Injury Report: 10/19 Burns

[Dicdonya]

Its not a consussion, it's his mouth. Gums are quite soft when you mash them with the end of a hockey stick and like to chew on your mouthpiece instead of wear it.

 

[Juxtaposer]

As much as the team needs Burns, if it's a concussion (which sounds very likely at this point), I'd rather wait until he's 100% for a good while instead of going day-to-day.

Well, that's what DW is sounding like. They aren't going to rush him back due to panic over a small losing streak.

 

[Barrie22]

Its not a consussion, it's his mouth. Gums are quite soft when you mash them with the end of a hockey stick and like to chew on your mouthpiece instead of wear it.

and a mouth problem would not be a worry for the future (which wilson is keeping burns out of the line up in fear of more problems).

obviously any injure has the possibility of re-injuring the part of the body (but that would be a seperate injury from this one.

if they are worried about an injury that could possible come back and be worse in the future it is a concussion (and thats what wilson is sound like is the problem now).

 

[Dicdonya]

and a mouth problem would not be a worry for the future (which wilson is keeping burns out of the line up in fear of more problems).

obviously any injure has the possibility of re-injuring the part of the body (but that would be a seperate injury from this one.

if they are worried about an injury that could possible come back and be worse in the future it is a concussion (and thats what wilson is sound like is the problem now).

That's not true at all. Worry for the future does not mean concussion. Having gums split open and worked on can worry you as well because it's extremely easy to get another stick in the mouth and split the gums open again. If you don't let them heal fully and then don't take proper precautions to guard them against further hits he could be right back out of the lineup game one. Not to mention wounds in the mouth can get infected easily so you could "worry" about that happening as well.

 

[Led Zappa]

That's not true at all. Worry for the future does not mean concussion. Having gums split open and worked on can worry you as well because it's extremely easy to get another stick in the mouth and split the gums open again. If you don't let them heal fully and then don't take proper precautions to guard them against further hits he could be right back out of the lineup game one. Not to mention wounds in the mouth can get infected easily so you could "worry" about that happening as well.

Agreed.

 

[FSS]

It's obvious that this isn't "just" a gums/teeth injury, there is something else involved. If it had been simply gums/teeth he'd have been back playing with a cage until it heals fully.

Could it be a concussion? Sinus infection? Who knows...but this is not just a gums/teeth issue.

 

[sr228]

That's not true at all. Worry for the future does not mean concussion. Having gums split open and worked on can worry you as well because it's extremely easy to get another stick in the mouth and split the gums open again. If you don't let them heal fully and then don't take proper precautions to guard them against further hits he could be right back out of the lineup game one. Not to mention wounds in the mouth can get infected easily so you could "worry" about that happening as well.

Ya, if it's something involving his head (mouth, nose, facial bones, etc.) there's a whole lot that could keep him out for an extended time aside from a concussion.

I have no idea what is actually wrong with him, and I'm not going to speculate, but I'm really, really happy he's getting close to being 100% healthy. He's been missed.

 

[Dicdonya]

It's obvious that this isn't "just" a gums/teeth injury, there is something else involved. If it had been simply gums/teeth he'd have been back playing with a cage until it heals fully.

Could it be a concussion? Sinus infection? Who knows...but this is not just a gums/teeth issue.

Im just glad to hear he could be back Thursday. Hertl and Thornton will be happy to get their man back I'm sure.

 

[SactoShark]

My mouth has good days and bad days too.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Im just glad to hear he could be back Thursday. Hertl and Thornton will be happy to get their man back I'm sure.

Pavs will be thrilled to get Wingels back as well ..

 

[Dicdonya]

Pavs will be thrilled to get Wingels back as well ..

Heck yeah I hope they also bump nieto back up with pavs when wingels goes back down, see if they can get that early season chemistry going again.

 

[hockeyball]

Heck yeah I hope they also bump nieto back up with pavs when wingels goes back down, see if they can get that early season chemistry going again.

They really should send Nieto down for awhile.

 

[Juxtaposer]

They really should send Nieto down for awhile.

Nieto will be fine when his line gets some ********* forechecking.

I know I've stated this a couple of times, but I'd love to see Burns with someone other than Thornton for a few games. See what he could do with Marleau and Couture, or with Nieto and Pavelski. With Wingels playing as well as he is, I'm loathe to remove him from Thornton's line.

Anyway, I think the whole team will bounce back when Burns gets back into the lineup.

 

[Alwalys]

Over on wtc I believe someone keeps saying it's a neck issue. Cracked vertebrae or somesuch, from whiplash.

 

[hockeyball]

Nieto will be fine when his line gets some ********* forechecking.

I know I've stated this a couple of times, but I'd love to see Burns with someone other than Thornton for a few games. See what he could do with Marleau and Couture, or with Nieto and Pavelski. With Wingels playing as well as he is, I'm loathe to remove him from Thornton's line.

Anyway, I think the whole team will bounce back when Burns gets back into the lineup.

He just looks like hes hit the wall, which is expected. I'd send him down for a bit, he really could use some AHL time this year, I don't want to Goc the kid.

 

[Juxtaposer]

He just looks like hes hit the wall, which is expected. I'd send him down for a bit, he really could use some AHL time this year, I don't want to Goc the kid.

I wouldn't mind sending him to the AHL. But honestly his production drying up is the result of a poorly constructed line. Neither him nor Pavelski are good forechecker, and obviously Havlat isn't either. They need Wingels (or Torres or Burns) to be effective. When Burns comes back, I want Nieto to get a couple of games with Pavelski and one of Burns or Wingels just to see if he can "get back on track". If he doesn't look better, then he can go to the AHL.

 

[Dicdonya]

I wouldn't mind sending him to the AHL. But honestly his production drying up is the result of a poorly constructed line. Neither him nor Pavelski are good forechecker, and obviously Havlat isn't either. They need Wingels (or Torres or Burns) to be effective. When Burns comes back, I want Nieto to get a couple of games with Pavelski and one of Burns or Wingels just to see if he can "get back on track". If he doesn't look better, then he can go to the AHL.

This. He definitely has earned a chance to try to pick up where he left off on pavs line. If he falters then sure send him down.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I wouldn't mind sending him to the AHL. But honestly his production drying up is the result of a poorly constructed line. Neither him nor Pavelski are good forechecker, and obviously Havlat isn't either. They need Wingels (or Torres or Burns) to be effective. When Burns comes back, I want Nieto to get a couple of games with Pavelski and one of Burns or Wingels just to see if he can "get back on track". If he doesn't look better, then he can go to the AHL.

Yeah, I am not buying this. Pavelski is getting paid way to much, and playing against way too easy competition, to not be able to win without a great forechecker. They need to find other ways to win. Because if forechecking is so essential to them, someone will find a way to shut it down come playoffs, and then line will be neutered. He, with the coach's help (but also in real-time), needs to find a way to utilize Nieto and the third forward to produce.

I expect that giving Pavelski two third-liners should be more than enough for him to dominate other teams' third lines.

 

[do0glas]

Yeah, I am not buying this. Pavelski is getting paid way to much, and playing against way too easy competition, to not be able to win without a great forechecker. They need to find other ways to win. Because if forechecking is so essential to them, someone will find a way to shut it down come playoffs, and then line will be neutered. He, with the coach's help (but also in real-time), needs to find a way to utilize Nieto and the third forward to produce.

I expect that giving Pavelski two third-liners should be more than enough for him to dominate other teams' third lines.

He's either with a rookie and a ghost or two 4th liners.

You give him ONE third liner (wingels). They dominate. It's not because he's a forechecker. He does forecheck, but he still generates clean entries with speed and crashes the net with consistency.

He hasn't had Kennedy long enough to gel yet, so hopefully either burns comes back or Kennedy starts doing more for that line.

 

[OrrNumber4]

He's either with a rookie and a ghost or two 4th liners.

You give him ONE third liner (wingels). They dominate. It's not because he's a forechecker. He does forecheck, but he still generates clean entries with speed and crashes the net with consistency.

He hasn't had Kennedy long enough to gel yet, so hopefully either burns comes back or Kennedy starts doing more for that line.

So, yes, Nieto is a rookie. But he clearly has NHL skills.

Again, it isn't like he's been facing great competition. I mean, he's lost matchups (two of 'em) to Brad Richardson. IIRC, that was when it was Pavelski + Wingels and McCarthy or Pavelski with Havlat and Nieto. Even with McCarthy being a fourth-liner and Havlat recovering from injury, there is more than enough talent there to win easy matchups.

 

[do0glas]

So, yes, Nieto is a rookie. But he clearly has NHL skills.

Again, it isn't like he's been facing great competition. I mean, he's lost matchups (two of 'em) to Brad Richardson. IIRC, that was when it was Pavelski + Wingels and McCarthy or Pavelski with Havlat and Nieto. Even with McCarthy being a fourth-liner and Havlat recovering from injury, there is more than enough talent there to win easy matchups.

See joe Thornton with hertl and Hamilton or hertl and Sheppard to see how any player will generally need a better thought out line to truly win matchups

Havlat...is terrible. I'm sorry. Maybe last year he helps pavs. But he's doing almost nothing right now. The only games he even looked somewhat engaged was with couture.

Nieto has nhl skills but with pavs and wingels was not really taking any of the hard stuff. Lots of rebound clean up and late zone puck retrieval. With havlat not really engaged at all and nieto being as small as he is, I feel it's asking him to play too far above himself to affect his matchups offensively.

There should be matchups that he can win with lower QoT, but the centers or playmakers that tangibly boost their line mates aren't all that common. Pavs does need help to win match ups, but he also doesn't live or die by them. I think we give pavs too much credit at times. He's still underpaid in this market though.

Will be interesting to see his numbers from the majority of a season at 3C though.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yeah, I am not buying this. Pavelski is getting paid way to much, and playing against way too easy competition, to not be able to win without a great forechecker. They need to find other ways to win. Because if forechecking is so essential to them, someone will find a way to shut it down come playoffs, and then line will be neutered. He, with the coach's help (but also in real-time), needs to find a way to utilize Nieto and the third forward to produce.

I expect that giving Pavelski two third-liners should be more than enough for him to dominate other teams' third lines.

I agree that I expect more from Pavelski. He has not been good at even strength this season. However, he's been on some poorly constructed lines. I think he has another level and he'll get there. I don't think it's a coincidence that he slowed down a ton when Wingels was taken away from him, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Hertl and Thornton's dry spell at evens spanned almost exactly between when Burns got hurt and when Wingels was moved to the top-line.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I agree that I expect more from Pavelski. He has not been good at even strength this season. However, he's been on some poorly constructed lines. I think he has another level and he'll get there. I don't think it's a coincidence that he slowed down a ton when Wingels was taken away from him, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Hertl and Thornton's dry spell at evens spanned almost exactly between when Burns got hurt and when Wingels was moved to the top-line.

I actually don't think that Wingels has even been that good up front. Thornton and Hertl also "didn't do great" against some good, if not top, competition.

Just take Pavelski in the Vancouver games. I'll grant that Richardson is perhaps a borderline third liner. But Kassian is barely an NHLer, and the third guy was so unmemorable that I can't even remember his name. Pavelski-McCarthy-Wingels or Pavelski-Nieto-(cold)Havlat should be able to win that match-up hands-down.

But, the complaint I've always had against the Sharks is their lack of versatility. Good players find ways to adapt and win. Players like Thornton and Pavelski have the tools to be able to find multiple ways to win.
Which, incidentally, is why I like players like Burns and Havlat. I see more of that in them.

 

[hockfan1991]

See joe Thornton with hertl and Hamilton or hertl and Sheppard to see how any player will generally need a better thought out line to truly win matchups

Havlat...is terrible. I'm sorry. Maybe last year he helps pavs. But he's doing almost nothing right now. The only games he even looked somewhat engaged was with couture.

Nieto has nhl skills but with pavs and wingels was not really taking any of the hard stuff. Lots of rebound clean up and late zone puck retrieval. With havlat not really engaged at all and nieto being as small as he is, I feel it's asking him to play too far above himself to affect his matchups offensively.

There should be matchups that he can win with lower QoT, but the centers or playmakers that tangibly boost their line mates aren't all that common. Pavs does need help to win match ups, but he also doesn't live or die by them. I think we give pavs too much credit at times. He's still underpaid in this market though.

Will be interesting to see his numbers from the majority of a season at 3C though.

I said he could break 70 as 3c. With his top line pp unit. That was before knowing Torres would be out havlat wouldn't look great and his best forwards on his line have been a rookie I thought would be in the ahl and wingels who I thought had no business playing in the top 9. Pleasant suprises either way he still has a shot. Especially if burns come back. Burns will have as much impact on his line with hertl and Thornton as he will for pavs. Everyone gets put where they belong.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I actually don't think that Wingels has even been that good up front. Thornton and Hertl also "didn't do great" against some good, if not top, competition.

I disagree entirely. Wingels has been perhaps our most consistent forward all season. Where he goes, scoring goes, and it's not because he's the most 'skilled' guy on his line

Just take Pavelski in the Vancouver games. I'll grant that Richardson is perhaps a borderline third liner. But Kassian is barely an NHLer, and the third guy was so unmemorable that I can't even remember his name. Pavelski-McCarthy-Wingels or Pavelski-Nieto-(cold)Havlat should be able to win that match-up hands-down.

But, the complaint I've always had against the Sharks is their lack of versatility. Good players find ways to adapt and win. Players like Thornton and Pavelski have the tools to be able to find multiple ways to win.
Which, incidentally, is why I like players like Burns and Havlat. I see more of that in them.

I agreed that Pavelski needs to be better, didn't I? I'm just saying when his line gets a good forechecker back I think he'll improve. I do want to see Pavelski do better though. After all, he is a $6M man now.

And yes, I agree about versitality. These are not things that I'm denying...