summer. I was a Knicks fan, but with my home borough getting its own team and the Lin debacle both happening at the same time, I officially made the switch.

That's a poor and horrible excuse. So if Sather goofs something in the near future, you'll commit to being an Isles fan?

And I live in Brooklyn and here's what I have to say on both the Nets and Islanders: **** 'em!

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

That's a poor and horrible excuse. So if Sather goofs something in the near future, you'll commit to being an Isles fan?

And I live in Brooklyn and here's what I have to say on both the Nets and Islanders: **** 'em!

Sigh. If you're really interested in the story, you can search the history of this thread (or one of the previous threads) for the full details, but it wasn't JUST one incident, it was 15 years of abuse of the fanbase by Dolan. The Lin debacle was just the straw that broke the camel's back.