OT: 2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part X: Is There Any Hope? Edition

[Whiplash27]

Anchorage gets a new team ( their 1st pro team in Alaska)

Alaska is beautiful and all and as a market it could possibly work, but for travel it would be a mess and honestly, what player would want to play there? Especially in the winter?

 

[RangerBoy]

From: @BizballMaury
Sent: Dec 27, 2012 8:32a

Commissioners by age: Selig (78), Stern (70), Goodell (53), Bettman (12)

sent via Twitter for iPhone
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/BizballMaury/status/284290579582562304

 

[broadwayblue]

Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun
There has been contact between NHL/NHLPA over past few days but still no talks scheduled at this point...

https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...81570585903104

Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
At this time,the NHLPA has still not received any indication as to whether the NHL is interested in meeting. #TSN

https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/status/284082648245219328

Why bother scheduling talks when there's still 9 days left until the entire season is cancelled.

 

[egelband]

these idiots have had seven-plus years to get a new deal done. why hurry now? they roll like paulie from goodfellas...they don't move for anyone.

 

[silverfish]

Here's a great article written by a lawyer:

http://hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1415

Some snips:

Given the NHLPA's hesitation to authorize a disclaimer of interest, the NHL launched a preemptive strike by filing a declaratory judgment complaint in the Southern District of New York. The essence of the NHL's Declaratory Judgment Action is its contentions that a disclaimer of interest was not valid, the lockout was a legitimate and well-recognized means of negotiating a collective bargaining agreement, the NHL is not subject to Antitrust laws, and that if the disclaimer of interest were to be held valid, all NHL player contracts are also immediately voided.

If the case goes to conclusion, I believe Judge Engelmayer will rule that the lockout will no longer be valid if the NHLPA commits to having its members refrain from union representation for a year. I also predict Judge Engelmayer will rule that all pending contracts are valid and enforceable. I expect him to reason that the owners made a business calculation in entering the contracts when they realized the new CBA negotiations could be unsuccessful, and that in the absence of a specific exclusion, the owners are bound by the terms of the contracts.

Both sides are taking an enormous risk—a risk vastly beyond the differences that separate them. Either side's last best offer, while not perfect, was well within the range of reason and was far superior to the extensive loss of revenue and brand destruction that has occurred throughout the lockout and since these last best offers. Consequently, there is no logical explanation for the conduct of either side. As such, Judge Engelmayer is likely to see both sides as being unreasonable and stubborn. It has been my experience that when judges—and especially Federal Judges—find both sides to be intransigent, they bring to bear the full majesty of their judicial powers.

Just get back to the negotiating, boys.

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

I'm saying this right now:

I WILL NOT BE BACK if Gary Bettman is in ANY WAY affiliated with this league. This will be my last post until he is gone.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me! This is the 3rd time he's fooled us all. F the players, also. The trickle-down effect on real people is sickening.

I'm done. I don't give a crap how good the Rangers are, or how close they are to a cup. This sport and it's leadership have disgusted me, just like our joke of a government disgusts me.

Goodbye HF Boards....it's been fun.

See you when Bettman is gone.

 

[silverfish]

I'm saying this right now:

I WILL NOT BE BACK if Gary Bettman is in ANY WAY affiliated with this league. This will be my last post until he is gone.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me! This is the 3rd time he's fooled us all. F the players, also. The trickle-down effect on real people is sickening.

I'm done. I don't give a crap how good the Rangers are, or how close they are to a cup. This sport and it's leadership have disgusted me, just like our joke of a government disgusts me.

Goodbye HF Boards....it's been fun.

See you when Bettman is gone.

Fitting username

I agree in a sense. It would be great to see Bettman and Fehr put aside their differences, settle this dispute for the good of the game, and when it's all over get as far away as ****ing possible from the game of hockey.

In reality? Bettman's job security is as cushy as Sathers. So I'm not really going to expect Bettman to leave that position.

 

[Nanaki]

I'm saying this right now:

I WILL NOT BE BACK if Gary Bettman is in ANY WAY affiliated with this league. This will be my last post until he is gone.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me! This is the 3rd time he's fooled us all. F the players, also. The trickle-down effect on real people is sickening.

I'm done. I don't give a crap how good the Rangers are, or how close they are to a cup. This sport and it's leadership have disgusted me, just like our joke of a government disgusts me.

Goodbye HF Boards....it's been fun.

See you when Bettman is gone.

I think you need to take a step back from this process man. I'm not entirely sure but I think it's starting to get to you.

 

[The Gloaming]

If you're not following the NHL until Bettman is gone...

How will you know when Bettman is gone?

 

[trueblue9441]

I'm saying this right now:

I WILL NOT BE BACK if Gary Bettman is in ANY WAY affiliated with this league. This will be my last post until he is gone.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me! This is the 3rd time he's fooled us all. F the players, also. The trickle-down effect on real people is sickening.

I'm done. I don't give a crap how good the Rangers are, or how close they are to a cup. This sport and it's leadership have disgusted me, just like our joke of a government disgusts me.

Goodbye HF Boards....it's been fun.

See you when Bettman is gone.

see ya later then man, because bettman has no reason to get fired

 

[Maineice11]

see ya later then man, because bettman has no reason to get fired

I don't agree, I think he is to blame, he was given a lot of power in 2002 enough where he only needed 8 owners and himself to ensue a lockout, and now is also the owner of the coyotes so he only needs 7 owners behind him. None of us here truly know how much power he does have and if he is really calling the shots or the owners are, but with the amount of power he has to fine any owner for speaking out to the media during lockouts just doesn't seem right. Dolan wants him gone and I am sure others do too. I do believe that none of us know and all we can go by is what we think/feel. The facts in this paragraph can be found in earlier posts and articles in these multiple lockout threads.

Even if Bettman is not to blame for it, if a season is lost, I believe bettman is gone because the owners need to have a scapegoat, they can fire bettman put the blame on him to try to keep sponsors or show they are changing. That is my opinion.

 

[Leetch3]

I don't agree, I think he is to blame, he was given a lot of power in 2002 enough where he only needed 8 owners and himself to ensue a lockout, and now is also the owner of the coyotes so he only needs 7 owners behind him. None of us here truly know how much power he does have and if he is really calling the shots or the owners are, but with the amount of power he has to fine any owner for speaking out to the media during lockouts just doesn't seem right. Dolan wants him gone and I am sure others do too. I do believe that none of us know and all we can go by is what we think/feel. The facts in this paragraph can be found in earlier posts and articles in these multiple lockout threads.

Even if Bettman is not to blame for it, if a season is lost, I believe bettman is gone because the owners need to have a scapegoat, they can fire bettman put the blame on him to try to keep sponsors or show they are changing. That is my opinion.

even if he is 100% to blame. league revenue was $400k when he took over and its now $3.4 billion. he'll get fired when fans stop coming back and the revenue plummets...but fans will come back and revenue will continue to go up and bettman will get a raise and extension

 

[NYRKING30]

I don't agree, I think he is to blame, he was given a lot of power in 2002 enough where he only needed 8 owners and himself to ensue a lockout, and now is also the owner of the coyotes so he only needs 7 owners behind him. None of us here truly know how much power he does have and if he is really calling the shots or the owners are, but with the amount of power he has to fine any owner for speaking out to the media during lockouts just doesn't seem right. Dolan wants him gone and I am sure others do too. I do believe that none of us know and all we can go by is what we think/feel. The facts in this paragraph can be found in earlier posts and articles in these multiple lockout threads.

Even if Bettman is not to blame for it, if a season is lost, I believe bettman is gone because the owners need to have a scapegoat, they can fire bettman put the blame on him to try to keep sponsors or show they are changing. That is my opinion.

Phoenix doesn't get a vote since the NHL runs that franchise. GB will still need 8 owners to vote yes/no.

 

[NYRKING30]

even if he is 100% to blame. league revenue was $400k when he took over and its now $3.4 billion. he'll get fired when fans stop coming back and the revenue plummets...but fans will come back and revenue will continue to go up and bettman will get a raise and extension

exactly he took a 400 million dollar sport to a 3.4 billion buisness, added franches(better or for worse),raised franchise values. If it is a 10 year CBA I do think this is his last negotiation as Commissioner. I wouldn't mind Daly next in mind he seems reasonable. Most progress we got most times was when Bill and Steve talked.

 

[RangerBoy]

No more lawyers running the NHL. Daly is another lawyer.

These guys are acting like the NHL is Hostess Brands and they can shut down the company. Sell off the assets. Management refused to meet the union's demands so they pulled the plug on the entire company.

By the way. I still think we will play. 48 games starting jan 19th.

https://twitter.com/DougMaclean/status/284422143712841728

Yes I fully expect a deal to be completed sometime around January 10th with a 48 game season beginning around January 20th. Who didn’t see a deadline deal happening? It became obvious several weeks ago neither side would agree to a deal as long as there was time left on the clock. All you have to do is follow the steps of the recent NFL and NBA labor disputes to understand how this would eventually play out.

My sources tell me a new CBA needs to be ratified right around January 10th with games being players around the 20th. This allows time to get players over from Europe, sign players if necessary, and have somewhat of a training camp.

http://www.truehockey.com/articles/New-Years-Solution-ComingPlus-What-the-Owners-Have-Given-NHLPA

The deal needs to be put on paper and have the lawyers lawyer it up. That will need to take place before camps open. 10 day training camp. For a season to begin on January 19 or 20,a CBA needs to be done by next weekend which is January 4-5. It usually takes longer to put it on paper. The NHL doesn't have that kind of time. 1 or 2 days for the players to vote.

 

[Fitzy]

If this were to happen, players would be in amusingly different levels of conditioning. Would make for some strange games early in the season.

 

[vladmyir111]

The deal needs to be put on paper and have the lawyers lawyer it up. That will need to take place before camps open. 10 day training camp. For a season to begin on January 19 or 20,a CBA needs to be done by next weekend which is January 4-5. It usually takes longer to put it on paper. The NHL doesn't have that kind of time. 1 or 2 days for the players to vote.

A deal will never be fully put on paper and signed before they start training camp. It will be agreed to in principle and voted on by the players and then eventually down the line the exact legalese is worked out. So don't worry about needing an extra week just for a statement to be put on magical lawyer paper.

 

[Chaels Arms]

If this were to happen, players would be in amusingly different levels of conditioning. Would make for some strange games early in the season.

Lots of injuries too.

 

[trueblue9441]

I don't agree, I think he is to blame, he was given a lot of power in 2002 enough where he only needed 8 owners and himself to ensue a lockout, and now is also the owner of the coyotes so he only needs 7 owners behind him. None of us here truly know how much power he does have and if he is really calling the shots or the owners are, but with the amount of power he has to fine any owner for speaking out to the media during lockouts just doesn't seem right. Dolan wants him gone and I am sure others do too. I do believe that none of us know and all we can go by is what we think/feel. The facts in this paragraph can be found in earlier posts and articles in these multiple lockout threads.

Even if Bettman is not to blame for it, if a season is lost, I believe bettman is gone because the owners need to have a scapegoat, they can fire bettman put the blame on him to try to keep sponsors or show they are changing. That is my opinion.

guess who signed off on those changes about how many teams can veto a deal? the board of governors. the board of governors will decide whether he stays or goes. there's no reason for him to be fired if I'm on the board of governors. he's just carrying out their plans.

all of those changes you outlined in that paragraph have to get approved by someone to be put into place don't they? you really think gary bettman was the sole person to put those into place?

whether you like it or not, gary bettman is here to stay

 

[RMcDonagh]

No more lawyers running the NHL. Daly is another lawyer.

These guys are acting like the NHL is Hostess Brands and they can shut down the company. Sell off the assets. Management refused to meet the union's demands so they pulled the plug on the entire company.



https://twitter.com/DougMaclean/status/284422143712841728







http://www.truehockey.com/articles/New-Years-Solution-ComingPlus-What-the-Owners-Have-Given-NHLPA

The deal needs to be put on paper and have the lawyers lawyer it up. That will need to take place before camps open. 10 day training camp. For a season to begin on January 19 or 20,a CBA needs to be done by next weekend which is January 4-5. It usually takes longer to put it on paper. The NHL doesn't have that kind of time. 1 or 2 days for the players to vote.

As it still stands now after the last few pieces of ******** regarding these talks... status quo: believe it when I see it.

No more 'sources' can get me hopped up on a season. I don't care if it's Bettman or Fehr's cousin.

 

[Made Dan]

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: An NHL player says the NHL made a new offer to the NHLPA on Thursday, one which moved on contract term limits, buyouts and variance...

 

[Vitto79]

about time we hear of an offer. Get it done already.....did I read Eklund broke this first? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[azrok22]

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC

New NHL proposal adds one buyout per team...does not count against cap, but does count against HRR. Potentially significant move here.

Thank goodness. Farewell, Wade.

 

[Jabroni]

about time we hear of an offer. Get it done already.....did I read Eklund broke this first? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Yes he did. Bob McKenzie said so.

 

[BBKers]

"The hill we will die on" - my buttocks

• Compliance buyout - check
• Term limit = 6/7 should be doable
• % variance 5% => 10% check
• 10 year deal - gotta sign to that

Time to do this!