Post-Game Talk: 1/23: Rangers visit the zoo

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Heh, if you want to get the most of Hagelin/Cally on the same line; you need a guy like Brandon Dubinsky centering that line. A guy who can play smash mouth along the boards. That isn't Richards game. You want to get the most out of Richards? You need two big guys who have hands and vision.

Put kreider and zucc with him and have hag step nash line again and move callys slow ***- on the third line where he belongs

 

[pld459666]

Nice to see what a team with a real GM, a real scouting staff, a real development system, a real coach, a real defense, and a real captain look like. Rangers are totally outclassed in every aspect of this game against a team that is superior in every way. Half the Rangers lineup doesn't even crack this Blues roster.

this this so much this

Love the teams response to Backes butt-ending Kreider in the face.

Lovely reply.

 

[pld459666]

I wonder why some of you even 'cheer' for this team.
If you don't like them, there's 29 others to support

can't speak for anyone else, but I have never rooted for a player.

I root for the team.

Players come and go.

This group of guys as a team are not good.

a little 15 game run didn't and doesn't change that....at all

 

[Kakko]

can't speak for anyone else, but I have never rooted for a player.

I root for the team.

Players come and go.

This group of guys as a team are not good.

a little 15 game run didn't and doesn't change that....at all

The team is made up of the management, coaching staff and players

Some people here actively hate all of those

They're not supporting the team. They're supporting the logo, and the brand

 

[pld459666]

The team is made up of the management, coaching staff and players

Some people here actively hate all of those

They're not supporting the team. They're supporting the logo, and the brand

I am supporting the brand and the logo.

Management, Coaching staff and most of the players are crap.

I actively hate most of those three components.

I have no faith in the management staff. Gorton included

I do not believe that AV can do here with this limited team what eh could not do in Vancouver with a much better roster.

And the players? Please, don't get me started. a large majority are physically soft and mentally weak.

But in my 35+ years of watching the team and the sport, one thing is certain. They all come and go.

The sooner this set of mis-fits go, the better and that goes for Management, Coaching and players.

 

[NYROrtsFan]

This was simply a game where we got pushed around a by a much bigger, better, and more physical team.

Nothing we can do but take it...

We need to get bigger and more physical in general because we'll just never beat teams like this or Boston.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

This team cannot trade Callahan unless the return involves a replacement. A potential 2nd liner, probably a young guy who has that same motor. And we don't have a chance in hell of bringing that back. MAYBE if we gave both Cally and G to a single team, but again, who's our 1st pairing Right Defensemen? Stralman?

So, we sell our UFAs for picks and iffy prospects, and then hit the UFA market? That's the worst possible idea. I'd rather resign the both of them, even at an over-payment.

Of course you would, because this post/ideology is really nothing more than fanboy garbage.

To brush aside the overpayment, Callahan's injury issues, and the toll that will have on his effectiveness into his 30's is pretty darn ignorant.

Almost as ignorant as saying that trading Callahan and Girardi for "iffy prospects" is the worst thing possible when its quite clear that dithering on the decision and either:

1. Having them walk for nothing in the summer or
2. Massively overpaying them and having their performances slip throughout the contract

are quite clearly the 2 worst outcomes. You'll find other players to like, dont worry.

 

[Ail]

Also the idea that a replacement for Callahan needs to come back if they trade him is ridiculous. You can make a case for Girardi but Callahan is absolutely replaceable and at this point an overrated captain riding on past accomplishments. He's a valuable player but they can replace him. Particularly with someone younger and durable.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Also the idea that a replacement for Callahan needs to come back if they trade him is ridiculous. You can make a case for Girardi but Callahan is absolutely replaceable and at this point an overrated captain riding on past accomplishments. He's a valuable player but they can replace him. Particularly with someone younger and durable.

Agreed. Even as rentals, I think this team can pretty easily get back a young roster player, a prospect and/or a pick for these guys.

Im ready to take a leap of faith in another direction. These guys have been pieces of the core for several years now with limited success outside of 2011-2012 -- for a team that played a COMPLETELY different type of game (a type of game, incidentally, that these guys excelled at).

 

[OverTheCap]

Devils, Columbus, Islanders, Winnipeg, St. Louis, Boston, Pittsburgh when they had half of Wilkes-Barre playing - we have had difficulty with these types of teams all year (and some of that aren't even that talented) because they can forecheck and are good along the boards.

The top teams in the league have a good balance of skill, grit, two-way play, offensive ability, and physicality throughout the lineup. Sather has done a 180 since 2012 and has focused on acquiring one-dimensional skill players. Forechecking and board play is fundamental in this league and it's frustrating how quickly this strength became a weakness.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Devils, Columbus, Islanders, Winnipeg, St. Louis, Boston, Pittsburgh when they had half of Wilkes-Barre playing - we have had difficulty with these types of teams all year (and some of that aren't even that talented) because they can forecheck and are good along the boards.

The top teams in the league have a good balance of skill, grit, two-way play, offensive ability, and physicality throughout the lineup. Sather has done a 180 since 2012 and has focused on acquiring one-dimensional skill players. Forechecking and board play is fundamental in this league and it's frustrating how quickly this strength became a weakness.

People, including Sather, took those fundamentals for granted when he started changing the face of the team with the Nash trade and the coaching change.

The pursuit of skill and offense should've been an add-on -- it wound up being a face lift.

 

[NYRKindms]

This was simply a game where we got pushed around a by a much bigger, better, and more physical team.

Nothing we can do but take it...

We need to get bigger and more physical in general because we'll just never beat teams like this or Boston.

i couldn't help but think what we were seeing last night is just foreshadowing to the playoffs is the rangers make it.

It will be like last year. Rangers make the playoffs as they have had to play playoff-esque hockey most of the season to get in. The other teams then up their intensity to playoff hockey and the rangers can't match it. The teams that don't forecheck that hard during the season all of a sudden turn it on and get physical for the playoffs and the rangers who were able to handled those teams to some extent during the regular season are once again getting out muscled and physically punished by larger / stronger teams.

If I am coaching against the Rangers I would simply tell my team to go out and bang their top players at every turn. it is the easiest way to win against this team as they have no push back against that type of play. When Zucca is your most physical player with the take no **** attitude your team is in trouble. Imagine if boyle had a tenth of that attitude. Krieder also. He can smash people and really take the body but he seems to want to play like a gentleman. You would think that after he took a butt end to the face he would wise up that the rest of the league is going to put you through the boards or take you out if you want to be a difference maker.

 

[OverTheCap]

People, including Sather, took those fundamentals for granted when he started changing the face of the team with the Nash trade and the coaching change.

The pursuit of skill and offense should've been an add-on -- it wound up being a face lift.

Sather sees things in black and white and fails to see that there is a grey area. It's as if he felt the only options were being a gritty, shot-blocking, forechecking team or a skilled, speedy finesse team without realizing that there can be a happy medium between the two.

 

[pld459666]

I keep seeing guys refer to the 2011-12 season like that was sustainable.

It wasn't.

The one dimensional players we have now we had then as well, just the dimension that that team had was defensive.

They were atrocious offensively and got every break imaginable that year.

We really need to stop looking at that season as anything other than what it was which is an abberation in the grand scheme of things.

When you have never been that good pre or post, it's an indication that that season was an outlier and not indicative of who the Rangers really were or are.

Dolan and the fan base bought into the "contender" status lock stock and barrell which granted Sather a few more years to fail at constructing a true contender.

 

[aufheben]

That team was not only better offensively, it was laughably better defensively. It's not fair to call that season an aberration when Sather let go 1/2 it's forwards in the offseason. Actually, it's a pretty meaningless statement to say it was unsustainable when we went into '12-13 with a very different group of forwards. Just my opinion.

 

[OverTheCap]

I keep seeing guys refer to the 2011-12 season like that was sustainable.

It wasn't.

The one dimensional players we have now we had then as well, just the dimension that that team had was defensive.

They were atrocious offensively and got every break imaginable that year.

We really need to stop looking at that season as anything other than what it was which is an abberation in the grand scheme of things.

When you have never been that good pre or post, it's an indication that that season was an outlier and not indicative of who the Rangers really were or are.

Dolan and the fan base bought into the "contender" status lock stock and barrell which granted Sather a few more years to fail at constructing a true contender.

If you are referring to my posts, then you missed the point. In 2011-12, we had lots of two-way players and physicality but not necessarily enough talent or skill. Today, we have some players who are adept at passing the puck, and some inconsistent players who show flashes of brilliance skillwise, but not enough players with pushback or the ability to battle along the boards. Most good teams have a balance of both and Sather seems to think it's one or the other.

 

[pld459666]

That team was not only better offensively, it was laughably better defensively. It's not fair to call that season an aberration when Sather let go 1/2 it's forwards in the offseason.

was not sustainable.

every fathomable break that could have gone our way that season did.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Jesus we weren't great but we lost 2-1 against a top 5 team in the league coming off an ass kicking. Can we stop with the melodramatic ******** like we lost 5-0. I missed the first period, but St. Louis didn't get many more good chances than us, they just made us pay. Game could have gone either way.

Some sanity on this board

 

[aufheben]

was not sustainable.

every fathomable break that could have gone our way that season did.

Well, my philosophy is that good teams make their own luck. I'm not saying they would have finished 1st again, but they still would have been a team to beat in the East. That team worked their ***** off every night, of course they got a lot of breaks. Whether they earned them or not is a matter of opinion I guess.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

was not sustainable.

every fathomable break that could have gone our way that season did.

And what is your evidence for it not being sustainable besides you thinking it wasn't sustainable?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

was not sustainable.

every fathomable break that could have gone our way that season did.

Maybe that team should've been given another season to see if they can sustain it.

Because, quite frankly, brainiacs like you and Sather look like idiots right now considering the team has actually taken a few steps backwards.

 

[pld459666]

If you are referring to my posts, then you missed the point. In 2011-12, we had lots of two-way players and physicality but not necessarily enough talent or skill. Today, we have some players who are adept at passing the puck, and some inconsistent players who show flashes of brilliance skillwise, but not enough players with pushback or the ability to battle along the boards. Most good teams have a balance of both and Sather seems to think it's one or the other.

See, I disagree here.

I don't think we had lots of 2-way players.

I think we had alot of defensive minded players that played a defensive game very well.

I also disagree that we were all that physical.

However, if you mean that we could take a pounding as opposed to dishing them out, yeah, I agree that we were stiff to play against.

I look back on that season and I am still amazed that we were able to hang onto as many wins as we did while being hemmed up in our own zone for minutes at a time.

I never believed that that was a winning formula. I knew then and believe it to remain true now that it was never a sustainable formula for winning games.

taking a one goal lead and turtling as a defensive posture is not a formula for sustained success in the NHL.

Just isn't.

 

[Callagraves]

Of course you would, because this post/ideology is really nothing more than fanboy garbage.

To brush aside the overpayment, Callahan's injury issues, and the toll that will have on his effectiveness into his 30's is pretty darn ignorant.

Almost as ignorant as saying that trading Callahan and Girardi for "iffy prospects" is the worst thing possible when its quite clear that dithering on the decision and either:

1. Having them walk for nothing in the summer or
2. Massively overpaying them and having their performances slip throughout the contract

are quite clearly the 2 worst outcomes. You'll find other players to like, dont worry.

I disagree. over paying a player is treated like the worst thing in the world here, but what exactly are we afraid of? sather not having enough cap space to kill this team with another declining UFA? if it's space required to keep our rfa players, we'll have it, and if we need more, there's plenty of dead weight to trim.

as for finding a replacement 50+point winger who is trusted and relied upon in every situation, I'm all ears. hit me with some names.

 

[aufheben]

Maybe that team should've been given another season to see if they can sustain it.

Because, quite frankly, brainiacs like you and Sather look like idiots right now considering the team has actually taken a few steps backwards.

Yeah, exactly.

 

[Bluenote13]

People, including Sather, took those fundamentals for granted when he started changing the face of the team with the Nash trade and the coaching change.

The pursuit of skill and offense should've been an add-on -- it wound up being a face lift.

The pursuit of skill came from lack of offense, and you're right, he chose a 'do over' instead of tweaking what he had. Looks like he built that '11 team over a few years, that was all his patience could take. I don't think Slats has the patience to think in intricacies. He's an old timer who I believe walks the black or white line, no grey areas. Stubborn some might say.

Sather sees things in black and white and fails to see that there is a grey area. It's as if he felt the only options were being a gritty, shot-blocking, forechecking team or a skilled, speedy finesse team without realizing that there can be a happy medium between the two.

Exactly what I came to say. I watched the Kings/Ducks last night, two well balanced teams that can hurt you with any line cause they loaded up on guys that know what to do when the play comes to them.

Certain teams get too caught up in a particular skill set. And what can make it worse is loading up on that skillset without balancing it out.

BTW, I hope you all got a good look at Backes last night, he played the same role I've been saying Chris Kreider would end up playing, and so far so good