Value of: 10th overall pick

[Petes2424]

If they’re moving the pick, Saros should be the target, assuming he’s available. They need to settle the position before they end up a questioned contender every year because nobody trusts their goaltending. Just get it over with.

 

[Double Dion]

if Fitz does any form of a trade of 10th overall for Markstrom, even with retention, getting another player, or late pick back, I will start to question him as GM.

Don't you think he should already be questioned? If I was the owner and my GM thought it was a good idea to get scratch ticket goaltending behind a young blueline when we are supposed to be in a contention window he'd have a new job in player development teaching the AHL kids to take a faceoff.

 

[Forge]

Don't you think he should already be questioned? If I was the owner and my GM thought it was a good idea to get scratch ticket goaltending behind a young blueline when we are supposed to be in a contention window he'd have a new job in player development teaching the AHL kids to take a faceoff.

The goaltending they had put together the best regular season in team history just the season prior.

I absolutely understand the idea of not pressing into overspending on the position going into last season. It went bad, and now he's trying to rectify it.

It's not like he's the only person and the devils were the only team that that didn't make big goaltending moves. They are the main team that had it blow up on them.

 

[Double Dion]

The goaltending they had put together the best regular season in team history just the season prior.

I absolutely understand the idea of not pressing into overspending on the position going into last season. It went bad, and now he's trying to rectify it.

It's not like he's the only person and the devils were the only team that that didn't make big goaltending moves. They are the main team that had it blow up on them.

Fitzgerald became the GM in the middle of the 2019-20 season. That's 5 seasons where he's been at the helm. The Devils are the only team in the league that has been bottom 8 in GSAE in 4 of those 5 seasons. The Sharks and Oilers have had better goaltending. The idea that this was just one "oops" is pretty off. It's more like shooting blindly at a target and hitting it randomly once.

 

[Forge]

Fitzgerald became the GM in the middle of the 2019-20 season. That's 5 seasons where he's been at the helm. The Devils are the only team in the league that has been bottom 8 in GSAE in 4 of those 5 seasons. The Sharks and Oilers have had better goaltending. The idea that this was just one "oops" is pretty off. It's more like shooting blindly at a target and hitting it randomly once.

Well, you're not counting 19-20 when he took over in the middle of january. Thats insane.

So he's had 4 years. 20-21, 21-22, 22-23, 23-24.

He signed Corey Crawford, who then retired I believe for mental health reasons. He signed Jonathan Bernier, who's hip blew up in a game and retired him. He signed VV, which worked and helped produce the best regular season in team history. Vitek was a reason for that. It's very natural that they would run that back.

He's actively attacked the problem. I'm not sure how you can avoid the bad luck of Bernier and I won't fault him for the process there.

I guess maybe don't target old goalies and take Markstrom off the possible acquisition list would be the best bet.

See if you can get someone younger who won't end up retiring on you

 

[Nocashstyle]

Ohh good! Double Dion, our resident NJD expert is back!

 

[Double Dion]

Ohh good! Double Dion, our resident NJD expert is back!

You sure you're not a Rags fan? You sure act like one.

 

[Xirik]

You sure you're not a Rags fan? You sure act like one.

I choked on my tea.

Talk about double burn.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Huh? I think I have only said it in this one. It's a common sense guess....it is public knowledge that your GM thinks highly of Markstrom and the 2 teams had an agreement in place. It's only logical to assume that the talks will continue now.

Most draft experts say talent falls after picks 10 to 15 range maybe even after pick 12 if true Calgary would have to give more don't you think to move into spot 10.....Markstrom's value imo is more in a second round imo maybe a contingency attached to make it go to a first and I think most would say rumors that were going around were insane at deadline.....Plus didn't his production drop and he got hurt as well after deadline?

 

[Smitty426]

NJ fans can say no all they want, but I bet the 2 teams have been & will continue talking about something similar.

10 OA? No chance whatsover

NJ fans can say no all they want, but I bet the 2 teams have been & will continue talking about something similar.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Most draft experts say talent falls after picks 10 to 15 range maybe even after pick 12 if true Calgary would have to give more don't you think to move into spot 10.....Markstrom's value imo is more in a second round imo maybe a contingency attached to make it go to a first and I think most would say rumors that were going around were insane at deadline.....Plus didn't his production drop and he got hurt as well after deadline?

The biggest injury was his pride. He was carrying the team to a WC spot and was asked to be moved, told he was traded and then told it fell through. He was put through an emotional wringer, and NJ fans jumped on how his play took a dip - on a team that was shipping out 2 of his best DMen.
The guy was still a top 10 goalie in the league. There will be more teams looking to upgrade their goalie situation and only 2 or 3 legit starters available.
I understand hesitation on NJ fans part due to past letdowns, but he instantly upgrades the area your team most needs. He would have gotten you guys to the playoffs this season, and he would again nextyear.
Maybe you're closer on the value and it'll be the 2025 1st. Maybe I am overvaluating JM.
But no one can ignore THE FACT that NJ was highly interested in him just a few months ago and they still have the need. The 2 teams will be in discussion, and if the talks didn't start with JM (with retention)+ Van 1st, then I'd be very disappointed.
The only thing I have taken offence to are the posters claiming he's a crap goalie and won't help.

 

[TBF1972]

Yeah right, maybe in your dreams.

we are close. he just has to replace the vancouver 1st with the calgary 1st.

 

[Nocashstyle]

The biggest injury was his pride. He was carrying the team to a WC spot and was asked to be moved, told he was traded and then told it fell through. He was put through an emotional wringer, and NJ fans jumped on how his play took a dip - on a team that was shipping out 2 of his best DMen.
The guy was still a top 10 goalie in the league. There will be more teams looking to upgrade their goalie situation and only 2 or 3 legit starters available.
I understand hesitation on NJ fans part due to past letdowns, but he instantly upgrades the area your team most needs. He would have gotten you guys to the playoffs this season, and he would again nextyear.
Maybe you're closer on the value and it'll be the 2025 1st. Maybe I am overvaluating JM.
But no one can ignore THE FACT that NJ was highly interested in him just a few months ago and they still have the need. The 2 teams will be in discussion, and if the talks didn't start with JM (with retention)+ Van 1st, then I'd be very disappointed.
The only thing I have taken offence to are the posters claiming he's a crap goalie and won't help.

Literally no one is claiming he’s a crap goalie and won’t help. What you’re receiving pushback on is that you’re somehow reasoning that just because the Devils have shown interest in Markstrom, they’re going to center a deal around the 10th overall pick for him. The concern with him being 34 years old is that…he is getting old. What happens when players, especially goalies, get old? Their play can drop off a cliff. Consider that Markstrom had a poor year last year, played well for most of this season, and then took a total nosedive his last 11 games. What has any of that done to alleviate potential concerns of his aging? His value has only decreased since the initial talks. I’m sure the Devils are still interested, but that doesn’t mean Markstrom is going to return a high valued asset in the 10th OA.

 

[Smitty426]

The biggest injury was his pride. He was carrying the team to a WC spot and was asked to be moved, told he was traded and then told it fell through. He was put through an emotional wringer, and NJ fans jumped on how his play took a dip - on a team that was shipping out 2 of his best DMen.
The guy was still a top 10 goalie in the league. There will be more teams looking to upgrade their goalie situation and only 2 or 3 legit starters available.
I understand hesitation on NJ fans part due to past letdowns, but he instantly upgrades the area your team most needs. He would have gotten you guys to the playoffs this season, and he would again nextyear.
Maybe you're closer on the value and it'll be the 2025 1st. Maybe I am overvaluating JM.
But no one can ignore THE FACT that NJ was highly interested in him just a few months ago and they still have the need. The 2 teams will be in discussion, and if the talks didn't start with JM (with retention)+ Van 1st, then I'd be very disappointed.
The only thing I have taken offence to are the posters claiming he's a crap goalie and won't help.

Nothing wrong here except the return. Ullmark is a '25 1st top 10 protected, work down from there. Retention not needed if a 1st rnd pick is required.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

While NJ fans might not like it, I could see the Markstrom deal get done.
Would love to know what the deal was back a couple months ago.

I can't imagine a trade that involves NJD's 10OA pick unless it's a pretty big package. Markstrom retained plus our late first probably isn't enough. It probably still needs another decent asset added to it.

I'm more inclined to believe that Flames/NJD may circle back to make a trade, but it'll be a lesser trade than something that involves 10OA.

I think if a Markstrom - NJD deal does get done (I actually think it is likely) then I could see it being Holtz for Markstrom retained. 1 for 1.

If Markstrom to NJ doesnt happen.... I could see Fitzgerald going very, very aggresively at Boston for Swayman.

10th overall + Holtz + Casey + more.....

And before Boston fans come screaming down my throat about how Swayman is staying and it's Ullmark that's going.... Just go look at recent history of player/team relationships after going to arbitration. More often than not, that player is out of the organization shortly thereafter.... There were rumors of a Swayman extension happening a few months back. What happened?

 

[Andre Palot]

I think if a Markstrom - NJD deal does get done (I actually think it is likely) then I could see it being Holtz for Markstrom retained. 1 for 1.

If Markstrom to NJ doesnt happen.... I could see Fitzgerald going very, very aggresively at Boston for Swayman.

10th overall + Holtz + Casey + more.....

And before Boston fans come screaming down my throat about how Swayman is staying and it's Ullmark that's going.... Just go look at recent history of player/team relationships after going to arbitration. More often than not, that player is moved out of the organization shortly thereafter.... There were rumors of a Swayman extension happening a few months back. What happened?

No goalie is worth that much.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

No goalie is worth that much.

Exactly. Which is why if NJD wants him, they'll have to overpay. Which, they are in a decent position to do so.

 

[Andre Palot]

Exactly. Which is why if NJD wants him, they'll have to overpay. Which, they are in a decent position to do so.

People will disagree but I personally hope the Devils don't go this route. Too much of a reactionary move and I think the pieces we will need to give up will be simply far too rich. The cons outweigh the pros. Then again, I'm very bullish on Casey.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

People will disagree but I personally hope the Devils don't go this route. Too much of a reactionary move and I think the pieces we will need to give up will be simply far too rich. The cons outweigh the pros. Then again, I'm very bullish on Casey.

I also am very bullish on Casey, however I am just as bullish on Swayman. Think Swayman is a future HOFer

 

[Andre Palot]

I also am very bullish on Casey, however I am just as bullish on Swayman. Think Swayman is a future HOFer

I see it like this.

Personally I still believe Holtz can be a late bloomer. He scored 16 goals this past season and has all the potential to be, on a team that actually trusts him to put up production to be a 25-30 goal scorer on the regular.

That's gonna be missed production should you trade him.

Casey has been compared to Luke Hughes and even if he's a fraction of that, that's going to be production that's hard to replace, especially as the Devils will need defensive depth in the future.

The top ten pick, again, this draft class is supposed to be fairly deep. The Devils would be delighted to see someone like a Zeev Buium or a Konsta Helenius fall to them.

Swayman is a fantastic goaltender, don't get me wrong, I'm just not sold on selling the farm for a goaltender, which is traditionally, in modern times the most risky and volatile position in the game.

Again, I don't disagree with your position that it probably would take those pieces to get Swayman. I simply don't think any goaltender is worth all of those pieces. Especially when the Devils

> currently have a lackluster bottom 6 and need depth more than ever.

> when their defensive core is currently suspect with Siegenthaler regressing and Hamilton about to come back from a major injury. The latter will surely need protected minutes in the beginning because of that.

So yeah, I appreciate the enthusiasm but I'd like to think we could upgrade in goal without trading more quality assets, ruin our prospect pool and diminish what current depth we have.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

The biggest injury was his pride. He was carrying the team to a WC spot and was asked to be moved, told he was traded and then told it fell through. He was put through an emotional wringer, and NJ fans jumped on how his play took a dip - on a team that was shipping out 2 of his best DMen.
The guy was still a top 10 goalie in the league. There will be more teams looking to upgrade their goalie situation and only 2 or 3 legit starters available.
I understand hesitation on NJ fans part due to past letdowns, but he instantly upgrades the area your team most needs. He would have gotten you guys to the playoffs this season, and he would again nextyear.
Maybe you're closer on the value and it'll be the 2025 1st. Maybe I am overvaluating JM.
But no one can ignore THE FACT that NJ was highly interested in him just a few months ago and they still have the need. The 2 teams will be in discussion, and if the talks didn't start with JM (with retention)+ Van 1st, then I'd be very disappointed.
The only thing I have taken offence to are the posters claiming he's a crap goalie and won't help.

His play dipped significantly after everything went sideways in Calgary, but that isn't IMO what has lowered JM's value.
The fact the when NJ pursued him so heavily was when they were still in playoff contention. They would have gotten 3 shots with him, now it's 2.

He's a good goalie for sure, but his value has dropped so I can't see NJ giving up 10th OA for him even fully retained.

 

[treple13]

The biggest injury was his pride. He was carrying the team to a WC spot and was asked to be moved, told he was traded and then told it fell through. He was put through an emotional wringer, and NJ fans jumped on how his play took a dip - on a team that was shipping out 2 of his best DMen.
The guy was still a top 10 goalie in the league. There will be more teams looking to upgrade their goalie situation and only 2 or 3 legit starters available.
I understand hesitation on NJ fans part due to past letdowns, but he instantly upgrades the area your team most needs. He would have gotten you guys to the playoffs this season, and he would again nextyear.
Maybe you're closer on the value and it'll be the 2025 1st. Maybe I am overvaluating JM.
But no one can ignore THE FACT that NJ was highly interested in him just a few months ago and they still have the need. The 2 teams will be in discussion, and if the talks didn't start with JM (with retention)+ Van 1st, then I'd be very disappointed.
The only thing I have taken offence to are the posters claiming he's a crap goalie and won't help.

Imo, Markstrom easily had his best year as a Flames and was better this year than his top 3 Vezina finish year. He had less support and was stronger.

Obviously as a Flames fan, I'd love to somehow parlay him into the 10th pick. But obviously if I'm a Devils fan I wouldn't do that even as a move up with the Vancouver pick.

I have no idea what other assets New Jersey would want with Markstrom that could bring the value gap (that we'd also be willing to give).

 

[dj Mahoney]

Mrazek , Reichel , Phillips

 

[Forge]

Obviously as a Flames fan, I'd love to somehow parlay him into the 10th pick. But obviously if I'm a Devils fan I wouldn't do that even as a move up with the Vancouver pick.

I have no idea what other assets New Jersey would want with Markstrom that could bring the value gap (that we'd also be willing to give).

It's tricky because I wouldn't be surprised if this is pretty binary for Fitz - that pick is either on the table or it's not in a trade for Markstrom. If the trade is centered on Markstrom / Van first for #10, he's not going to get the most valuable (and likely not the "best") asset in that trade. He's just not. The #10 pick is going to be considered at least a full tier higher grade asset than both of those he's getting back. He's going to be adding nickels and pennies to even the value to get where he needs it to be.

And like I mentioned before, the "value" isn't that far off with just that baseline, so its not like he's going to be able to add a lot there.

Arizona traded 27, 34, 45 for pick 11. It's not quite dead even, but the devils pick being 10 and Vancouver's being 29 or whatever is pretty similar. So 34 & 45 would be the approximate value for Markstrom in this scenario, and if the cost of Markstrom was something like that (ostensibly two seconds) I'd be fine with that.

Hell, there's a world where the Devils can trade from 10 to 14 with San Jose, get their second back (#42) and ship that and second next year (whichever is better between devils and Winnipeg's) and I'd be in on that all the time.

So like, I really don't think that there's a ton of value to really extricate after the Markstrom / Vancouver pick headline that would entice me and be worth it for the flames. Let's just say for giggles that the Canucks were to offer up Dallas' second to push the deal through. As a devils fan, Markstrom + Vancouver 1 + Dallas 2 is a really good offer for #10 in a vacuum. But does it really entice me any more to trade #10? TBH, not really.

 

[JRichard]

Most draft experts say talent falls after picks 10 to 15 range maybe even after pick 12 if true Calgary would have to give more don't you think to move into spot 10.....Markstrom's value imo is more in a second round imo maybe a contingency attached to make it go to a first and I think most would say rumors that were going around were insane at deadline.....Plus didn't his production drop and he got hurt as well after deadline?

There is no drop after 10. Its more like after 15. Teams sitting in that range might receive nice offers.