It's been a weird start to the season for the bullpen. They're middle-of-the-pack in pretty much every underlying stat (as well as the more basic stats), yet they're 0-7 so far. The timing has just been terrible.
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It's been a weird start to the season for the bullpen. They're middle-of-the-pack in pretty much every underlying stat (as well as the more basic stats), yet they're 0-7 so far. The timing has just been terrible.
zeke
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the bullpen isn't really struggling to get good outings - most of them have been good (osuna floyd chavez biagini). It's just that 2 key guys in cecil and storen have really sucked.
Bluelines
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That 0-7 has to be partially hung on Gibbons, the guy he picks has to execute so its mostly on the relief pitcher but the guy doing the picking needs to know the guy he is picking can get the job done. No time for holding hands.
Never like Gibbons coaching style anyways. The sooner he is gone the better.
On pace for 0-44
That 0-7 has to be partially hung on Gibbons, the guy he picks has to execute so its mostly on the relief pitcher but the guy doing the picking needs to know the guy he is picking can get the job done. No time for holding hands.
Never like Gibbons coaching style anyways. The sooner he is gone the better.
On pace for 0-44
Well, Brett Cecil, who is probably the team's best reliever, is 0-4 on his own. Any good manager would have used Cecil in every single situation where he got the loss this year.
King Mapes
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King Mapes
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That 0-7 has to be partially hung on Gibbons, the guy he picks has to execute so its mostly on the relief pitcher but the guy doing the picking needs to know the guy he is picking can get the job done. No time for holding hands.
Never like Gibbons coaching style anyways. The sooner he is gone the better.
On pace for 0-44
We made the playoffs last year so I hope he stays.
0-7 because of him?
Maybe he shouldn't have stuck with him to face Rollins and Abreu, but it was a bases-loaded situation with two out and a lefty coming up. Cecil was hands down the best choice to face Eaton.
Whether signing Price to a large contract, was the right or wrong move in terms of dollars, sometimes in business, you have to spend money to make money. The Jays are being hamstrung by Rogers, because some idiot had the brilliant idea, that NFL Bills games would work in Toronto. Wrong answer, and the company lost there shirt. Then another idiot decides, that we need NHL hockey every night on 10 freakin channels through out the season. Wrong answer, and Rogers loses it shirt. We then have a baseball team, that is middling for 5 1/2 years. They might break even, lose some, but not like the other two ventures, and then they start winning, and the money starts piling in. What do they do? Find a bean counter from Cleveland who has pinched pennies his whole career in that market. So instead of adding more money to something that all of a sudden starts working, let's cut it back and put the money in our pockets. By not signing David Price, the Toronto Blue Jays, were telling the rest of the players, and MLB, that business has not changed here in Toronto, and the status quo, of being a 2nd Tier market still exists. If you sign Price, whether it panned out or not, you tell all the players in the game, that Toronto is serious about winning, and it is a place to play. All the wrong signals were sent by the Jays to guys that step on the field. Do you really think Donaldson will sign a second contract here in Toronto? The Jays have never been able to get a guy to sign a 2nd deal. Look at Bautista and Encarnacion, both looking at signing a 2nd deal, and they have both been told no. They could have easily signed them midway through last year, and probably got them cheaper at that point, but didn't. If you were them, and your team brought in Reyes, Martin, Dickie, Buhrle, and Tulowitzki, and they are or are going to make more money than you, you would be pissed, and rightfully so. At that point, the Jays should have taken care of Bautista and Encarnacion, and this dark cloud hanging over this team, would not have been here. The statement that Bautista made in spring training about a home town discount, would not have been made. Did he sign a bad deal with the Jays in the first place? Maybe, but there were a lot of unknowns when it was. The team should have open it up, as soon as they started throwing all that money at the stiffs, that Alex had brought in. Management has no one to blame but themselves for creating this mess.
TheBeastCoast
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zeke
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Estrada, Dickey, Happ, Floyd, Chavez, Storen, Biagini, Venditte, Morales: 116.2ip, 4.09era (107-), 3.83fip (96-), 4.27xfip (109-), 4.15siera, 1.3fwar, 0.6ra9war
$50m doesn't buy what it used to. That's a lot of money for sub-mediocrity.
Thank the babip gods for stepping in and stopping the Saunders-Bruce trade, at least.
$50m doesn't buy what it used to. That's a lot of money for sub-mediocrity.
Thank the babip gods for stepping in and stopping the Saunders-Bruce trade, at least.
Eyedea
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metafour
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TheBeastCoast
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Not sure why you have Estrada and Happ there they have more then done there part in what is really the only somewhat positive so far this season which is our rotation and that is $20 million between them, also that collection of players is not the reason we aren't winning. EE has barely been replacement level, Martin has fallen off a cliff into a pit of awful and Tulo has basically been all defensive value. We have big name players that just are not getting it done and that is the real problem.
Canada4Gold
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SRF 3 IP, 1 ER, 4 hits, 0 walks, 5 K's
Not sure why they took him out after 3 innings. The 0 walks is very encouraging, as well as the K's but they've always been there.
Not sure why they took him out after 3 innings. The 0 walks is very encouraging, as well as the K's but they've always been there.
Bluelines
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We made the playoffs last year so I hope he stays.
0-7 because of him?
Yeh Gibbons has to wear some of that responsibility, most teams are on cruise mode for the 1st 6 innings, you don't see the manager consistently making moves like pinch hitters or changing the SP in the first 6 innings unless there is a poor outing or injury. The manager tends to be the most active in innings 7 through 9, the outcome usually falls on those decisions.
Gibby should know that the Cecil this year is not the Cecil of previous years but because of some loyalty of past performance he feels toward Cecil he keeps going back to him. 7th/8th/9th inning with men on base is no place for Cecil to be trying to figure it out.
Its all about the wins not Gibbys Southern Boys Club. Can we clone Tony La Russa?
GoonieFace
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zeke
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metafour
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Any time I see an argument that revolves around the need to spend money in order to "send a message", I roll my eyes immediately. This isn't a professional d*ck measuring contest.
You want to know the truth? Bautista and Encarnacion aren't getting paid hundreds of millions because they both spent their prime YOUTH years as middling players. Who's fault is that? They both signed FAIR contracts given their performance at the time, and now they're both too old to warrant "cashing out" on their second contracts. Tough luck. Who gives a **** about what Bautista thinks or says, honestly? He's a 36 year old free agent and he thinks he's getting $150 million...newsflash: Adrian Beltre at 37 just signed a 2 year, $36 million deal. David Ortiz has been playing out the entirety of his mid 30's on 1-2 year contracts. Bautista wants $150 million? Maybe he shouldn't have spent his entire 20's as a fringe MLB player. Both of these players were cast-aways when they came here; we gave them the platform to perform, and they did. They were fairly paid given the risk at the time, and they just happened to outperform their salaries. That is what happens when you "break out" at 28-30 years old. This isn't the Make a Wish Foundation; we're not in the business of "making up" for lost millions by handing over $100+ million contracts to 36 year olds.
Muston Atthews
Bunch of Bangerz
Donny calling out the team. I like it. Hopefully it works like last year. It's the get it done league boys
GoonieFace
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Yeah its laughable that people perceive Rogers and Shapiro as "cheap". We have a top 10 (maybe higher) payroll in baseball, and the fact that Shapiro was in Cleveland has no bearing on his job in Toronto.
Loosie
The Eternal Optimist
Really from what I've seen right now it's a combination of things. Leaving the starters in too long (admittedly this is a hindsight thing, but also falls in with my next point), the bullpen being atrocious with inherited runners, and the offense being inconsistent/not showing up late in the games. As well as being pretty poor with RISP.
8 hits and 1 run over the last two games is pretty bad, even with one of those games being against Sale. Yet how many times have the Jays not scored past the 5th inning? You go back to Monday's game and add in 7 hits over the last 6 innings with no runs. That 15 hits 0 runs over 24 innings.
Any team can have bats go cold, or the bullpen struggle. We're having both of them happen at the same time.
Not really a panic mode yet, but the bullpen does worry me (aside from Osuna so far, and even he's let a few runs in and made it really close one game.)
8 hits and 1 run over the last two games is pretty bad, even with one of those games being against Sale. Yet how many times have the Jays not scored past the 5th inning? You go back to Monday's game and add in 7 hits over the last 6 innings with no runs. That 15 hits 0 runs over 24 innings.
Any team can have bats go cold, or the bullpen struggle. We're having both of them happen at the same time.
Not really a panic mode yet, but the bullpen does worry me (aside from Osuna so far, and even he's let a few runs in and made it really close one game.)
TheBeastCoast
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It comes down to the fact that it is the people screaming for the Jays to sign Bautista and EE to 30 and 20 million a year contracts and Price would be the ones pissed off in 3 years when we are a bad team with over a 100 million tied up in declining aging veterans and nothing coming up through the farm.
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