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OT: 2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part X: Is There Any Hope? Edition

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Bleed Ranger Blue said:
65M cap.

Let the NHL have the contract limits. How many people are you really fighting for with 7+ year deals?

Better to counter with a cap increase, then drop the puck.
Click to expand...

I agree here. The league compromised on variance and on contract years. I feel like the players have conceded the most but this isn't the time or the issues to dig in on. Get the cap set for next season.

I can't for the life of me understand why NBA transition rules were ignored. It was a model for us until that point.
 
RangerBoy said:
The NHL is offering $70.2M with no compliance buyouts. Then its $60M with compliance buyouts.
Make it $64.3M for two years with compliance buyouts for 13 and 13-14.
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Lots of teams would get into trouble here and be over the cap immediately - incl us :

  1. Boston Bruins - $68,867,976 - 23 contracts (Savard LTIR ?)
  2. Minnesota Wild - $68,848,867 - 23 contracts
  3. Vancouver Canucks - $67,768,333 - 23 contracts
  4. Chicago Blackhawks with Olesz - $67,033,334 - 25 contracts
  5. Calgary Flames - $66,668,332 - 23 contracts
  6. Philadelphia Flyers - $66,643,373 - 23 contracts (Pronger LTIR?)
  7. San Jose Sharks - $65,241,667 - 21 contracts
  8. New York Rangers (with Wade Redden) - $64,533,334 - 23 contracts (Sauer on LTIR but del Zotto still unsigned)
  9. Buffalo Sabres $64,354,523 - 24 contracts
  10. Montreal Canadians - $63,897,976 - 23 contracts (PK Subban still unsigned)
  11. Toronto Maple Leafs - $63,485,833 - 22 contracts (Cody Fransson still unsigned)

I do not believe it is doable
Your previous idea of $70,2M in 2013 and $64,4 - $65M 2013/2014 is going to be necessary imo.
Basically the NBA model. Batterman should know that one...
Time will tell
 
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What do they talk about in these internal meetings? I imagine it goes something like this:

Fehr: So guys. What do you think about their new proposal?
Players: I think it's pretty good.
Fehr: But I can get you MOAR! If you sit out longer.
Players: OK.
Fehr:...So, seen any good movies lately?
 
The internal meetings are sitting around the office. They've had the offer since Thursday. Most of the stuff has already been covered. From: @DarrenDreger
Sent: Dec 31, 2012 10:25a

PA isn't delaying meeting. Still working on counter and also awaiting arrival of players who will attend negotiating sessions.

sent via Twitter for BlackBerry®
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/285768551040679936
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The players want a CBA with an opt out after 7 years. They offered 8 with an opt out after 6 in 3 weeks ago. NHL offered 10 and 8. 9 and 7? PA wants 7 or 8 in contract limits. They offered 8. NHL is at 6 and 7. 6 or 7. From: @rangersreport
Sent: Dec 31, 2012 10:26a

RT @garylawless: NHL Players Association readies counter offer - via @winnipegnews http://t.co/lVRiGDjl via @sharethis

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/rangersreport/status/285768944667738112
 
can someone explain to me why the players want to go through this same **** every 6 or so years? Why wouldn't you want a 10 year agreement if you like the deal?
 
RangerBoy said:
The players want a CBA with an opt out after 7 years. They offered 8 with an opt out after 6 in 3 weeks ago. NHL offered 10 and 8. 9 and 7? PA wants 7 or 8 in contract limits. They offered 8. NHL is at 6 and 7. 6 or 7. From: @rangersreport
Sent: Dec 31, 2012 10:26a

RT @garylawless: NHL Players Association readies counter offer - via @winnipegnews http://t.co/lVRiGDjl via @sharethis

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/rangersreport/status/285768944667738112
Click to expand...

COMPROMISE?
  • 9/7 on new CBAs length
  • 6/8 on max contract lengths
  • 10% max annual contract variance
  • Make whole $300M
  • $70,2 (2013)/$64,8 M (2013/2014) cap roof. Cap floor from 2013/2014 taken from NHLs proposal
  • Compliance buyouts as per NHLs offer both before this year or before next year starts (10 day periods)
  • 50/50 split of HRR (this formula also decides cap from 2014/2015 based on previous years fallout + mutually decided prognosis formula - escrow finalizes the actual salary anyways)
  • HRR according to previous formula
  • Salaries at or above league minimum count against cap regardless of where players are (after 2nd compliance buyout period)
  • No change to rules on free agency
  • Re entry waivers gone
  • Realignment according to NHLs wishes

Elliotte Friedman writes at CBC, that the players aren’t happy with how the league handled the pension in their latest offer.
Click to expand...
Not sure what is meant here

Friedman says that the biggest issue is going to be escrow and the owners see any cap on escrow as a “major concession.”
Click to expand...
Cap on escrow ?? Something like 5-10% - similar to Battermans NBA deal?

Get er done!

Oh yeah, Bettman, Daley & The Fehrs all mutually agree to immediately resign and this ******* lawfirm Proskauer Rose never as much as whispers hockey again in their client portfolio ever
 
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Lundsanity30 said:
can someone explain to me why the players want to go through this same **** every 6 or so years? Why wouldn't you want a 10 year agreement if you like the deal?
Click to expand...

This is only my opinion on it, so please don't bash it.

The NFL and NBA had their deals last year. They were somewhere between 8 and 10 years. That means they will expire around 2020.

I don't think the NHLPA wants to fall into the same problem they are in now. Basically, the NBA and NFL are at 50/50 now. Those unions are not that strong, meaning they are not baseball.

If the NHL agreement ends before the NBA and NFL agreements and then NHL is doing well 6-7 years from now, it gives more power to the players.

If the NBA and NFL agreements end before the NHL and the NBA and NFL agree to 45% for players and 55% for owners, that sets a precedent in sports. Then the NHL owners can come in and say "look what the NBA and NFL got...NHL should be the same way".

Again, this is just my opinion. Would the NHL and NHLPA be headed towards 50/50 if the NBA and NFL weren't already there? Maybe...but then again, maybe not.
 
steviek3b said:
This is only my opinion on it, so please don't bash it.

The NFL and NBA had their deals last year. They were somewhere between 8 and 10 years. That means they will expire around 2020.

I don't think the NHLPA wants to fall into the same problem they are in now. Basically, the NBA and NFL are at 50/50 now. Those unions are not that strong, meaning they are not baseball.

If the NHL agreement ends before the NBA and NFL agreements and then NHL is doing well 6-7 years from now, it gives more power to the players.

If the NBA and NFL agreements end before the NHL and the NBA and NFL agree to 45% for players and 55% for owners, that sets a precedent in sports. Then the NHL owners can come in and say "look what the NBA and NFL got...NHL should be the same way".

Again, this is just my opinion. Would the NHL and NHLPA be headed towards 50/50 if the NBA and NFL weren't already there? Maybe...but then again, maybe not.
Click to expand...

thats a really good way at looking at things. why have your CBA expire after the industry standard could be re-set again?
 
steviek3b said:
This is only my opinion on it, so please don't bash it.

The NFL and NBA had their deals last year. They were somewhere between 8 and 10 years. That means they will expire around 2020.

I don't think the NHLPA wants to fall into the same problem they are in now. Basically, the NBA and NFL are at 50/50 now. Those unions are not that strong, meaning they are not baseball.

If the NHL agreement ends before the NBA and NFL agreements and then NHL is doing well 6-7 years from now, it gives more power to the players.

If the NBA and NFL agreements end before the NHL and the NBA and NFL agree to 45% for players and 55% for owners, that sets a precedent in sports. Then the NHL owners can come in and say "look what the NBA and NFL got...NHL should be the same way".

Again, this is just my opinion. Would the NHL and NHLPA be headed towards 50/50 if the NBA and NFL weren't already there? Maybe...but then again, maybe not.
Click to expand...

Good point. Very likely close to the NHLPAs way of "reasoning".
 
http://www.truehockey.com/articles/NHL-Tells-NHLPA-Theres-Time-To-Save-a-50-Plus-Game-Season

The $60million cap number in 2013-2014 is “reality†according to one high ranking NHL source. “The sooner we get to reality the betterâ€.
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Hardly a realistic "reality"
These guys :facepalm:


It’s expected the NHLPA asks for the 2013-2014 salary cap be increased from $60 million to the somewhere in the range of $67.25 million according to sources. While a $60 million cap number might be hard to swallow for the player’s, they might not be too happy with a higher number either. League sources tell me a $67.25 million cap ceiling next season would mean an escrow of between 15-20%.
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$64,5M to $65M !
 
How is a 60 M cap "reality" when half the teams already have that much committed for 13-14 season with players left to sign?
 
It's not really, it's just more posturing. You would wish that both sides would shut the **** up by this point but I guess not
 
At this stage i'm willing to accept a 60m cap next year if we get a season, because I truly believe the Ranger's chances are that good.
 
Antithesis said:
At this stage i'm willing to accept a 60m cap next year if we get a season, because I truly believe the Ranger's chances are that good.
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I'm sure the Rangers would be good even with a 60M cap (even losing Gaborik if need be), but other teams would be screwed.
 
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