Prospect Info: 2012-2013 Hartford Wolf Pack/Greenville Road Warriors Thread (AHL, ECHL) *Part III*

[RangerBoy]

On my phone, so I can't see the game by game stats, but I believe he has 4 goals in 3 games, no?

3 power play goals.

 

[Kreider Typical]

@beacon

if nobody returns to the lineup, do you think that kreider has played well enough to get another call-up yet? torts did not seem happy with the 4th line at all. does kreider get the call now or get another few weeks down there to make sure it sunk in(and not have him go back down after 1 game)

 

[Mikos87]

Kreider should be told the following:

1. In your own zone, just skate up, nobody will come at you given your size and speed.

2. In the middle zone, as soon as you face an opponent, dump the puck and go chase it. You'll probably get there first. Even if you arrive there at the same time as the defender, chances are that you are bigger and stronger, so you'll win the board battle.

3. Once your team gets the puck in the opponent's third, go park near the net. You will get a ton of goals from there. You can become a 40 goal scorer there.

4. If you try to stickhandle, McIlrath will be told you cheap-shoted someone on the team, and you don't want him thinking that. Stop stickhandling, you will be a bottom-6 scrub if you keep doing this.

QFT on 1,2, and 3.

But I think as far as stick handling part (he's no Rick Nash), it will come in time, right now he needs to keep it simple, but I do think he has it in him to do that, and not turn the puck over. He needs to learn how to play mistake free hockey before trying to impose his dangles on defenders.

 

[xander]

Kreider should be told the following:

1. In your own zone, just skate up, nobody will come at you given your size and speed.

2. In the middle zone, as soon as you face an opponent, dump the puck and go chase it. You'll probably get there first. Even if you arrive there at the same time as the defender, chances are that you are bigger and stronger, so you'll win the board battle.

3. Once your team gets the puck in the opponent's third, go park near the net. You will get a ton of goals from there. You can become a 40 goal scorer there.

4. If you try to stickhandle, McIlrath will be told you cheap-shoted someone on the team, and you don't want him thinking that. Stop stickhandling, you will be a bottom-6 scrub if you keep doing this.

Seconded. If he puts it all together, he's going to be a very good player, but he will be one of those guys who really excels in a few areas and really needs to keep it simple everywhere else. He's not a drink stirrer, he's not going to rush the puck and create. He has unteachable abilities that he needs to maximize by putting himself in the right position to let his physical gifts overmatch smaller or or slower opponents. If he gets in hard on the forecheck and plants himself in front of the net he's going to create havoc for defenders and put rebounds and tips in the net (and every once and a while a teammate will find him with space in the slot and he will pick a corner). If he tries to carry the puck or in anyway directly create offense, he won't make it. He has some of the strangest hands I've ever seen; they are elite in the fraction of a second it takes to receive a puck and shoot it, and mediocre after that.

 

[JCrusher*]

QFT on 1,2, and 3.

But I think as far as stick handling part (he's no Rick Nash), it will come in time, right now he needs to keep it simple, but I do think he has it in him to do that, and not turn the puck over. He needs to learn how to play mistake free hockey before trying to impose his dangles on defenders.

Look Im glad people have high expectations for Kreider. However you cant ask him to play 100% mistake free hockey. The truth is even the great nhl players make a few mistakes during the game. Rick nash is an elite type player but even he makes mistakes sometimes.

 

[Beacon]

@beacon

if nobody returns to the lineup, do you think that kreider has played well enough to get another call-up yet? torts did not seem happy with the 4th line at all. does kreider get the call now or get another few weeks down there to make sure it sunk in(and not have him go back down after 1 game)

I would never say that about 3 games because that can be just a lucky streak, but he's done what I thought he should in using his speed and size to forecheck and park in front of the crease. If he sticks with it, he'll be here before April. These were his best 3 games of the season in either the AHL or the NHL.

QFT on 1,2, and 3.

But I think as far as stick handling part (he's no Rick Nash), it will come in time, right now he needs to keep it simple, but I do think he has it in him to do that, and not turn the puck over. He needs to learn how to play mistake free hockey before trying to impose his dangles on defenders.

He should practice stickhandling in practice, not during games as both Hartford and the Rangers are struggling to make the playoffs, sitting in the 8 spot. He needs to nail down how to use his strengths (size, speed, shot) before he branches out to developing other skills. If he scores 30-40 goals from 2 feet out of the crease every season and never stickhandles the puck in his career, I don't think anyone will complain. I really think that given his size and shot (and ability to cause turnovers using his speed), he can be a 30+ goal scorer if he uses his skills properly. But his play so far this season, up until the last 3 games, has been downright dumb.

Look Im glad people have high expectations for Kreider. However you cant ask him to play 100% mistake free hockey. The truth is even the great nhl players make a few mistakes during the game. Rick nash is an elite type player but even he makes mistakes sometimes.

That's fine. He made a couple of mistakes yesterday and I still gave him #1 star of the game. If he plays "Kreider hockey" and makes a couple of mistakes, no problem. If he pretends to be Kovalev, then the coaching staff needs to punish him.

 

[JCrusher*]

I would never say that about 3 games because that can be just a lucky streak, but he's done what I thought he should in using his speed and size to forecheck and park in front of the crease. If he sticks with it, he'll be here before April. These were his best 3 games of the season in either the AHL or the NHL.




He should practice stickhandling in practice, not during games as both Hartford and the Rangers are struggling to make the playoffs, sitting in the 8 spot. He needs to nail down how to use his strengths (size, speed, shot) before he branches out to developing other skills. If he scores 30-40 goals from 2 feet out of the crease every season and never stickhandles the puck in his career, I don't think anyone will complain. I really think that given his size and shot (and ability to cause turnovers using his speed), he can be a 30+ goal scorer if he uses his skills properly. But his play so far this season, up until the last 3 games, has been downright dumb.




That's fine. He made a couple of mistakes yesterday and I still gave him #1 star of the game. If he plays "Kreider hockey" and makes a couple of mistakes, no problem. If he pretends to be Kovalev, then the coaching staff needs to punish him.

I agree. Personally i think injuries were a big part of it. I had the same injury as Kreider(bone chip injury in my right ankle). I played point guard and was quick but that injury really slowed me down for 2 months. It looks like kreider is healthy so hopefully he continues to score the next few games so he can be back by the end of the month

 

[Beacon]

I dont think it's injuries. He's played a different game since going down if he parks near the net, he will be incredibly useful to the team. He can score the same goals on NHL goalies.

He would be at much more effective if we had a slap shot specialist on the blue line. Having Thomas on the PP blue line is stretching the opposition, which cant concentrate on either the crease or the blue line.

If Thomas makes our team, he will madge the PP much better. His slapper is the best one in the organization by far.

 

[Ail]

I dont think it's injuries. He' played a different game since going down if he parks near the net, he will be incredibly useful to the team. He can score the same goals on NHL goalies.

He would be at much more effective if we had a slap shot specialist on the blue line. Having Thomas on the PP blue line is stretching the opposition, which cant concentrate on either the crease or the blue line.

If Thomas makes our team, he will madge the PP much better. His slapper is the best one in the organization by far.

Slappers and one-timers are illegal in NHL power plays as far as the Rangers are concerned.

 

[Pizza]

Kreider should be told the following:

1. In your own zone, just skate up, nobody will come at you given your size and speed.

2. In the middle zone, as soon as you face an opponent, dump the puck and go chase it. You'll probably get there first. Even if you arrive there at the same time as the defender, chances are that you are bigger and stronger, so you'll win the board battle.

3. Once your team gets the puck in the opponent's third, go park near the net. You will get a ton of goals from there. You can become a 40 goal scorer there.

4. If you try to stickhandle, McIlrath will be told you cheap-shoted someone on the team, and you don't want him thinking that. Stop stickhandling, you will be a bottom-6 scrub if you keep doing this.

Solid Beacon. Very solid.

 

[Emptyvoid]

Beacon, or anyone else that watches the whale alot, what is your opinion of Kreider's hockey sense/intelligence?

Also, what do you think is the upside of Kreider and CT?

 

[Beacon]

Beacon, or anyone else that watches the whale alot, what is your opinion of Kreider's hockey sense/intelligence?

Also, what do you think is the upside of Kreider and CT?

I don't like his hockey sense. If he had good hockey sense, he'd have scored 30 goals this year.

 

[JCrusher*]

I don't like his hockey sense. If he had good hockey sense, he'd have scored 30 goals this year.

First of all asking 30 goals in a 48 game year for a rookie is a lot to ask for. Hell if Nash scores 20 goals i would consider that a very good year and he is already and established star. Now when it comes to Kreider's hockey sense i dont buy that he has bad hockey sense. Now i admit he has a lot to learn but he is only 21 years old so thats pretty normal. Look the kid had a rough start it happens sometimes. The kid is gonna be a stud IMO. I think this trip to the AHL has really helped him discover his game and when he comes back up hopefully soon he will be a big player for us. people might not want to admit it but when Kreider is on his game like he has been lately he will make the Rangers an even more dangerous team

 

[Beacon]

First of all asking 30 goals in a 48 game year for a rookie is a lot to ask for.

I am not asking him to score 30 goals in his first season. Read what I wrote and don't put words in my mouth.

I stated a simple fact that if he had a good hockey sense, he'd be a 30 goal scorer right now. Given his speed, shot and shot, that's something I'm very confident in. But the problem is that he stickhandles where he shouldn't and otherwise doesn't do the right thing when it comes to using his brain.

If you take Stepan's brain and Kreider's size/speed/shot, you get a 30 goal scorer over 82 games.

 

[JCrusher*]

I am not asking him to score 30 goals in his first season. Read what I wrote and don't put words in my mouth.

I stated a simple fact that if he had a good hockey sense, he'd be a 30 goal scorer right now. Given his speed, shot and shot, that's something I'm very confident in. But the problem is that he stickhandles where he shouldn't and otherwise doesn't do the right thing when it comes to using his brain.

If you take Stepan's brain and Kreider's size/speed/shot, you get a 30 goal scorer.

First of all Beacon relax. I never put words in your mouth. Please dont jump to conclusions especially when i trying to be resepectful. I was talking hypothetical. I meant IF somebody asked him to score 30 goals. im not saying you did

 

[Drewbackatu*]

I am not asking him to score 30 goals in his first season. Read what I wrote and don't put words in my mouth.

I stated a simple fact that if he had a good hockey sense, he'd be a 30 goal scorer right now. Given his speed, shot and shot, that's something I'm very confident in. But the problem is that he stickhandles where he shouldn't and otherwise doesn't do the right thing when it comes to using his brain.

If you take Stepan's brain and Kreider's size/speed/shot, you get a 30 goal scorer over 82 games.

A friend of mine coached hockey up in Vermont a few years back and he told me then that Kreider is used to always getting by on his size and speed and that he didn't have the greatest hockey sense!
Sounds like a pretty fair assessment thus far so it's up to Kreider to work harder and smarter and make us all believe.

 

[haohmaru]

The bad thing is that you can't teach hockey sense. You either have it or you don't.

 

[Beacon]

I'm watching the game late again.

Talbot is starting again. I don't understand why it's important to work him to death. Mission did well last time and should've gotten the start to let Talbot rest.

And almost immediately, Bingo scores just 56 seconds into it. It was already the third shot on Talbot.

Good rush and shot by Thomas.

Ferreiro takes a penalty for interference.

Talbot getting a lot of work in the first half a period. Looks tired.

Mash got into a fight. Good move to try to change the pace of the game. They hugged, then Mash landed several body blows, then tackled Bingo.

Interference on Carroll. 4 on 3.

Thomas playing well.

Kramer wanted to fight Yogan for driving into the crease, and then realized that he'll have to fight McIlrath instead because he jumped in. Result: no fight.

You know, I really like Yogan's game. I wasn't a big fan of his before this season, but the more I watch him, the more I like him.

Mash, Pyett and Vernace with good games so far.

Kreider is clearly trying not to stickhandle, which I like. But more dump ins and fewer passes. Get the puck closer to the net. His speed should allow him to get there quickly and his size to win the board fight.

Noob and Gazley with coincidental minors. 4 on 4.

END OF ONE

 

[surlysailor]

I'm watching the game late again.

You know, I really like Yogan's game. I wasn't a big fan of his before this season, but the more I watch him, the more I like him.

END OF ONE

I don't know why, but I always liked him, thought he was a great boom/bust prospect.


side note: If Boyle is scratched for the Rangers why not call up Ferreio? He's got to be better then Bickel.

 

[Kwayry]

I don't know why, but I always liked him, thought he was a great boom/bust prospect.


side note: If Boyle is scratched for the Rangers why not call up Ferreio? He's got to be better then Bickel.

Why not call up Yogan? Seems like a smart player with some skills

 

[JohnC]

You two above me are clearly overlooking the factor that is Torts Logic

 

[Beacon]

SECOND PERIOD

Collins with a good shot from the blue line.

Kreider used his speed to create a 3 on 2, shot the puck and created a good opportunity.

Much better start to the period than the poor first they had.

Kreider created three scoring opportunities in the first few minutes of the period. He's playing the kind of hockey I have advocated he needs to play, and it's working out well.

Collins playing well.

Big save by Talbot on a deflected slap shot.

Parlett with a turnover and has been invisible offensively tonight, which is his bread and butter.

Noob created a couple scoring chances. Vernace with a good play on this shift too.

Whale keeps icing it.

Most of the forwards are totally useless tonight.

Couple of big saves by Talbot.

Jean sighting! I just realized that he's playing and it's the middle of the second. He didn't do anything, I just saw #7 leisurely skating.

Hard, quick snapshot by McIlrath from the blue line.

Kreider is finally looking like a top prospect.

McIlrath's balance problems on display as he fell down trying to turn while skating backwards. Vernace forced to take a penalty.

Another penalty on the Whale, with Parlett called from cross-checking. 1:03 of 5 on 3 hockey now.

Noob and Collins doing well on the PK.

It's not fair to Talbot that he has to start that many games, face that many shots and deal with that many PKs. Talk about overworked and underpaid.

END OF TWO

 

[Beacon]

THIRD PERIOD

Talbot is like a wall out there. There's nothing to shoot at.

The Whale takes an offensive penalty. They figured Talbot didn't face a scoring chance in 15 seconds, so naturally they had to screw with him and take a penalty.

Every time Kreider stickhandles, it's a turnover. Every time he drives to the net without the puck, it's a scoring chance. He's done both tonight.

McIlrath with a big hit, but fell down.

Klassen fanned on a pass, which was intercepted by Bingo a few yards away from the net with no defense except Talbot, who made yet another big save.

Another giveaway just feet away from Talbot.

Yogan creating opportunities. I don't know what he did to get sent down to the ECHL to start the season. Maybe Kenny G was trying to keep him away from his daughter, I don't know, but he certainly doesn't look like a guy who was in the ECHL just months ago.

Talbot stops a breakaway reminiscent of the Richter save on the Bure penalty shot, but on the other side.

Collins with his best game among those I've seen.

Sens score on a shot from the hash marks. Could've stopped that shot, but then he made may be tired by now.

Empty net goal.

McIlrath fights Kramer, a fight that has been brewing the whole game. He won the fight big, landing 7-8 punches in a row. The fight looked like a bully picking on a dork, even though Kramer is a tough guy. Total domination.

END OF THE GAME

 

[Beacon]

PLAYERS OF THE GAME

1. Talbot - great performance, kept the team in the team even as they allowed all types of scoring chances and fast breaks against him. They allowed a whopping 37 shots against him despite trailing for over 59 minutes, so they really should've been in the opponent's end of the ice much more.

2. Collins - good in both ends of the ice.

3. Yogan - created chances with his speed and ability to protect the puck with his big body.

Honorable Mention: Kreider - good when he's not stickhandling. Created several chances.

Bad: Most of the forwards. A lot of effort without any real offense created.

 

[Kwayry]

Who is better Yogan or Mashinter?