GDT: 10/18 LA Kings @ Minnesota Wild 5 PM on FSW, FSN

[Choralone]

If Forbort is a good player this season and beyond, I don't give a crap how high he was drafted or how long he took to develop. The past can't be undone and we can't redo the 2010 draft.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yup, looking very similar to Gravel's development curve. Not something I expect out of a mid first round pick.

We all knew he was a project though, even as a 1st.

Forbort was drafted in 2010. His draft is approaching 7 years. He'll be turning 25 in March, and he still hasn't figured out how to use his gangly 6'4" frame.

People aren't spoiled by Doughty. People are afraid that the Kings burned a high pick on yet another Jeff Schultz or Keaton Ellerby, tall, awkward defensemen who were way too timid to stay at this level.

The Kings have nothing to lose playing him now. Might as well showcase him if things don't work out. He definitely hasn't developed into the player they thought they were getting when they selected him.

I don't disagree but let's not ignore the roster that was blocking him even if he were ready. Who would he have forced off until last year, Martinez? Last year he should have been playing over Ehrhoff and that was a mistake in my eyes not getting him and Gravel in.

You can't over-ripen prospects. I don't see the issue. Maybe he wasn't ready for the first five years, but he looks like he fits in wonderfully now. Arguably been our third best d-man behind Doughty and Muzzin despite being set up with anchors.

 

[Basilisk]

What kind of a procedure is not surgery?

What kind of non-surgical procedure fixes a tear?

 

[Fishhead]

What kind of a procedure is not surgery?

Yoga? Faith Healing? Maybe something with his core?

 

[Trolfoli]

What kind of non-surgical procedure fixes a tear?

Heard about a brand of chiropractic for soft tissue work a while ago. Wonder if it could be something like that where they adjust the soft tissue to get it to heal better.

If Forbort is a good player this season and beyond, I don't give a crap how high he was drafted or how long he took to develop. The past can't be undone and we can't redo the 2010 draft.

Great if Forbort turns into an NHL'er. My point was people should stop *****ing about the McNabb trade because the Kings didn't have anyone on the roster to fill that hole at the time and they still don't have someone to replace McNabb's minutes in the top 4.

Also mid first round isn't really where you want to take projects.

Edit: Sorry, I'm grumpy today. Reached my limit on stupid for the day by 9am. Not that anyone on here is being stupid. Just I'm apparently in a bad mood.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Did we have a chance in hell to trade for PK Subban?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Did we have a chance in hell to trade for PK Subban?

Considering that Shea Weber went the other way, no.

 

[Choralone]

Heard about a brand of chiropractic for soft tissue work a while ago. Wonder if it could be something like that where they adjust the soft tissue to get it to heal better.



Great if Forbort turns into an NHL'er. My point was people should stop *****ing about the McNabb trade because the Kings didn't have anyone on the roster to fill that hole at the time and they still don't have someone to replace McNabb's minutes in the top 4.

Also mid first round isn't really where you want to take projects.

Edit: Sorry, I'm grumpy today. Reached my limit on stupid for the day by 9am. Not that anyone on here is being stupid. Just I'm apparently in a bad mood.

No worries. And FWIW, I agree with you about the McNabb trade. A GM can only make moves that are available to him.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Considering that Shea Weber went the other way, no.

And the $9 million in cap space they would've needed to fit him.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Did we have a chance in hell to trade for PK Subban?

Yeah, Doughty would go the other way. Makes no sense.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yeah, Doughty would go the other way. Makes no sense.

I'm sure they would've accepted Kopitar as an alternative.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I'm sure they would've accepted Kopitar as an alternative.

I'm sorry, but Kopitar for Subban is a terrible trade for the Kings. Sure we have a superstar defense, but zero offensive punch. We become Nashville at that point. Kopitar is a better hockey player than PK by quite he margin.

Now, if Subban could have been had for Carter+, then maybe you take a hard look at that. But Montreal wasn't asking for a forward, by all accounts, so it's moot.

 

[Choralone]

I'm sorry, but Kopitar for Subban is a terrible trade for the Kings. Sure we have a superstar defense, but zero offensive punch. We become Nashville at that point. Kopitar is a better hockey player than PK by quite he margin.

Now, if Subban could have been had for Carter+, then maybe you take a hard look at that. But Montreal wasn't asking for a forward, by all accounts, so it's moot.

Woosh!

 

[Holden Caulfield]

We all knew he was a project though, even as a 1st.



I don't disagree but let's not ignore the roster that was blocking him even if he were ready. Who would he have forced off until last year, Martinez? Last year he should have been playing over Ehrhoff and that was a mistake in my eyes not getting him and Gravel in.

You can't over-ripen prospects. I don't see the issue. Maybe he wasn't ready for the first five years, but he looks like he fits in wonderfully now. Arguably been our third best d-man behind Doughty and Muzzin despite being set up with anchors.

You most certainly can over ripen players. Theres lots of players that where ruined because they never got their shot. Its just not as "visible" as rushing. And people like excuse it as "they were never good enough" which isnt neccessarily true. Yes the kopitars and doughtys will aleays rise to top. But for most the difference between long career and minor league washout is razor thin. Getting the right opportunity at the right time is the difference.

 

[USE Fi]

You most certainly can over ripen players. Theres lots of players that where ruined because they never got their shot. Its just not as "visible" as rushing. And people like excuse it as "they were never good enough" which isnt neccessarily true. Yes the kopitars and doughtys will aleays rise to top. But for most the difference between long career and minor league washout is razor thin. Getting the right opportunity at the right time is the difference.

I would be interested to know what players you are saying that got over over ripen?
Have never known this to happen to a NHL level player.

 

[Fishhead]

I would be interested to know what players you are saying that got over over ripen?
Have never known this to happen to a NHL level player.

One player I think could have been more is Linden Vey. He never got a shot with the Kings because of strong center depth, had he come along earlier I think he definitely would have gotten a shot. He had a really good year in 12-13 with TT and Pearson, some great chemistry. He was ready to make the jump, but with Kopitar, Carter, Richards, and Stoll coming off a cup win, he wasn't going to find a place here.

Then that F'd up situation happened with his dad which would take a toll on anyone.

 

[Reaper45]

Vey, Kozun, Azevedo and all the other runts the Kings have drafted were never going to make the team. They could've been in Manchester for one season or 4 and it wouldn't have made the difference. Oscar Moller on the other hand is a kid who should've spent more time in the minors to start.

 

[bob77]

I'd like to add, if you're upset about the McNabb trade, that anger should be focused at Forbort. A first round pick that took until he had to pass through waivers to make the team. If he developed in 2-3 years to a bottom pairing defender there's probably no need to trade for McNabb in the first place.

Forbort made the team last year as well when they could have just sent him down

 

[Legionnaire]

I mean, it's hard for me to think Forbort and not think Tarasenko. That pick was just a major error all around.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I mean, it's hard for me to think Forbort and not think Tarasenko. That pick was just a major error all around.

Especially when Tarasenko is one of the league's top goal scorers, an area in which the Kings need a lot of help in and continuously struggle to develop.

 

[Herby]

The worst thing about Forbort (and Teubert also) is the Kings traded up specifically to take them. It's one thing if you are picking and it comes to you and maybe you aren't crazy about someone but you just take them and hope.

The Kings targeted both those players, meaning they heavily scouted both and felt they were worth giving up assets for. That is the most disappointing thing.

 

[kingsfan28]

I mean, it's hard for me to think Forbort and not think Tarasenko. That pick was just a major error all around.

Many passed for this reason:

Considered the top Russian-born talent in the 2010 draft, Tarasenko slipped into the mid-first round due to concerns about his contract status in the KHL with Sibir Novosibirsk, the team coached by his father.
Read more at http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/vladimir_tarasenko/#4z2xfEl7EX1dAhh5.99

 

[Legionnaire]

Especially when Tarasenko is one of the league's top goal scorers, an area in which the Kings need a lot of help in and continuously struggle to develop.

Exactly. I can only imagine how much better this team would be. Drafting system players has not worked out very well. We were still building then and adding whatever top end talent we could was still very important. Forbort never had that potential.

The worst thing about Forbort (and Teubert also) is the Kings traded up specifically to take them. It's one thing if you are picking and it comes to you and maybe you aren't crazy about someone but you just take them and hope.

The Kings targeted both those players, meaning they heavily scouted both and felt they were worth giving up assets for. That is the most disappointing thing.

Their record of drafing Dmen in the first round quite frankly sucks. They even had Bogosian on the radar. Yikes.

Most anyone who watched Forbort in his draft year saw a guy who would max out at a number 3. Same thing goes for Tuebert (And don't even get me started on not drafting Karlsson or Myers)
Finding guys who fit the system is great and all but that doesn't trump skill. It's much easier to get a skilled player to learn to play in a system than it is to get a lesser skilled player to be able to compete at the NHL level.

Many passed for this reason:

True. However IIRC, he had stated his desire to play in the NHL still if he couldn't get out of his contract.

That was kind of the thing too though; he was one of those guys who normally we would have targeted because they slid due to one reason or another. I think that kind of strategy is even more important with the team now since we need to maximize our pick value since we're up against the cap. Hopefully we don't make that mistake again.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

While we're at it, we passed on Jamie Benn 4-5 times as well. He could REALLY have helped us!

 

[Legionnaire]

Haha. Well...I'm talking more about our draft philosophy which has not been all that successful. Benn should have fit our mould. He was a late riser making RedLine Report and should have been on people's radar.