GDT: #20 - 11/17/17 | RANGERS @ blue jackets | 7:00 - MSG PLUS, NHLN

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think people think that Vesey is better than Buchnevich because he was a high profile signing and sort of plays an NA style. I really think that ethnicity matters not necessarily from the standpoint of people disliking Russians but having long standing biases towards grinding NA players. And they see that a higher profile player gets most of his few goals around the net and add to that he's American and they think he's better than the skilled Russian. I think hockey for years has been an exercise in machismo where rooting for brawn rather than skill was a way for people to signal how tough and manly you are. Grit and toughness is for real men, skill is for *****es. Some people from older generations still think that way.

Its both.

Our current climate in the USA must make it difficult for someone from Russia. Think whatever you do about the USA's politics and that situation, but it obviously has nothing to do with hockey players, and they suffer from a period in time where there is open hostility towards Russian people in the USA.

I don't think most people base things on nationality, but there are some who do. I've seen a few examples of it from our fan base, one or two on this forum also, so it happens. I think most of us base things on who the best players are. Our best player the last 10 years is from Sweden, best the last five is American, best this season is Swedish, second best is Russian, we had two Canadian defensemen the last 10 years who were two of the team's top performers for many years, our leading goal scorer for many years was Canadian, the team's best forward for many years was Norwegian, we could keep going. The team is diverse, and I think most people don't care about this type of stuff, but there is a bias against non-NA players, especially Russian players. Heck, they even named it the Russian factor.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Its both.

Our current climate in the USA must make it difficult for someone from Russia. Think whatever you do about the USA's politics and that situation, but it obviously has nothing to do with hockey players, and they suffer from a period in time where there is open hostility towards Russian people in the USA.

I don't think most people base things on nationality, but there are some who do. I've seen a few examples of it from our fan base, one or two on this forum also, so it happens. I think most of us base things on who the best players are. Our best player the last 10 years is from Sweden, best the last five is American, best this season is Swedish, second best is Russian, we had two Canadian defensemen the last 10 years who were two of the team's top performers for many years, our leading goal scorer for many years was Canadian, the team's best forward for many years was Norwegian, we could keep going. The team is diverse, and I think most people don't care about this type of stuff, but there is a bias against non-NA players, especially Russian players. Heck, they even named it the Russian factor.

I just think that old biases die hard and it's natural to be defensive of players that share your nationality and preferred playing style.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Did we put up a fight? In post game interviews, Henrik said something about how it was really close. It doesn't feel that way going through the GTD though.

It wasn't close at all after the first period. CBJ dominated the puck, dominated the neutral zone, and the only reason it was 2-0 and not 5-0 was Hank. Bobrovsky did play well, but we did not deserve to win.

 

[Tob]

It wasn't close at all after the first period. CBJ dominated the puck, dominated the neutral zone, and the only reason it was 2-0 and not 5-0 was Hank. Bobrovsky did play well, but we did not deserve to win.

Thank you. The 6 game winning streak is now clearly just a bump. Two lackadaisical games since then. The hole we're in, the very deficient forward group, and poor defensive coaching and average goaltending will not get us anywhere.

The tank for Dahlin is back on. I'm okay with this transition year going south for a higher pick. A new coach, filled in center depth, and a very good defense group next year without Staal and Holden will be very good looking. McDonagh, Skjei, Shattenkirk, ADA can round off a great top 4 next year. Smith, Pionk, Graves, Bereglazov rounding it off will be fantastic too. Just need a good coach.

 

[Ori]

And both Hawks & CBJ were desperate teams though - so our two last games have been very difficult. We only have managed 1 game with a great quality road game vs Tampa, but that was the game of the year consider result & player performances. However we have never been remotely close to maintain that level of play in our 20 games so far this season.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Its both.

Our current climate in the USA must make it difficult for someone from Russia. Think whatever you do about the USA's politics and that situation, but it obviously has nothing to do with hockey players, and they suffer from a period in time where there is open hostility towards Russian people in the USA.

I don't think most people base things on nationality, but there are some who do. I've seen a few examples of it from our fan base, one or two on this forum also, so it happens. I think most of us base things on who the best players are. Our best player the last 10 years is from Sweden, best the last five is American, best this season is Swedish, second best is Russian, we had two Canadian defensemen the last 10 years who were two of the team's top performers for many years, our leading goal scorer for many years was Canadian, the team's best forward for many years was Norwegian, we could keep going. The team is diverse, and I think most people don't care about this type of stuff, but there is a bias against non-NA players, especially Russian players. Heck, they even named it the Russian factor.

Unbeknownst to the new social media era, aside from a short period due to wartime necessity and the Soviets being double crossed, the US and Western world hasn’t exactly been BFF with Russia since just before the turn of the 20th century.

In regard to NHL careers, The label against Russians has for the most part been due to the style they play that isn’t always optimal for the North American style and rinks.

I’ve been asking for 2 years now. What is your deal with Buch? It’s really odd.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

That is a good save %, but I don't think he is going to keep that going on a consistent basis. Let's face it, he gets out of position fairly often and lets up some juicy rebounds. Couple that with a defensive system that tends to give up too many second chances and its a recipe for disaster.

On the flip side, watching Bob play, the guy is always in position and his rebound control is excellent. He is the only reason the Jackets are winning games. Hank faced 42, but Bob saved all 36.

Bob is great, but he's not the only reason Columbus is winning. They're a legitimately good team at this point.

Hank's positioning and rebound control have both been fine lately, not sure what that comment is based on. If anything his positioning and rebound control is more back to normal with what we're used to seeing from him as opposed to last season when he actually was out of position a lot and giving up bad rebounds because he he was reacting late and such. He's been much better this year.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I just think that old biases die hard and it's natural to be defensive of players that share your nationality and preferred playing style.

I think it's more a prevoncieved notion of what the players are more than than nationality that creates the bias.

Buch = super skilled and tremendous offensive talents, thus the old school mindset is that a player like that must be bad defensively. (Although this notion is stupid because look at guys like Kopitar and Crosby, tremendous offensive talents and great in their own zone)

Vesey = looks like he's working hard, fast skater and will throw his body around so the old school mindset thinks he's a hard working grinder.

It's just lazy evaluation. Buchnevich is better than Vesey in every aspect of the game, in all 3 zones and on special teams. Vesey is a tire fire on the PP and yet AV keeps using him. Buch is a great passes and has excellent vision, Vesey has tunnel vision with the puck and is a very poor passer when he decides to pass. Vesey is worse in his own zone than Buch but they think bc Vesey is less skilled and a "harder worker" (he's not but appears to be because of how he skates) that he's a grinder and defensively responsible. Vesey might be the worst defensive forward on the team even worse than DD. Which reminds me, having those two out together it's no surprise they routinely get scored on and pinned in their own end.

I would have no problem with Vesey if he were used the way I said in my post previously in this thread: 4th line energy guy who can move up the lineup when he's playing well if needed. The problem is AV moves him up the lineup when he's not even playing well. And still to be honest even if he is playing well he's so bad in the D zone that I really am not comfortable with him out there at all. He has really bad defensive awareness and his hockey smarts are just not up to snuff to know what to do in his own zone. How he hasn't improved at all in that aspect of his game is beyond me.

 

[chosen]

I don't know anyone with a bias against Russian people. Lots of Americans don't like the current Russian government.

Same with Europeans who like Americans, but don't like (and can't understand) our current government.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

What are Buch’s defensive stats, and what was his typical usage while playing in Russia?

 

[aufheben]

Guys take a

 

[aufheben]

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