12'/13' Draft Thread: Offensive flash is a beauty but defensive presence rules.

[7even]

Does it matter? To use one of the examples you cited JT was clearly going #1 over Hedman in 09 and I wouldn't count him out as a bust yet. Erik Johnson is not a good example because he didn't have the exposure of Seth Jones had in the WHL, he was a college player as Brian Lawton was another #1 pick, a Center for those too young to recall. Jones has played well in the WHL, and now the World Juniors, he also excelled at the Under 18 gold medal winning US team. His resume is far more complete.

How is a guy drafted in 1983 relevant exactly?

 

[ErnieLeafs]

We need a leader up front so badly, that it's often hard to look to D-men with a critical, high pick. We have used SO MANY high picks on D-men, and so few on top-6 forwards, that it's sort of disheartening.

We've used high picks (Since 2008) on defense in the case of:
Schenn
Percy
Rielly
Finn
Blacker

And in that same span, the only top-6 forward talents we've used a high pick on was Nazem Kadri.


We need someone up front who can lead that end of the bench. We need a guy to hang our hat on, like Sundin, like Clark, like Gilmore.

I like Seth Jones, but all things considered, our team desperately lacks a player like MacKinnon/Barkov/Monahan/Lindholm/Drouin.

I would take Monahan over Lindholm, but not the other two. Really like his game, I just think the other two centers project much higher.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Not that it matters, but you are from Halifax, I would be a little biased on behalf of Nate and Drouin also I guess, but I am not and I can rate them fairly.

For the record, I think all 3 are slam dunk stars in the NHL, you see risk in Jones. I have these 3 pretty much separated at the mid way point. There are always players coming out of nowhere that may move into the top 10, can't see these top 3 though. Any team drafting any of them will have done well IMO.

I just don't see how you can dismiss what we saw of Jones these past 2 weeks and say he is more risky then Mackinnon or Drouin. To equate it to an Eric Johnson situation is a stretch, as laid out Jones is far more accomplished than Johnson was going into his draft year.

Jones could probably play in the NHL next year, that's what scouts think of him. Even if he never improves beyond this year, he will be a NHL player. Now we all know he is not going to stay at this level, he's going to get better. That's why he is the #1 rated player as the lists will indicate soon at this present time.

Do you believe what you accomplish prior to being drafted is indicative to how good you are individually, and thus, a good indicator of how you will project over time?

 

[BertCorbeau]

We need a leader up front so badly, that it's often hard to look to D-men with a critical, high pick. We have used SO MANY high picks on D-men, and so few on top-6 forwards, that it's sort of disheartening.

We've used high picks (Since 2008) on defense in the case of:
Schenn
Percy
Rielly
Finn
Blacker

And in that same span, the only top-6 forward talents we've used a high pick on was Nazem Kadri.


We need someone up front who can lead that end of the bench. We need a guy to hang our hat on, like Sundin, like Clark, like Gilmore.

I like Seth Jones, but all things considered, our team desperately lacks a player like MacKinnon/Barkov/Monahan/Lindholm/Drouin.

I would take Monahan over Lindholm, but not the other two. Really like his game, I just think the other two centers project much higher.

I agree with you here Ernie, the Leafs depth on young defenseman and defensive prospects is great .. One of the better groups in the league, getting Rielly last year really cemented the fact .. In addition to the names you listed about the Leafs have Gards already in the league, plus Holzer, Nilsson is looking promising .. There's a lot to look forward too

And while the Leafs have also stocked up on quality bottom 6 talent, some players with second line upside, they do need to look to get some top line talent in the system .. You still take Jones if you feel he's the BPA by a wide margin, but I'd consider taking one of the forward talents if you feel their comparative value is close based on need

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I agree with you here Ernie, the Leafs depth on young defenseman and defensive prospects is great .. One of the better groups in the league, getting Rielly last year really cemented the fact .. In addition to the names you listed about the Leafs have Gards already in the league, plus Holzer, Nilsson is looking promising .. There's a lot to look forward too

And while the Leafs have also stocked up on quality bottom 6 talent, some players with second line upside, they do need to look to get some top line talent in the system .. You still take Jones if you feel he's the BPA by a wide margin, but I'd consider taking one of the forward talents if you feel their comparative value is close based on need

If we had a choice between MacK and Jones, and didn't walk away with Nate, I'd completely !^$@ a squirrel.

 

[Pi]

If we had a choice between MacK and Jones, and didn't walk away with Nate, I'd completely !^$@ a squirrel.

Same. If we get a choice between Mackinnon and Jones...I'd be pretty bummed if we took Jones.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

How is a guy drafted in 1983 relevant exactly?

And curious where was this same question for a guy drated in the 2006 draft?

 

[Dangles McGavin]

If we had a choice between MacK and Jones, and didn't walk away with Nate, I'd completely !^$@ a squirrel.

Agreed. Jones is sick, maybe even a better prospect than Nate (debatable), but we NEED a Mackinnon.

 

[7even]

And curious where was this same question for a guy drated in the 2006 draft?

One happened in the early 80s. The other was 7 years ago. They're clearly different.

 

[The Magic Man]

I'm really hoping we get a center in this draft, but NO way in hell do I take Drouin over Jones.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I'm really hoping we get a center in this draft, but NO way in hell do I take Drouin over Jones.

Yeah, my personal feeling is that Jones and Mackinnon are on a level of their own in this draft with Drouin being top of the next tier down

Jones, Rielly, and Gardiner is an amazing group of young defensemen to build around ..

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I'm really hoping we get a center in this draft, but NO way in hell do I take Drouin over Jones.

I don't either, but I take Barkov or MacK, both with franchise potential at the center position.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Jones, Rielly, and Gardiner is an amazing group of young defensemen to build around ..

Our own Robinson, Savard and Lapointe if you like.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

One happened in the early 80s. The other was 7 years ago. They're clearly different.

Johnson and Lawton were both college players their draft year, Jones isn't. Time has no relevance on busts.

Whether it's Joe Murphy in 86 or Kyle Turris in 2007 or Blake Wheeler in 2004.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

We need a leader up front so badly, that it's often hard to look to D-men with a critical, high pick. We have used SO MANY high picks on D-men, and so few on top-6 forwards, that it's sort of disheartening.

We've used high picks (Since 2008) on defense in the case of:
Schenn
Percy
Rielly
Finn
Blacker

And in that same span, the only top-6 forward talents we've used a high pick on was Nazem Kadri.


We need someone up front who can lead that end of the bench. We need a guy to hang our hat on, like Sundin, like Clark, like Gilmore.

I like Seth Jones, but all things considered, our team desperately lacks a player like MacKinnon/Barkov/Monahan/Lindholm/Drouin.

I would take Monahan over Lindholm, but not the other two. Really like his game, I just think the other two centers project much higher.

Sounds similar to the Gally/Grigorenko lobbying last year over the highly touted D men. I'm glad Burke is running the draft and not Leafs fans.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Johnson and Lawton were both college players their draft year, Jones isn't. Time has no relevance on busts.

Whether it's Joe Murphy in 86 or Kyle Turris in 2007 or Blake Wheeler in 2004.

I don't think Wheeler is a bust at all.
It took him awhile to settle in and find a niche, but he's been absolutely solid, and a great member of the Jets' forward core.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Sounds similar to the Gally/Grigorenko lobbying last year over the highly touted D men. I'm glad Burke is running the draft and not Leafs fans.

And both of those players are playing lights-out hockey in two of the best development leagues in the world. Your point?

We missed on two great center prospects. We ended up with a great piece on the back end in Rielly. I'm not mad, I just hope we get it right this year, and add the critical piece up front that this franchise has needed for years.

I'm not alone.

 

[LeafDangler]

Johnson and Lawton were both college players their draft year, Jones isn't. Time has no relevance on busts.

Whether it's Joe Murphy in 86 or Kyle Turris in 2007 or Blake Wheeler in 2004.

It absolutely does. Scouting and drafting has come a long long way from the 80s. Information and access to it has improved leaps and bounds since then so much so that any comparison is seriously flawed.

 

[JMcLeaf]

Sounds similar to the Gally/Grigorenko lobbying last year over the highly touted D men. I'm glad Burke is running the draft and not Leafs fans.

I love Rielly, but Gally and Grigo are looking good too. I'd be thrilled to have any of the 3. Glad we have 1.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm sure if Burke had a choice to pick Seth Jones, given he is a WHL player, an American born and developed product, his love for Pronger type D men, does anyone doubt he would go against most Hockey Scouts opinions and not pick him after witnessing how he was one of the 3 key D men that helped USA just win gold at the worlds.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I'm sure if Burke had a choice to pick Seth Jones, given he is a WHL player, an American born and developed product, his love for Pronger type D men, does anyone doubt he would go against most Hockey Scouts opinions and not pick him after witnessing how he was one of the 3 key D men that helped USA just win gold at the worlds.

I think he would pick Nathan MacKinnon.... Call it a hunch.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't think Wheeler is a bust at all.
It took him awhile to settle in and find a niche, but he's been absolutely solid, and a great member of the Jets' forward core.

Does he play like a 5th overall pick? If Rielly turns out to have the impact of Wheeler, how many Leafs fans will consider him a bust?

Luke Schenn is considered a bust already by some here right?

 

[King Mapes]

Not that it matters, but you are from Halifax, I would be a little biased on behalf of Nate and Drouin also I guess, but I am not and I can rate them fairly.

For the record, I think all 3 are slam dunk stars in the NHL, you see risk in Jones. I have these 3 pretty much separated at the mid way point. There are always players coming out of nowhere that may move into the top 10, can't see these top 3 though. Any team drafting any of them will have done well IMO.

I just don't see how you can dismiss what we saw of Jones these past 2 weeks and say he is more risky then Mackinnon or Drouin. To equate it to an Eric Johnson situation is a stretch, as laid out Jones is far more accomplished than Johnson was going into his draft year.

Jones could probably play in the NHL next year, that's what scouts think of him. Even if he never improves beyond this year, he will be a NHL player. Now we all know he is not going to stay at this level, he's going to get better. That's why he is the #1 rated player as the lists will indicate soon at this present time.

I'm not going to lie, I'm a huge Drouin fan. Anyone who knows me or sees me post would know. I'm not sure I'd take him before Jones TBH but for me, I'd debate. Would you rather Pronger or Giroux? Is there a wrong answer? Drouins value, as I've stated, could be vastly different if he returns to the Q next year and plays center. Without Nate, I see no reason why he wouldn't play there. His style does suit it.

I'm not saying I see risk in Jones personally, just that defence is harder to adapt to at the next level and thus, harder to predict. I've only seen him a few times (his WJC games) so I can't comment much on him personally. I don't put much stock into these games. If I did Drouin should go before Nate. But he won't, it's just a short tournament.

Nate will play in the NHL next year too though and he is the guy I've argued should go first. His all around game is superb, one of the best 2 way 17 year old forwards I've seen in awhile.

Also consider they are almost a year apart in age

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think he would pick Nathan MacKinnon.... Call it a hunch.

Your hunches haven't been good of late, I am glad you think so.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I love Rielly, but Gally and Grigo are looking good too. I'd be thrilled to have any of the 3. Glad we have 1.

Grigorenko has looked better than Yakupov, and Gally. But If you ask me Rielly has the most potential of all of them. It's too bad for him he was treated like a 5th or 6th D man by Spott. This is not being a Leafs homer, it is simply a fact. Playing him with Murphy was a full blown waste. And if one didn't read box scores Gally was invisible for pretty much the entire tournament. Ask the USA fans that saw him play, at the end he was playing behind Troechek and Biggs. Far less effective.