20-21 Season Tank Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

[valkynax]

What assets do we have apart from cap space and the pieces already in place?

Are you suggesting we try to land the missing pieces as UFAs?

Loui Eriksson

 

[Canucker]

4 and 5 are unrealistic and imo 5 is just bad management. What’s the rush? There isn’t one. No point in bringing up unready prospects with time left on their ELC’s to play on this mess.

With 4 you could waive Eriksson or Roussel or whatever but I think “playing ball” with them involves working with them. I hope they both aren’t back next year but I don’t think waiving them to the minors helps them play ball.

The first 3 points I agree obviously I’m not selling the top guys for value yet. I think they have a season or two to decide on Bo/JT.

It's not a rush, its about development and evaluation...give them a taste of the NHL, see how they adapt, see if you can envision a role with the team next year...I'm not saying to gift them a full time role for the rest of the year (unless they force you to with good play), I'm saying stop putting Jordie Benn or Travis Hamonic out there regularly and give some of these younger guys a chance to get a sniff of the NHL. Give Rafferty a chance, see if he can do anything at this level with some playing time.

For #4, sure "work with them" if possible, if you can get them to retire and give them a cake coaching/scouting job, by all means...but if they aren't willing to play ball, they can ride the bus in the ECHL next year for all i care.

 

[Rumsfeld]

Lol. We are like the Oilers silly.

Yup, the '84 Oilers

 

[Canucker]

So a generational defender with the best positioning in NHL history who played a hair under 200 and a generational offensive defenseman who was pretty one-dimensional even in his prime.

The point is that true all-situation defensemen need to be a certain size to be effective at both ends of the rink.

Disagree completely...Nick Lidstrom blows that theory right out of the water and you gave the exact reason why....positioning. Smarts and positioning trump body weight/size when defending.

 

[4Twenty]

It's not a rush, its about development and evaluation...give them a taste of the NHL, see how they adapt, see if you can envision a role with the team next year...I'm not saying to gift them a full time role for the rest of the year (unless they force you to with good play), I'm saying stop putting Jordie Benn or Travis Hamonic out there regularly and give some of these younger guys a chance to get a sniff of the NHL. Give Rafferty a chance, see if he can do anything at this level with some playing time.

For #4, sure "work with them" if possible, if you can get them to retire and give them a cake coaching/scouting job, by all means...but if they aren't willing to play ball, they can ride the bus in the ECHL next year for all i care.

I just think for those prospects you listed playing a cohesive season with similar talented peers in the AHL is better development.

The 14 day quarantine kills this benefit imo.


Playing the guys here like macewan, Juolevi, etc should be the priority. I also think if they end up being able to sell expiring deals at the deadline they’ll probably be getting a warm body back.

My dream is Roussel can be moved with retention and Loui trades off getting to 1000 games for going on LTIR next season.

I think you need a new GM period. Soon. And the longer they wait the bigger the impact on the teams future.

 

[I am toxic]

People saying we can’t give the new manager 2-3 years grace period realize that we have to basically rebuild the entire bottom 6 and defense right to even consider the playoffs

There’s solidly 4-5 pieces we need and it’s one more year after this one before we have any semblance of cap space to do anything.

1 year after this for the eriksson/beagle/roussel contracts to come of the books and to add 2-3 pieces

another year to add another 2-3 pieces and suddenly you are in year 3 and that’s assuming pieces here like gaudette; Jake;Juloevi turn out to be successful bottom pairing/bottom 6 guys

Which is why it was so important to have Weisbrod/Benning fired a half decade ago.

And failing that they should have been fired yesterday.

Weisbrod/Benning dug a grand canyon of a hole, and they're still holding the shovel even if they've been told to stop digging.

The sooner we get COMPETENT management, the sooner the team can be extricated from the expialatrocious cluster**** that is the Weisbrod/Benning shitshow.

 

[4Twenty]

Yup, the '84 Oilers

Mirroring the McDavid oilers. Lose in game 7 of 2nd round, end up stuck in the mud for the seasons after as the big tickets get paid.

 

[valkynax]

Which is why it was so important to have Weisbrod/Benning fired a half decade ago.

And failing that they should have been fired yesterday.

Weisbrod/Benning dug a grand canyon of a hole, and they're still holding the shovel even if they've been told to stop digging.

The sooner we get COMPETENT management, the sooner the team can be extricated from the expialatrocious cluster**** that is the Weisbrod/Benning shitshow.

I made a joke about this a little while ago: what if we hired Chiarelli as POHO

Chiarelli, Benning, Weisbrod.

The three wise men.

The holy trinity.

Oh~ yes~...

 

[Rumsfeld]

Disagree completely...Nick Lidstrom blows that theory right out of the water and you gave the exact reason why....positioning. Smarts and positioning trump body weight/size when defending.

Size and strength matter when you're trying to defend the cycle and dig pucks off the boards from Ryan Getzlaf. There are players who are so good positionally that they mostly overcome these shortcomings, but suggesting size and strength aren't very important when defending is basically ignoring 95% of puck battles in the NHL.

 

[Canucker]

I just think for those prospects you listed playing a cohesive season with similar talented peers in the AHL is better development.

The 14 day quarantine kills this benefit imo.


Playing the guys here like macewan, Juolevi, etc should be the priority. I also think if they end up being able to sell expiring deals at the deadline they’ll probably be getting a warm body back.

My dream is Roussel can be moved with retention and Loui trades off getting to 1000 games for going on LTIR next season.

I think you need a new GM period. Soon. And the longer they wait the bigger the impact on the teams future.

The 14 quarantine does throw a stupid wrench into things...and I wish they had given Rathbone a bit more time to get his feet wet at the NHL level before they sent him down...but I agree, I'd be playing a lot of Juolevi, Rafferty and MacEwen.

I support your "dream".

 

[Canucker]

Size and strength matter when you're trying to defend the cycle and dig pucks off the boards from Ryan Getzlaf. There are players who are so good positionally that they mostly overcome these shortcomings, but suggesting size and strength aren't very important when defending is basically ignoring 95% of puck battles in the NHL.

I'm not suggesting its not important or not valuable when defending, I'm saying its not a requirement to be an elite defender in the NHL.

 

[Fatass]

Size and strength matter when you're trying to defend the cycle and dig pucks off the boards from Ryan Getzlaf. There are players who are so good positionally that they mostly overcome these shortcomings, but suggesting size and strength aren't very important when defending is basically ignoring 95% of puck battles in the NHL.

Tanking will guarantee us at worst a top five pick. Is the a larger framed D man likely to be the BPA (when we pick) in the top five?
The game is super fast now, so the guy has to be a very good skater, and be smart. I’m assuming any top five pick would have excellent puck skills. If we are tanking, which is clearly best, we still must select BPA.

 

[I am toxic]

I made a joke about this a little while ago: what if we hired Chiarelli as POHO

Chiarelli, Benning, Weisbrod.

The three wise men.

The holy trinity.

Oh~ yes~...

 

[Rumsfeld]

I'm not suggesting its not important or not valuable when defending, I'm saying its not a requirement to be an elite defender in the NHL.

Fair enough, what I'm saying is that at least a bare minimum of size/strength is required to be an elite defender. Quinn Hughes will never be one, and even little sparkplugs like Krug won't be either. It's a thing.

 

[Dab]

I actually think the team is actually in a decent position for someone new to come in and do a quick retool to turn things around. Unlike when Jim came in and tried to do that.

The dead weight bad contracts encumbers that considerably but chip away at that and start to target the right players and a wholesale teardown can be avoided.

Year 1 will be a write-off for any new GM unless the Aquilini’s are feeling extra-generous with a buyout and burying some money. Seattle will also have to make a mistake by taking one of our overpriced players. That would give a new GM enough room to get creative in year 1.

 

[valkynax]

Dumb, Dumber, and Dumbest.

 

[Canucker]

Fair enough, what I'm saying is that at least a bare minimum of size/strength is required to be an elite defender. Quinn Hughes will never be one, and even little sparkplugs like Krug won't be either. It's a thing.

Yeah, I don't think Hughes will ever be considered "elite" when it comes to his defensive game...but I think he has the ability to make it so he could be considered average/above-average, just through improvements to his defensive reads and positioning.

 

[December5th]

when management is fired its going to be the biggest victory this team has seen 2011.

 

[4Twenty]

Size and strength matter when you're trying to defend the cycle and dig pucks off the boards from Ryan Getzlaf. There are players who are so good positionally that they mostly overcome these shortcomings, but suggesting size and strength aren't very important when defending is basically ignoring 95% of puck battles in the NHL.

This is outdated thinking.

The game is so much less physical even from 10 years ago it’s ridiculous.

I’ve watched Gudbranson lose enough puck battles to know that while size CAN be an advantage, it’s not a precursor to effectiveness.

 

[valkynax]

when management is fired its going to be the biggest victory this team has seen 2011.

I concur.

 

[Rumsfeld]

This is outdated thinking.

The game is so much less physical even from 10 years ago it’s ridiculous.

I’ve watched Gudbranson lose enough puck battles to know that while size CAN be an advantage, it’s not a precursor to effectiveness.

Well I mean yeah, Gudbranson is a lumbering oaf with the fast-twitch reflexes of a hammered sixty year-old.

But even in the admittedly wimpy modern NHL, a down-low defender needs a certain level of reach and strength to consistently win board battles.

 

[4Twenty]

Well I mean yeah, Gudbranson is a lumbering oaf with the fast-twitch reflexes of a hammered sixty year-old.

But even in the admittedly wimpy modern NHL, a down-low defender needs a certain level of reach and strength to consistently win board battles.

Ryan Ellis and Jared Spurgeon have played top pair minutes for years in diminutive bodies.

Did this topic arise from Luke Hughes? He’ll fill out to at least a Tanev frame.

I wouldn’t pass up talent for height/weight.

 

[Lindgren]

On balance, all things considered, I'd take the lollipop guild over the current management group.

 

[Rumsfeld]

Ryan Ellis and Jared Spurgeon have played top pair minutes for years in diminutive bodies.

Did this topic arise from Luke Hughes? He’ll fill out to at least a Tanev frame.

I wouldn’t pass up talent for height/weight.

Neither would I, and I'm not sure if Hughes is more talented than Power or not. I was basically saying that all things being equal I would go with the bigger defender, because we have a huge organizational need for an all-situations stud for the next 10 years.

Ellis and Spurgeon are not those guys. Ellis gets mauled in his own zone on a regular basis, especially when they let everything go in the playoffs.

The guy this franchise has literally never had in 50 years is what I'm shooting for here. Ambitious I know, but if we're going to tank in a defenseman-heavy draft...

 

[rypper]

What assets do we have apart from cap space and the pieces already in place?

Are you suggesting we try to land the missing pieces as UFAs?

I'm suggesting instead of signing trash to too much money, we seek out cost effective free agents to fill holes until we churn the trash off the roster. Every season there are players that go later in free agency who seem to come out of nowhere and play well. Ie Vanek for us a few years ago.

Instead of a GM who blows his wad on name free agents who aren't really that good or well past their prime we find the diamonds in the rough. At least until we can build up a prospect pool to draw from.