GDT: 11/30/23 - 7:00PM EDT - Pittsburgh vs Tampa Bay

[Master P]

If anyone is moved we need 1st round picks

Thats the million dollar question.

Do we move guys for other players to see if they're a better fit? Or do we load up on picks?

If we're loading up on picks then I think you can't half ass it. If you're looking for picks then you load up and tear down the entire team.

Only real way you could afford to re-tool the team is if you're trading away Stammer and Hedman. That free's up lots of space while still keeping enough core pieces to re-tool on the fly.

Just my two cents.

 

[Powerplay17]

Sharks are worse but the path JBB is on is the same one the Sharks too a number of years ago.

I do not like having the opinion I do. But the very issues I have been pointing to for few years now have progressed. It started with the 1 year extension of Point then he turned around and did the same with Cirelli, Cernak and Sergi this inflated their term contracts. He could have saved at least 4 mil per these decisions alone. I got my bad rep wanting to trade Cirelli then but folks are coming around now to that. JBB has went too far down the path now to keep a window open. And sure there are two cups but he has an inked young core with no cap and no draft picks to make any move. There are many here that were just too optimistic to see the issues coming tunnel vision is a thing. Currently we ice a scoring starved team that on occasion will put up 7 or 8 one someone but then go on streaks scoring 3 or fewer which is an issue with the D now iced. Special team is in shambles and our hopes were on ABB Shery and Jeannot to make huge strides. There is nothing in the AHL remotely close to being NHL player and the few that remain are 3rd 4 line tweeners. It is going to be ugly for a good number of years 8 to 10 likely. Heck at my age I doubt I will be on this side of the grass before they are cup competitive again.

Exactly. JBB ignored Father Time and now the core is aging and overpaid. I realize it takes balls to tell a fan base coming off two cups that changes need to be made but his handling of the roster since the second cup has been hockey malpractice.

 

[Rschmitz]

I think it's hilarious that on a night when the aged Pittsburgh Penguins come to town and defeat us that some here want to invoke age as the reason why we are struggling.

Stamkos and Hedman are just now barely breaking into the wrong end of the bell curve, they are not the reason why we are losing, our core is fine. This isn't the mid 90's when most players were forced to stick with their teams into their 30's and teams didn't have to consider the cap but the age of their stars.

We are losing because we no longer have cheap talent contribution, and in some cases some players like Sergachev and Cirelli and even Cernak are simply over paid. We've lost a lot of depth over the last three years in order to afford our core talent, but their replacements have been awful. Instead of McDonagh we have De Haan. Instead of Gourde we have Sheary. Instead of Coleman we have ABB.

The days of rolling line after line and overwhelming the other team is over. The Hawks beat us in the Cup Finals by hiding their weaknesses, if we are going to get by that is how we'll have to play in the meaningful games.

 

[T REX]

just so disappointed...i just dont see us getting better enough to contend.

we'll be lucky to make the playoffs

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

 

[Crunchrulz]

If we are ready to throw in the towel on December 1st and call it a season, perhaps it is time to start a "Sellers Market" thread to see who would give up which players for what value.
With all the No Trade Clauses and Limited Trade lists, it is going to be difficult to wheel and deal. However, every idea will be interesting to read, whether its legit or someone's fantasy deal.

 

[Master P]

If we are ready to throw in the towel on December 1st and call it a season, perhaps it is time to start a "Sellers Market" thread to see who would give up which players for what value.
With all the No Trade Clauses and Limited Trade lists, it is going to be difficult to wheel and deal. However, every idea will be interesting to read, whether its legit or someone's fantasy deal.

Idk about throwing in the towel. But I would really appreciate some coaching changes.

Blashill has been a nightmare and the defense has been lost since he came to the team.

Replace him and see if things don't get better before pulling the trigger on some serious moves.

 

[Ducati Boy]

I don’t see it as a structural or systemic problem but a circumstantial one - where we dont bear down on our best chances and lose focus for a few seconds on D. those are harder to fix.

Obviously we don’t have the depth of talent we did before but we have enough talent to win. Right now it’s more of a mental thing.

 

[Byrddog]

I think it's hilarious that on a night when the aged Pittsburgh Penguins come to town and defeat us that some here want to invoke age as the reason why we are struggling.

Stamkos and Hedman are just now barely breaking into the wrong end of the bell curve, they are not the reason why we are losing, our core is fine. This isn't the mid 90's when most players were forced to stick with their teams into their 30's and teams didn't have to consider the cap but the age of their stars.

We are losing because we no longer have cheap talent contribution, and in some cases some players like Sergachev and Cirelli and even Cernak are simply over paid. We've lost a lot of depth over the last three years in order to afford our core talent, but their replacements have been awful. Instead of McDonagh we have De Haan. Instead of Gourde we have Sheary. Instead of Coleman we have ABB.

The days of rolling line after line and overwhelming the other team is over. The Hawks beat us in the Cup Finals by hiding their weaknesses, if we are going to get by that is how we'll have to play in the meaningful games.

There has to be a plan to address roster changes. Every team must have solid veterans and a plan and system to replace them to extend windows. A productive veteran is always preferable to young unproven players. This is how you lose an aspect of the game Perbix and the other young defenders have had setbacks that have impacted the game both even strength and special teams. Poor GM decisions of balancing the roster just spending like a drunken sailor on the young guys just because they were on the roster for two cups cost veteran production and leadership cirelli is the perfect example sure he’s been a selkie canidate but is paid as a 2nd line scoring center. Hell TJ’s last season here his scoring was not far behind Cirelli and TJ played all over the 4 lines that year. TJ has his warts like all players do but he’s cheaper than 6relli now and the production is probably going to be close they both are fragile players and miss time .

This has been a number of bad GM decisions and players just not progressing . We are now stuck. Currently an average to below average team based on one true scoring line and goal tending and that is assuming Vasy is able to return to old Vasy. Something crashed with this team last January the team is projecting a loss of confidence which is primarily on the players sure a coach can influence this but not to the extent that most think. Is Coop burned out here quite possible but he still emotes caring unlike many coaches who collapse at the end of their tenure somewhere. Could a coaching change the on ice performance well probably not at this point it is a roster depleted in both scoring and defense ability. Would a GM change help yes but not short term the number of large contracts with movment clause’s tie a GM’s hands not to mention having picks and desirable young players to make trades with . This very well could be Stammers last season in Tampa. This and the modest increase in the cap I expect can afford two guys to plug in the top 6 or a top 4 defender and a third pair guy. I expect the offense to be addressed first since it will improve the 5x5 game and the PP. This is going to be like a shit sandwich you can only take one bite at a time and it will take a while to get back to cup contention. But it will take strong veterans and quality young guys to be brought along by those guys.

In my opinion the biggest loss was Killer that guy was a warrior who led by example productive even in his late years played with passion every shift not the most skilled but productive and respected. MacD was the same . But mgmt and the fans wanted your speed and flash. You can sign guys that can flourish following guys like that. Paul is an example he’s not a leader but fit in with Stammer and Killer at a reasonable price. He could have been the Gourde or Coleman replacment but was pushed down when Cirelli’s came back to a talentless pair of wings last year, that’s crushing . Bad timing a group of guys coming off ELC’s after winning the cup twice with greedy agents and a young GM. They are now faltering and the filler players have done close to nothing. There are going to be nights where Kuch and Point have mutiple points dragging Hagel with them to carry games but these games can not be counted as the norm just great games. If those three only have 1 point games it is a struggle.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I love that Byrd only posts during losses and then comes in like he knows a damn thing. Only 3 certainties in life. Death, Taxes, and Byrd posting from his high horse after a loss.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Hey a goalie goal, what a nice surprise, team!

 

[Stammertime91]

Carters first goal and Jarry flings one in. Hell of a goal scorers night.

I'm actually surprised this many people on here are looking for changes a quarter of the way through the season. Firing an assistant 23 games in won't do much. Firing Cooper would do more, but likely not in a good way. Cooper isn't the problem. Blashill won't be going anywhere until the off-season and we likely lose Halpern at that time too so things might change in terms of assistants anyhow.

In the meantime, the team sucks. The lines suck. The bottom six is a mess. Cirelli sucks. Sergachev sucks. Raddysh and Perbix pick their moments to suck, albeit Perbix much more frequently.

The list of players making an impact to put us where we are is rather short. We lack winger depth on this team. We have tweeners and centers playing wing and then when we are trailing, everything gets scrambled. I could see the argument there being on Cooper.

Tonight was embarrassing but I'm willing to journey further before throwing in the towel on the season. As someone mentioned, the days are gone of having those luxuries on the lower lines. It's just not there anymore. The small plays Palat, Gourde, Killorm used to make aren't there and their replacements are inferior except Hagel. De Haan I'm not a fan of. The team is a mess but I'd give them til late January.

 

[FinnLightning26]

There's just no scoring outside the first line and the defense is good for at least three goals against. Getting Vasy back was not going to fix this and I don't know if you can fix it in season without a coaching change and I don't want to see Coop gone.

I guess were officially in that no man's land where we're not good enough to make any serious noise and not bad enough to really suck. Not that sucking now would really help us since we don't have any picks.

 

[Lightning1995]

Was at the game last night and I knew five minutes into the 2nd we were in trouble. Outworked all over the ice by Pitt. This is a one line team with bad D.

 

[Byrddog]

Carters first goal and Jarry flings one in. Hell of a goal scorers night.

I'm actually surprised this many people on here are looking for changes a quarter of the way through the season. Firing an assistant 23 games in won't do much. Firing Cooper would do more, but likely not in a good way. Cooper isn't the problem. Blashill won't be going anywhere until the off-season and we likely lose Halpern at that time too so things might change in terms of assistants anyhow.

In the meantime, the team sucks. The lines suck. The bottom six is a mess. Cirelli sucks. Sergachev sucks. Raddysh and Perbix pick their moments to suck, albeit Perbix much more frequently.

The list of players making an impact to put us where we are is rather short. We lack winger depth on this team. We have tweeners and centers playing wing and then when we are trailing, everything gets scrambled. I could see the argument there being on Cooper.

Tonight was embarrassing but I'm willing to journey further before throwing in the towel on the season. As someone mentioned, the days are gone of having those luxuries on the lower lines. It's just not there anymore. The small plays Palat, Gourde, Killorm used to make aren't there and their replacements are inferior except Hagel. De Haan I'm not a fan of. The team is a mess but I'd give them til late January.

It is not just the 1/4 of the season recall starting last January something happened? It was not the team that started the season. After the all star break they played some pretty bad hockey including the playoff series. Remember it was night after night of a good 1st period then just finding ways to lose. IMO it was the return of Cirelli who after a couple weeks on the 3rd line he was moved to 2nd and killed Paul’s production the rest of the year while Cirelli did not do much. So it’s not just this first quarter of the season.

 

[The Gongshow]

We are losing because we no longer have cheap talent contribution, and in some cases some players like Sergachev and Cirelli and even Cernak are simply over paid. We've lost a lot of depth over the last three years in order to afford our core talent, but their replacements have been awful. Instead of McDonagh we have De Haan. Instead of Gourde we have Sheary. Instead of Coleman we have ABB.

We also don't have any prospects in the wings to come up and fill holes because they've traded any and all assets or have had poor draft classes the last few years.
They won't make a huge impact but ease the transition between cores or re-tools.

JBB has overpaid for a few players both via trades and contracts and I have really soured on him. Credit where credit is due, Hagel was a fantastic pick up, and obviously cap restraints suck but a good chunk of the signings recently are just passengers and not contributing much.

The eventual rebuild is going to be a nightmare with our lack of picks, but JBB might not even be around to see it.

JBB needs a McD-like calibre trade

 

[JTBF81]

We also don't have any prospects in the wings to come up and fill holes because they've traded any and all assets or have had poor draft classes the last few years.
They won't make a huge impact but ease the transition between cores or re-tools.

JBB has overpaid for a few players both via trades and contracts and I have really soured on him. Credit where credit is due, Hagel was a fantastic pick up, and obviously cap restraints suck but a good chunk of the signings recently are just passengers and not contributing much.

The eventual rebuild is going to be a nightmare with our lack of picks, but JBB might not even be around to see it.

JBB needs a McD-like calibre trade

Tampa has prospects that could be helpful if they reach their potential and are given a chance. Groshev, Robert, Goncalves, Thompson, Lileberg, Carlile, Huhtanen, Howard, Gauthier etc are players that could help fill gaps or holes, some as early as this season and definitely in coming ones. Tampa may not be filled with perceived blue chip for sure prospects(if there really is such a thing), but they have more than a.few candidates that could find success in the NHL.

 

[DFC]

Tampa has prospects that could be helpful if they reach their potential and are given a chance. Groshev, Robert, Goncalves, Thompson, Lileberg, Carlile, Huhtanen, Howard, Gauthier etc are players that could help fill gaps or holes, some as early as this season and definitely in coming ones. Tampa may not be filled with perceived blue chip for sure prospects(if there really is such a thing), but they have more than a.few candidates that could find success in the NHL.

Not nearly like we used to though. We aren't finding those gems anymore. JBB has a lot of strengths, but I dont see much evidence that drafting is one of them. I also think Al Murray's reputation is kind of overblown. We havent had a true late round gem since Yzerman left.

 

[The Gongshow]

Not nearly like we used to though. We aren't finding those gems anymore. JBB has a lot of strengths, but I dont see much evidence that drafting is one of them. I also think Al Murray's reputation is kind of overblown. We havent had a true late round gem since Yzerman left.

It was all the Yzerplan

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Not nearly like we used to though. We aren't finding those gems anymore. JBB has a lot of strengths, but I dont see much evidence that drafting is one of them. I also think Al Murray's reputation is kind of overblown. We havent had a true late round gem since Yzerman left.

Groshev looks like he can be that late round gem.

Carters first goal and Jarry flings one in. Hell of a goal scorers night.

I'm actually surprised this many people on here are looking for changes a quarter of the way through the season. Firing an assistant 23 games in won't do much. Firing Cooper would do more, but likely not in a good way. Cooper isn't the problem. Blashill won't be going anywhere until the off-season and we likely lose Halpern at that time too so things might change in terms of assistants anyhow.

In the meantime, the team sucks. The lines suck. The bottom six is a mess. Cirelli sucks. Sergachev sucks. Raddysh and Perbix pick their moments to suck, albeit Perbix much more frequently.

The list of players making an impact to put us where we are is rather short. We lack winger depth on this team. We have tweeners and centers playing wing and then when we are trailing, everything gets scrambled. I could see the argument there being on Cooper.

Tonight was embarrassing but I'm willing to journey further before throwing in the towel on the season. As someone mentioned, the days are gone of having those luxuries on the lower lines. It's just not there anymore. The small plays Palat, Gourde, Killorm used to make aren't there and their replacements are inferior except Hagel. De Haan I'm not a fan of. The team is a mess but I'd give them til late January.

If you told me at the beginning of the season that Hedman, Cernak, and Raddysh would be our best defenseman at this point, I would have laughed at you. But here we are. Everyone see's the problems

1) The Defensive structure is absolutely ass.
2) The consistency of the bottom 6 scoring is ass.

JJ letting in his 2 beachballs per game is manageable if those 2 issues weren't so prominent. Vasy can't solve either of those issues and the guy while probably can save 4 or 5 xGA per game, the other two issues just keep rearing its ugly head.

Like you said, we won't see a coaching change in any facet until the off season. This means that JBB needs to bite the bullet and make a move to shore up the defense first. We need another shutdown defenseman.

The team looks more tired than last years playoffs.

 

[The Gongshow]

Groshev looks like he can be that late round gem.


If you told me at the beginning of the season that Hedman, Cernak, and Raddysh would be our best defenseman at this point, I would have laughed at you. But here we are. Everyone see's the problems

1) The Defensive structure is absolutely ass.
2) The consistency of the bottom 6 scoring is ass.

JJ letting in his 2 beachballs per game is manageable if those 2 issues weren't so prominent. Vasy can't solve either of those issues and the guy while probably can save 4 or 5 xGA per game, the other two issues just keep rearing its ugly head.

Like you said, we won't see a coaching change in any facet until the off season. This means that JBB needs to bite the bullet and make a move to shore up the defense first. We need another shutdown defenseman.

The team looks more tired than last years playoffs.

W need a McDonagh calibre, shutdow defenseman that can play 20 minutes a night. Easier said than done, but that is the teams biggest need right now. Cirelli should be part of that trade.

Losing McD was a bigger blow than some people realize. Serg was never gonna be that strong on the defensive side of his game to really take over and Hedman is aging just as much as McD is.

 

[Renopucker]

I think we all agreed that the first period last night was either the best, or one of, this season. So how can one explain the rest of the game? Did Coop say "lay off the gas" or sit back? I severely doubt it.
Jarry floating one in was the capper, or should I say kick in the sack. BTW, I thought it was Raddysh's best game by far. And as usual, Ace played his Gourde-like heart out.

 

[Peacefool]

Uf such a dissapointing loss. Yeah i know turnovers.. Kuch, but he and Vasy are our best players on ice who are doing something, so Kuch turnovers-nevermind. But. Bench Perbix, call up Myers, let Perbix fight for his spot,make him earn his spot again

 

[JTBF81]

Not nearly like we used to though. We aren't finding those gems anymore. JBB has a lot of strengths, but I dont see much evidence that drafting is one of them. I also think Al Murray's reputation is kind of overblown. We havent had a true late round gem since Yzerman left.

Sure, many were either promoted as the team emerged from re-build to possible playoff contender, and then as it became clear they were entering their window/in it, Yzerman and JBB moved futures for hopeful success in the present. It's certainly not an uncommon approach when a team is going for titles, and in Tampa's case, it has paid off quite well. Most of the Yzerman and JBB trades have been excellent(Jeannot still tbd), and only Savard in recent memory was for a straight rental.

As far as draft picks, many of the names I mentioned, plus guys like Duke and others, will help determine the success of more recent draft classes. As far as diamonds in the rough, maybe not as many lately, although Huhtanen is looking better and better as.a last overall pick in terms of his progression.

The only areas where JBB has dropped the ball has been in some recent ufa signings(Sheary looks like a complete bust when there were other names out there like Sprong for example), and the bloated contracts he gave out right away to Serg, Cirelli, and Cernak. With the.numbers I thought they'd get, Tampa would've had another 2.5 or so in cap space and more flexibility to address the needed winger depth. Overall though, I think JBB has done a good job maintaining a balance between the.now and the future core guys, and given the nature of the cap the last 3 years, kept and added who he could.

With the cap set to rise significantly in the next few years, Tampa will be able to better address certain positions with higher quality ufas(not to mention promorions from within), and they'll still have several good years left with the current core. Age isn't a real issue yet, and despite this season not looking great so far(which I attribute a lot to the garbage system they have switched to defensively), the next few years still look bright for Tampa overall. Maybe they win another Cup with this main core, maybe not, but the job Yzerman/JBB/Coop has done and the success they've had is something only maybe a couple of other franchises wouldn't be envious of over the last decade.

 

[Tampa22]

Uf such a dissapointing loss. Yeah i know turnovers.. Kuch, but he and Vasy are our best players on ice who are doing something, so Kuch turnovers-nevermind. But. Bench Perbix, call up Myers, let Perbix fight for his spot,make him earn his spot again

I agree but I have my doubts. Remember the Sustr experiment.... Everybody see how disaster he was and coach keep trying with that traffic cone!