12'/13' Draft Thread: Offensive flash is a beauty but defensive presence rules.

[The Magic Man]

Nope it's comments, that infer I am anti Russian that I am forced to defend myself on. Despite me liking this prospect, even over Monahan a player I like a lot. This is what is getting old.

I haven't seen anyone call you anti-russian in quite a while. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Like the post where I dragged him into "sub-plots". Hahahah.

Either way. At the moment, Nichushkin is a big, one-way player. Not dynamic, as his game needs a ton of rounding out, in a bunch of areas. He couldn't possibly play center in the NHL with his current skill-set, as he doesn't show up off the puck really, and plays a PF wing game to a "T".

I like him a lot, but the wings are the last position we should be worried about right now.

 

[The Magic Man]

Like the post where I dragged him into "sub-plots". Hahahah.

Either way. At the moment, Nichushkin is a big, one-way player. Not dynamic, as his game needs a ton of rounding out, in a bunch of areas. He couldn't possibly play center in the NHL with his current skill-set, as he doesn't show up off the puck really, and plays a PF wing game to a "T".

I like him a lot, but the wings are the last position we should be worried about right now.

I didn't really watch him play much. I missed a lot of the WJC. I'm still really hoping we get a center more then anything this year. I wanted it last year as well. But I do love what Rielly brings. If we do end up with Jones, even at 1, I will be excited for that.

But I will say I am following(as best I can) centers more then anything. MacKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan, Nichuskin, Gauthier. Especially those with size. I'm not as interested in smaller guys without huge upside or a part time center, even Drouin.

I really want a big center, even if he isn't a PPG type. A 50-60pt 2way, all situation guy is higher on my list then another flashy winger. I can't say I'd pass on Drouin for Gauthier, but I may consider moving back and getting more picks. Drouin may never play center, and I dont' think he will be better then Kessel.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Like the post where I dragged him into "sub-plots". Hahahah.

Either way. At the moment, Nichushkin is a big, one-way player. Not dynamic, as his game needs a ton of rounding out, in a bunch of areas. He couldn't possibly play center in the NHL with his current skill-set, as he doesn't show up off the puck really, and plays a PF wing game to a "T".

I like him a lot, but the wings are the last position we should be worried about right now.

I know, I know, we need a Center. You have said it enough already that it sounds like a broken record, that you ignore other prospects. This is an example of forcing a square peg into a round hole. You would pass on Jones who most if not all scouts have ahead if Barkov because he is a Center because of your shortsightedness. Brilliant!

Nichuskin's potential is obvious, the TSN commentators were saying it enough during the Worlds, Ferraro, Miller, Duthie, Mckenzie, Button. They agree with my assessement more than yours.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

and again it's comments like this that are only put out there to insight arguments. It's getting old though.

The ignore function does wonders. Now if I didn't have to see quotes either..

I wonder how many teams will be willing to trade their 1st round draft picks this year. If Columbus is fighting for a playoff spot they may consider dealing one of the three they already have. I'm still curious about how the draft lottery will work and how/if the weighted system works.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I haven't seen anyone call you anti-russian in quite a while. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Somone posted that I was anti Euro last week, didn't think liking Lindholm or Forsberg, Faksa last year constituted me being anti Euro, but good of you to atleast ask and clear this up.

Maybe it's time for me to use the ignore button on the dummies here.

 

[The Magic Man]

The ignore function does wonders. Now if I didn't have to see quotes either..

I wonder how many teams will be willing to trade their 1st round draft picks this year. If Columbus is fighting for a playoff spot they may consider dealing one of the three they already have. I'm still curious about how the draft lottery will work and how/if the weighted system works.

LOL. I don't like to ignore anyone. He actually does put out some decent conversation at times. I just get sick of the bickering. No matter the subject. If someone disagrees with you, especially on something so fickle as prospect rankings, there is no need to go on for pages about why your right and he's wrong. It's just opinion and we're all entitled to it.

Anyway, I've been paying more attention lately to the middle of the draft and would love another pick 10-25. I like a lot of what I can read on some of these prospects.

Lazar, Pulock, Hagg, Nurse, Lehkonen, Mantha, Gauthier, Fucale, Thompson, Rychel. No order to this list, just some of the players that have gotten my interest. But what do you move to get one of these picks? I'm afraid to ask.

 

[Epictetus]

Discriminating against potential draftees on the basis of not being a center because the Leafs "need" a center is laughable.

The object of a draft is to fill your team with as much talent and probjectability as possible. Period. You worry about the trivial things such as "Oh my God, we have too many d-men\wingers as prospects!" later on.

This also applies to nationality and background. The Canadian inferiority-complex about "stealing Canada's game" is making people delusional about talent and projectability and taking irrelevant factors into consideration. A prospect cannot be better than another prospect because they are from 'X'.

This is "common-sense" (Quotations because I don't think there is anymore based on my experience with other human-beings). But you get the point, hopefully.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Discriminating against potential draftees on the basis of not being a center because the Leafs "need" a center is laughable.

The object of a draft is to fill your team with as much talent and probjectability as possible. Period. You worry about the trivial things such as "Oh my God, we have too many d-men\wingers as prospects!" later on.

This also applies to nationality and background. The Canadian inferiority-complex about "stealing Canada's game" is making people delusional about talent and projectability and taking irrelevant factors into consideration. A prospect cannot be better than another prospect because they are from 'X'.

This is "common-sense" (Quotations because I don't think there is anymore based on my experience with other human-beings). But you get the point, hopefully.

Outstanding first paragraph and post! I don't compliment many posts here, but the simple mentality we need to draft a C for the sake of needing a C is pure idiocy.

Thanks for this, you restored my faith there are some bright posters on this board and I am not preaching to the blind.

Philosophy Also applies to trades, to not trade an average #2C because this team is weak at the position even if the player or goalie is much better and an improvement to the roster, is even more bizarre thinking.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I know, I know, we need a Center. You have said it enough already that it sounds like a broken record, that you ignore other prospects. This is an example of forcing a square peg into a round hole. You would pass on Jones who most if not all scouts have ahead if Barkov because he is a Center because of your shortsightedness. Brilliant!

Nichuskin's potential is obvious, the TSN commentators were saying it enough during the Worlds, Ferraro, Miller, Duthie, Mckenzie, Button. They agree with my assessement more than yours.

The idea that I'm only open to a center is ridiculous. I've been adamant that I would take any player, base on where we picked, and in a situation where players were pretty much equal, and only the position made the difference, I'd take a center.

I've sai time and again, that I like Jones, Nichushkin, Drouin, Erne. I like. Lot of kids in this draft. Would I rather a center, sure. Does this team need D as much as it does a center to put a letter on and lead the charge? Not even close.

However the chips fall, I just want the organization to come away with a great piece for the future, whether that's a D-man, center, winger, or goalie.

And the commentators only agree with you so often because you've proven in your own words that you don't bother to watch kids. I don't doubt where you get assessments, they come straight from MacKenzie's mouth.

If Nichuskin's potential is so obvious, and outside of Button, he's ranked closer to 10 than the top 5, why is it that Barkov's potential isn't even more obvious, being ranked in the top 3-4 of almost every list?

Valid question.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Outstanding first paragraph and post! I don't compliment many posts here, but the simple mentality we need to draft a C for the sake of needing a C is pure idiocy.

Thanks for this, you restored my faith there are some bright posters on this board and I am not preaching to the blind.

Philosophy Also applies to trades, to not trade an average #2C because this team is weak at the position even if the player or goalie is much better and an improvement to the roster, is even more bizarre thinking.

Calling a large majority of the board's posters stupid is a great way to go about things. Please, go on.

Lol @ the last part. Yup, please completely anihilate the depth and talent at the center position, by trading the only real top-6 center on the big club, for a goalie over 32 years old, so we can waste all the drafting we've done, by trading off our prospects to fill huge holes down the middle.

Agenda-driven filth, is all.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The idea that I'm only open to a center is ridiculous. I've been adamant that I would take any player, base on where we picked, and in a situation where players were pretty much equal, and only the position made the difference, I'd take a center.

I've sai time and again, that I like Jones, Nichushkin, Drouin, Erne. I like. Lot of kids in this draft. Would I rather a center, sure. Does this team need D as much as it does a center to put a letter on and lead the charge? Not even close.

However the chips fall, I just want the organization to come away with a great piece for the future, whether that's a D-man, center, winger, or goalie.

And the commentators only agree with you so often because you've proven in your own words that you don't bother to watch kids. I don't doubt where you get assessments, they come straight from MacKenzie's mouth.

If Nichuskin's potential is so obvious, and outside of Button, he's ranked closer to 10 than the top 5, why is it that Barkov's potential isn't even more obvious, being ranked in the top 3-4 of almost every list?

Valid question.

Is it a coincidence your 3 favorite prospects the past 2 years are Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, or Barkov?

Did you not also say Jones had questionable IQ and you only toned it down when Jones quieted the critics with his last 3 games for Team USA. You only reluctantly gave credit to Jones when you had to. Jones is #1 on most lists post WJC, so I ask you now, who would you pick a universally higher rated player in Jones or your fav Barkov? Let's see you rationalize this one.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Is it a coincidence your 3 favorite prospects the past 2 years are Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, or Barkov?

Did you not also say Jones had quastionable and you only toned it down when Jones quieted the critics with his last 3 games for Team USA. You only reluctantly gave credit to Jones when you had to. Jones is #1 on most lists post WJC, so I ask you now, who would you pick a universa higher ratedl player in Jones or your fav Barkov? Let's see you rationalize this one.

I wasn't forced to change my tune at all, I've always had Jones in my top 3, with MacKinnon and Barkov, like pretty much every scout and analyst does.

WJC showed the good and bad of Jones and the rest, but isn't enough to move any of them out of their position. And uhhh, he can't take back the give-aways in his own zone, nor the two times he got caught sleeping in front of the net that caused goals, but those things happen. Mental mistakes happen to kids at 17/18. I simply stated his problems were mental (an they were).

I pick Barkov, as I said above, I see two kids, both elite, franchise potential, and both have the work ethic and attitude to reach their potential. All things being equal, i go with BPA+need. I also like the idea of not having to trade other assets to fill a hole. Why not keep your assets, and fill the hole with an elite player in the first place, and have stronger prospect base to work with moving forward. If the kid you pick is a potential frnachise player anyway, there's absolutely no harm in keeping your prospect depth intact.

And regardless of who my favourite prospect has been the last few years, those two from last year are proving to be dandies, and that can't really be argued against at all. They're proving it on the ice.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I wasn't forced to change my tune at all, I've always had Jones in my top 3, with MacKinnon and Barkov, like pretty much every scout and analyst does.

WJC showed the good and bad of Jones and the rest, but isn't enough to move any of them out of their position. And uhhh, he can't take back the give-aways in his own zone, nor the two times he got caught sleeping in front of the net that caused goals, but those things happen. Mental mistakes happen to kids at 17/18. I simply stated his problems were mental (an they were).

I pick Barkov, as I said above, I see two kids, both elite, franchise potential, and both have the work ethic and attitude to reach their potential. All things being equal, i go with BPA+need. I also like the idea of not having to trade other assets to fill a hole. Why not keep your assets, and fill the hole with an elite player in the first place, and have stronger prospect base to work with moving forward. If the kid you pick is a potential frnachise player anyway, there's absolutely no harm in keeping your prospect depth intact.

And regardless of who my favourite prospect has been the last few years, those two from last year are proving to be dandies, and that can't really be argued against at all. They're proving it on the ice.

Jones is ahead of Barkov in all draft rankings, and you would still take Barkov? Why because he is center, correct?

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Jones is ahead of Barkov in all draft rankings, and you would still take Barkov? Why because he is center, correct?

I've watched both players and have ranked them myself, And I happen to like Barkov and his skill-set, as well as cerebral nature more.

Simple as that. End of story.

Any team in the top 5 walks away with a building block for their organization, I just want our's to be him. He's humble, lets his actions do the talking, works hard, plays hard, revered by his coaches and teammates, he's a leader, he's an ideal playmaker, solid defensively at 17, and has all the tools to be a star. What's not to like?

 

[Oan]

What's not to like?

Obviously his horrible skating and a no show in WJC

 

[legendinblue]

Excuse me for not keeping up lately, is this still considered a deep draft as we are very slowly nearing the draft day?

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Excuse me for not keeping up lately, is this still considered a deep draft as we are very slowly nearing the draft day?

Yeah, it's a pretty solid draft, with a good amount of high-end talent throughout the first round

 

[theIceWookie]

I know, I know, we need a Center. You have said it enough already that it sounds like a broken record, that you ignore other prospects. This is an example of forcing a square peg into a round hole. You would pass on Jones who most if not all scouts have ahead if Barkov because he is a Center because of your shortsightedness. Brilliant!

Nichuskin's potential is obvious, the TSN commentators were saying it enough during the Worlds, Ferraro, Miller, Duthie, Mckenzie, Button. They agree with my assessement more than yours.

you and your double standardss...


its ok for you to have nichuskin high or monohan above barkov because some scout or commentator madensome comment on potential, or button has one player really high but the second someone else does, its madness, illogical and stupid. ernie has barkov high at one and its some stupid idea now? even thoigh multiple scoits imcludijstatedng button have stated his potential isnsky high and he is in contention for that spot? oh but wait, no one has him ranked there or hes from a league i dont aprove of so he cant go that high, your dumb. its weak.


nichuskin is cool and i like him. but hes not good enough to go above some players you think he is. at least not yet.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

you and your double standardss...


its ok for you to have nichuskin high or monohan above barkov because some scout or commentator madensome comment on potential, or button has one player really high but the second someone else does, its madness, illogical and stupid. ernie has barkov high at one and its some stupid idea now? even thoigh multiple scoits imcludijstatedng button have stated his potential isnsky high and he is in contention for that spot? oh but wait, no one has him ranked there or hes from a league i dont aprove of so he cant go that high, your dumb. its weak.


nichuskin is cool and i like him. but hes not good enough to go above some players you think he is. at least not yet.

If Ernie has Barkov ahead of Jones, why is this not a double standard? Do you see anyone jumping on him despite no scout that I have seen has Barkov #1 overall, or even over Mackinnon.

Nichuskin better than Barkov is not a far fetched idea as you seem, I know you are a little biased on Barkov, but if you have seen Nichuskin play, certainly you would be impressed.

 

[Rockinz]

Im surprised people are not talking about Valeri Nichushkin!!!

GREAT skater, strong on his skates, solid 2 way game and HUGE offensive upside.

Heard from a scout that he is probably the most underrated player at the draft.

If we are in a 5-10 spot he would be a great addition.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

If Ernie has Barkov ahead of Jones, why is this not a double standard? Do you see anyone jumping on him despite no scout that I have seen has Barkov #1 overall, or even over Mackinnon.

Nichuskin better than Barkov is not a far fetched idea as you seem, I know you are a little biased on Barkov, but if you have seen Nichuskin play, certainly you would be impressed.

Naaa, it's pretty far-fetched. He's good, but doesn't have nearly the complete skill set.

And it's quite different when you're choosing preference betwen 3 elite, franchise potential players. It's a matter of preference. When you're putting someone in the 7-12 range above those in the top 3, it makes people skeptical.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Naaa, it's pretty far-fetched. He's good, but doesn't have nearly the complete skill set.

And it's quite different when you're choosing preference betwen 3 elite, franchise potential players. It's a matter of preference. When you're putting someone in the 7-12 range above those in the top 3, it makes people skeptical.

You are in the clear minority here, I haven't heard one scout yet say Jones doesn't have the complete skill set. If he were a Center, I bet your opinion would be different. He is #1 post WJC, and Barkov is not on the same radar at the moment. Look at the lists, if you watched the tournament and listened to the analysts, they all say the same thing. Jones making a case for #1, and draft lists post WJC support this.

 

[Terrence]

Other than Button's list who has had Jones #1 all year, what other scouting services have released draft rankings since the WJC?

 

[ErnieLeafs]

You are in the clear minority here, I haven't heard one scout yet say Jones doesn't have the complete skill set. If he were a Center, I bet your opinion would be different. He is #1 post WJC, and Barkov is not on the same radar at the moment. Look at the lists, if you watched the tournament and listened to the analysts, they all say the same thing. Jones making a case for #1, and draft lists post WJC support this.

Nice try at fitting this conveniently into your argument, but unfortunately, it's hard to play dumb when it's pretty clear that we're talking about Nichushkin, from your last post, and the post by Finnish.....

Why do you keep saying "if you watched the WJC..."? .... I did. YOU didn't watch a single game Finland played, and probably haven't taken the time to watch any of Tappara's games on firstrowsports have you? Right, so you haven't the slightest idea about anything Barkov related, except that you don't like him because .... well...... I guess none of us know why.

Right. I know what I SAW, and since I didn't have TSN to watch, through you, I got a good analysis of what Mackenzie thought of the draft crop.