Value of: 10th overall pick

[Nocashstyle]

Coleman for 10 is a complete joke for NJ. Sign me up.

Infact, half of this list is a complete joke. Ryan McDonagh is 34 years old, and you have him grouped in with Ilya Sorokin, Tkachuk and Kaprizov? Connor? Bro.

Also, why isnt Markstrom on this list? They almost made it happen last year they could easily re-visit at the draft

If Connor/Tkachuk/Kaprizov is available for tenth overall, calgary out bids them at 9th over all

Yeah that’s an insane list.

But Markstrom is not a goalie that would fetch 10th OA.

Did you actually read this thread? There aren't a whole lot of Devil fans in it that are saying they would. Most of it is other teams fans offering the Devils goalies and Devil fans saying no.

I think they just want to continue to be condescending and refer to everyone as “bud.”

 

[HugeInTheShire]

He asked me what my point was and I told him with clarity. Pretty simple question and answer.

I guess, it was just an odd point to make. Zero reason to imply that Schneider wasn't worth the pick at the time, as he clearly was. With the benefit of hindsight we now know that the rest of the team wasn't even close to his level and his hips would betray him. There were not a lot of people thinking overpayment at the time, in fact the Oilers were believed to have offered 7th + for him but Vancouver wanted to send him east.

Definitely seems like you were either looking to start shit or really lack the ability to clearly communicate a point.

 

[Ainsy01]

Yeah that’s an insane list.

But Markstrom is not a goalie that would fetch 10th OA.



I think they just want to continue to be condescending and refer to everyone as “bud.”

I think they would do Markstrom and 27th overall (from VAN) for 10th overall to avoid the whole retention dilemma. There was clearly mutual interest as it was ALMOST done before the cheap ass owners in CGY nixxed it.

CGY has a very tough decision at the draft to go with Iginla, the feel-good pick, or the best player available by a slim margin in Catton.

Picking 9/10 would fire up the re-tool huge and make for a very very happy organization.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I think they would do Markstrom and 27th overall (from VAN) for 10th overall to avoid the whole retention dilemma. There was clearly mutual interest as it was ALMOST done before the cheap ass owners in CGY nixxed it.

CGY has a very tough decision at the draft to go with Iginla, the feel-good pick, or the best player available by a slim margin in Catton.

Picking 9/10 would fire up the re-tool huge and make for a very very happy organization.

Just because the Devils have or had interest, doesn’t mean they’re going to drop 17-19 spots in the draft for him. That’s a massive drop off. Markstrom did nothing to improve his value after the trade deadline, and whatever deal was agreed upon was when Fitzgerald was still trying to make the playoffs.

 

[Ainsy01]

Just because the Devils have or had interest, doesn’t mean they’re going to drop 17-19 spots in the draft for him. That’s a massive drop off. Markstrom did nothing to improve his value after the trade deadline, and whatever deal was agreed upon was when Fitzgerald was still trying to make the playoffs.

They traded their number 1 C and number 1, 2 D at the deadline - were people expecting their team play to improve? Cmon, it was designed that way.

New Jersey also fell off and missed the playoffs, they they still have incentive to improve.

The package they were reportedly offering is more valuable than that pick, is it not? Didnt Holtz just go 7th overall and play 82 games in the NHL ?

 

[TBF1972]

I think many NJ fans would agree with you. If there is a young prospect goalie that the team believes is the real thing, target that guy. Had the NJ GM not tipped his hand with his comments about "big game hunting" for a goalie maybe they could have done that. I think the problem is that the GM has made it clear he only wants a veteran "name" goalie. He hasn't done anything crazy yet in a trade so maybe nothing comes of it but he clearly is at a loss for NJ's goalies being so inconsistent the past few years. Some of that was circumstances and some of it was less than stellar planning.

could you give an example?

the once established enough aren't available and for others it would be an overpay.

if you really identified a target in the d+3 to d+5 range who isn't yet established in the nhl rank, you would target another asset/player with the pick and ask for that goalie as an add-on to your return.

 

[Nocashstyle]

They traded their number 1 C and number 1, 2 D at the deadline - were people expecting their team play to improve? Cmon, it was designed that way.

New Jersey also fell off and missed the playoffs, they they still have incentive to improve.

The package they were reportedly offering is more valuable than that pick, is it not? Didnt Holtz just go 7th overall and play 82 games in the NHL ?

He’s 34 years old and didn’t put up a single game above .900 in his last 11 games. That’s a concern.

 

[Ainsy01]

He’s 34 years old and didn’t put up a single game above .900 in his last 11 games. That’s a concern.

I don't see Jersey running it back without getting a goalie. They were close before, its the best lead at the moment.

Things change but I hope they figure it out.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I think they would do Markstrom and 27th overall (from VAN) for 10th overall to avoid the whole retention dilemma. There was clearly mutual interest as it was ALMOST done before the cheap ass owners in CGY nixxed it.

CGY has a very tough decision at the draft to go with Iginla, the feel-good pick, or the best player available by a slim margin in Catton.

Picking 9/10 would fire up the re-tool huge and make for a very very happy organization.

Flame fans keep bringing up the Devils interest in Markstrom last year, back when they had 3 shots at the playoffs with him. That is no longer the case, I don't think NJ is going to be willing now to overpay for him like they were when the were desperate to save the season last year.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I don't see Jersey running it back without getting a goalie. They were close before, its the best lead at the moment.

Things change but I hope they figure it out.

Again, sure, they may still work out a deal. That doesn’t mean it will involve the 10thOA.

If Fitz does deal the 10thOA for any deal involving Markstrom, I don’t think you would find a single happy Devils fan, but probably many ecstatic Flames fans. So that probably says something about the value you’re proposing.

 

[Ainsy01]

Again, sure, they may still work out a deal. That doesn’t mean it will involve the 10thOA.

If Fitz does deal the 10thOA for any deal involving Markstrom, I don’t think you would find a single happy Devils fan, but probably many ecstatic Flames fans. So that probably says something about the value you’re proposing.

So Holtz < 10OA?

I am genuinely curious

 

[Nocashstyle]

So Holtz < 10OA?

I am genuinely curious

At this point, yeah probably.

Whether it’s completely deserved or not, management does not appear to be big fans of Holtz at this point. His goals p/60 were actually pretty great iirc, but he was constantly buried on the bottom lines and not given many opportunities. He’s a flawed player in some aspects for sure, but he can flat out beat goalies cleanly. He just needs to have more opportunities to do it, and I’m not sure that will end up being with the Devils or not.

 

[Forge]

So Holtz < 10OA?

I am genuinely curious

By a lot

 

[Forge]

Again, sure, they may still work out a deal. That doesn’t mean it will involve the 10thOA.

If Fitz does deal the 10thOA for any deal involving Markstrom, I don’t think you would find a single happy Devils fan, but probably many ecstatic Flames fans. So that probably says something about the value you’re proposing.

I am never going to completely rule it out because I'm not the one making the decision and I can't speak for Fitz, but I'd be more open to the possibility of it happening if there was any real track record of a team moving a top 10 pick for a guy in his 30s. It just doesn't happen. And we basically have one instance of a team moving that level of pick for a goalie so we don't really have that either.

And it's not like this is the first time ever that a team could give a player + late first for a higher first, so we shouldn't be chasing an exception based on that. So I have a really hard time seeing it happening. It feels like Arrested Development memeing at this point with "Maybe it'll work for us...."

 

[Volica]

Flame fans keep bringing up the Devils interest in Markstrom last year, back when they had 3 shots at the playoffs with him. That is no longer the case, I don't think NJ is going to be willing now to overpay for him like they were when the were desperate to save the season last year.

I don't know if you saw the goalie market this summer, but it is about as barren as I can remember. Lots of busts, lots of backups. Not a lot of guys that can give you 55-65 games a season and play at a top 10 level.

With team like Colorado, Toronto and LA who *made* the playoffs and got sunk by below par goaltending (I know TO had Woll, who can't stay healthy and hasn't played 50 games in the league yet); the market for someone like Markstrom is likely not going to be particularly small.

Jersey had essentially 3 PPG players, including one that would have likely hit around 100 if he stayed healthy this year; they have one of the youngest and most exciting defensive groups in the league. They dominated shots, and on paper should have won most games just based on the chances they generate. On the flip side, their goaltending sunk the season. No one showed up. If you guys don't think Fitzgerald doesn't feel the pressure from his group to get his guys to the next step after taking a massive one back from the prior year... I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

As fans we tend to fall into this mystery box thing. Take the pick. Take the pick.
But these GMs have shelf lives, they don't get 5-10 years to sit on picks, make them, and enjoy. They have to produce results. This'll be year 5 of his tenure, he has 1 playoff appearance. He has 4 top 4 picks from the past 7 years on his team already, his team took a step back from the year before (because of goaltending). I don't think he has another 2 seasons to figure this thing out if he gets another 890%, 3+GAA year.

 

[Forge]

As fans we tend to fall into this mystery box thing. Take the pick. Take the pick.
But these GMs have shelf lives, they don't get 5-10 years to sit on picks, make them, and enjoy. They have to produce results. This'll be year 5 of his tenure, he has 1 playoff appearance. He has 4 top 4 picks from the past 7 years on his team already, his team took a step back from the year before (because of goaltending). I don't think he has another 2 seasons to figure this thing out if he gets another 890%, 3+GAA year.

And yet GMs still don't move these picks for players like this

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I don't know if you saw the goalie market this summer, but it is about as barren as I can remember. Lots of busts, lots of backups. Not a lot of guys that can give you 55-65 games a season and play at a top 10 level.

With team like Colorado, Toronto and LA who *made* the playoffs and got sunk by below par goaltending (I know TO had Woll, who can't stay healthy and hasn't played 50 games in the league yet); the market for someone like Markstrom is likely not going to be particularly small.

Jersey had essentially 3 PPG players, including one that would have likely hit around 100 if he stayed healthy this year; they have one of the youngest and most exciting defensive groups in the league. They dominated shots, and on paper should have won most games just based on the chances they generate. On the flip side, their goaltending sunk the season. No one showed up. If you guys don't think Fitzgerald doesn't feel the pressure from his group to get his guys to the next step after taking a massive one back from the prior year... I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

As fans we tend to fall into this mystery box thing. Take the pick. Take the pick.
But these GMs have shelf lives, they don't get 5-10 years to sit on picks, make them, and enjoy. They have to produce results. This'll be year 5 of his tenure, he has 1 playoff appearance. He has 4 top 4 picks from the past 7 years on his team already, his team took a step back from the year before (because of goaltending). I don't think he has another 2 seasons to figure this thing out if he gets another 890%, 3+GAA year.

Fitz absolutely feels the pressure, this doesn't mean he's going to make a trade simply to make one. He'll likely kick the tires on Markstrom as well as a lot of other goalies via trade.

I understand your desire to want NJ to believe that it absolutely needs to be Markstrom and they'll pay the same price as last season to get him. This simply isn't likely to be the case. When NJ was allegedly offering this years 1st, it was when they still had hopes of making the playoffs. That didn't happen, so it effects Markstrom's value negatively.

There will be a plethora of goalies available in trade, Fitz will likely make his deal but it's unlikely to involve 10th OA for Markstrom even coupled with a lower 1st.

 

[Nocashstyle]

I don't know if you saw the goalie market this summer, but it is about as barren as I can remember. Lots of busts, lots of backups. Not a lot of guys that can give you 55-65 games a season and play at a top 10 level.

With team like Colorado, Toronto and LA who *made* the playoffs and got sunk by below par goaltending (I know TO had Woll, who can't stay healthy and hasn't played 50 games in the league yet); the market for someone like Markstrom is likely not going to be particularly small.

Jersey had essentially 3 PPG players, including one that would have likely hit around 100 if he stayed healthy this year; they have one of the youngest and most exciting defensive groups in the league. They dominated shots, and on paper should have won most games just based on the chances they generate. On the flip side, their goaltending sunk the season. No one showed up. If you guys don't think Fitzgerald doesn't feel the pressure from his group to get his guys to the next step after taking a massive one back from the prior year... I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

As fans we tend to fall into this mystery box thing. Take the pick. Take the pick.
But these GMs have shelf lives, they don't get 5-10 years to sit on picks, make them, and enjoy. They have to produce results. This'll be year 5 of his tenure, he has 1 playoff appearance. He has 4 top 4 picks from the past 7 years on his team already, his team took a step back from the year before (because of goaltending). I don't think he has another 2 seasons to figure this thing out if he gets another 890%, 3+GAA year.

I don’t disagree with most of what you’re saying…although injuries also played just as big of a part in the regression this season as goaltending did.

Either way, yeah UFA class is barren. There are still two younger goalies (contract considerations aside) in Saros and Ullmark that are likely available. Potentially a more budget friendly reclamation project if Gustavsson gets traded. I don’t know what Fitz should do, clearly rolling into next season with Jake Allen and Schmid/Daws is a huge risk. But I also know that a deal centered around Makrstrom for 10 OA seems like incredibly poor value for the Devils. That doesn’t mean the deal has to center around 10 OA for it to get done.

 

[My3Sons]

could you give an example?

the once established enough aren't available and for others it would be an overpay.

if you really identified a target in the d+3 to d+5 range who isn't yet established in the nhl rank, you would target another asset/player with the pick and ask for that goalie as an add-on to your return.

As noted, a guy like Askarov or maybe Wallstedt or Cossa or whoever is on the cusp. A guy you see as developing into a starter. If you trust your scouting and the guy warrants it I'd trade the 10th for a guy like that. Someone who will have years of cost control and has his best days ahead of him for years to come. I'm not suggesting that's an easy trade to make but it's obviously a better use of trading the pick than even a guy like Saros who if you like him is still going to command a brutal contract just as Hellebuyck did.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

My point is I would not use the 10th pick to get a goalie.

I don’t understand this narrative. Schneider was a good goalie and, in a vacuum, the value was good. Lou just refused to acknowledge that the team was nowhere near competitive and instead kept the team in purgatory for years because Schneider’s play was great enough to win games, but the rest of the team was not good to win enough games. A 27 year old prime Schneider for the 10th overall on this team would a great trade.

If there was a 2013, 27 year old, Cory Schneider on the trade market right now, the Devils would 1000000% trade the 10th overall pick for him.

That trade by Lou in terms of value was tremendous for NJD. From 2013-2017 Cory Schneider was a top 3 goaltender in the NHL.

The trade just didn't make sense for where the rest of the Devils team was at. An old, aging roster with little to no talent.

With where the Devils are at now, this trade would be EXACTLY what they need. I would kill to have 2013-2017 Schneider as this teams goaltender for the next 5 years.

Coleman for 10 is a complete joke for NJ. Sign me up.

Infact, half of this list is a complete joke. Ryan McDonagh is 34 years old, and you have him grouped in with Ilya Sorokin, Tkachuk and Kaprizov? Connor? Bro.

Also, why isnt Markstrom on this list? They almost made it happen last year they could easily re-visit at the draft

If Connor/Tkachuk/Kaprizov is available for tenth overall, calgary out bids them at 9th over all

Yeah that’s an insane list.

But Markstrom is not a goalie that would fetch 10th OA.

Looks like some people are struggling with their reading comprehension once again

As noted, a guy like Askarov or maybe Wallstedt or Cossa or whoever is on the cusp. A guy you see as developing into a starter. If you trust your scouting and the guy warrants it I'd trade the 10th for a guy like that. Someone who will have years of cost control and has his best days ahead of him for years to come. I'm not suggesting that's an easy trade to make but it's obviously a better use of trading the pick than even a guy like Saros who if you like him is still going to command a brutal contract just as Hellebuyck did.

It's honestly a pretty simple trade to make if the other team is willing to do it. The question you have to ask your scouts is - what do you value more? Askarov/Wallstedt/Cossa or one of the players that will be available to us with this 10th overall pick?

If the answer is one of the goalies, then trade the pick if the other organization values the 10th pick higher than their young goaltender!

 

[TBF1972]

As noted, a guy like Askarov or maybe Wallstedt or Cossa or whoever is on the cusp. A guy you see as developing into a starter. If you trust your scouting and the guy warrants it I'd trade the 10th for a guy like that. Someone who will have years of cost control and has his best days ahead of him for years to come. I'm not suggesting that's an easy trade to make but it's obviously a better use of trading the pick than even a guy like Saros who if you like him is still going to command a brutal contract just as Hellebuyck did.

i don't think any of this former 1st round picks is available unless they sign their starter long term or they fail in their first attempt at the nhl level. you don't invest a lot of draft capital, develop the player and then trade him before giving him a chance in your own organisation.

maybe knight after his troubles and being a relative high cap hit. but he also comes with plenty of risk.

 

[Joseph Nathan]

If there was a 2013, 27 year old, Cory Schneider on the trade market right now, the Devils would 1000000% trade the 10th overall pick for him.

That trade by Lou in terms of value was tremendous for NJD. From 2013-2017 Cory Schneider was a top 3 goaltender in the NHL.

The trade just didn't make sense for where the rest of the Devils team was at. An old, aging roster with little to no talent.

With where the Devils are at now, this trade would be EXACTLY what they need. I would kill to have 2013-2017 Schneider as this teams goaltender for the next 5 years.







Looks like some people are struggling with their reading comprehension once again



It's honestly a pretty simple trade to make if the other team is willing to do it. The question you have to ask your scouts is - what do you value more? Askarov/Wallstedt/Cossa or one of the players that will be available to us with this 10th overall pick?

If the answer is one of the goalies, then trade the pick if the other organization values the 10th pick higher than their young goaltender!

Wild aren’t trading wallstedt devils fans my goodness

As noted, a guy like Askarov or maybe Wallstedt or Cossa or whoever is on the cusp. A guy you see as developing into a starter. If you trust your scouting and the guy warrants it I'd trade the 10th for a guy like that. Someone who will have years of cost control and has his best days ahead of him for years to come. I'm not suggesting that's an easy trade to make but it's obviously a better use of trading the pick than even a guy like Saros who if you like him is still going to command a brutal contract just as Hellebuyck did.

As noted there’s not a chance like ever wild are trading wallstedt! Nashville isn’t trading Askarov either. You’re living in fantasy land if you think wild are going to make wallstedt available. Lol

 

[Joseph Nathan]

If there was a 2013, 27 year old, Cory Schneider on the trade market right now, the Devils would 1000000% trade the 10th overall pick for him.

That trade by Lou in terms of value was tremendous for NJD. From 2013-2017 Cory Schneider was a top 3 goaltender in the NHL.

The trade just didn't make sense for where the rest of the Devils team was at. An old, aging roster with little to no talent.

With where the Devils are at now, this trade would be EXACTLY what they need. I would kill to have 2013-2017 Schneider as this teams goaltender for the next 5 years.







Looks like some people are struggling with their reading comprehension once again



It's honestly a pretty simple trade to make if the other team is willing to do it. The question you have to ask your scouts is - what do you value more? Askarov/Wallstedt/Cossa or one of the players that will be available to us with this 10th overall pick?

If the answer is one of the goalies, then trade the pick if the other organization values the 10th pick higher than their young goaltender!

Just like your list you made without considering the needs or reasons of others, wild aren’t trading their franchise G for any picks. They will literally ask for Hughes

 

[My3Sons]

i don't think any of this former 1st round picks is available unless they sign their starter long term or they fail in their first attempt at the nhl level. you don't invest a lot of draft capital, develop the player and then trade him before giving him a chance in your own organisation.

maybe knight after his troubles and being a relative high cap hit. but he also comes with plenty of risk.

Yeah, that's why I acknowledged it's not an easy trade to make. I accept there is no single obvious answer for trading for a goalie. If there was I'm confident they would have done it already. If the only available trade is Markstrom or Saros for 10th overall I'm passing and just signing Broissot for a couple of years. NJ really has two goalies already in Allen and one of Daws/Schmid but the goal is to have Daws/Schmid in Utica next season. My thought is if you had two tandem guys in NJ play about 35 games each and had Daws and Schmid split maybe 15-20 games between them that would be fine.

 

[My3Sons]

Wild aren’t trading wallstedt devils fans my goodness


As noted there’s not a chance like ever wild are trading wallstedt! Nashville isn’t trading Askarov either. You’re living in fantasy land if you think wild are going to make wallstedt available. Lol

Hence my point about it's not an easy trade to make. I was only talking about the hypothetical approach of trading a pick for an established veteran goalie versus a guy who hasn't established himself yet. My apologies if you took it as some sort of actual trade offer. I don't claim to know anything specific about any of those names just the obvious ones that come to mind.