Post-Game Talk: 1/23: Rangers visit the zoo

[Blueshirt Believer]

Are people really suggesting that? Phrasing it that way is not exactly accurate in representing the flux of the situation. Although it is hard to trust Sather's decisions when the lure is a 'anything can happen' playoff run, in no way should the Rangers make Callahan untouchable. There are various factors involved, and this is only January. Things could be quite different as the trade deadline approaches.

Look, I want Cally gone. But not because he is a bad player. I think if he gets traded to a cup contender, he is going to be a major cog in their run.

But, he simply does not fit with what AV wants to build this team towards: an uptempo puck possession team. A couple guys don't fit for that matter, not just Cally.

 

[Callagraves]

Heh, if you want to get the most of Hagelin/Cally on the same line; you need a guy like Brandon Dubinsky centering that line. A guy who can play smash mouth along the boards. That isn't Richards game. You want to get the most out of Richards? You need two big guys who have hands and vision.

I don't know if I agree or not. Richards and Cally tend to have chemistry, and Cally and Hags have historically worked well together, but I think Hags has been dragging that line down like a weight.

I expect I'll get burnt to the ground for this, but swap the centers on the 1st and 2nd lines. Let Richards pivot Nash and Kreider, and put Stepan back with Hags and Cally, where he played most of last year.

It should rejuvenate the lines, and get Stepan away from the other teams top pairings for a bit to build his confidence back up

 

[ltsthinaz]

THANK YOU! FINALLY! Someone else sees the ice as an issue.

Of course. Look at the power play and compare tonight with, say, the game in Toronto. Here it's bouncing over stick, there, beautiful plays and puck in the back of the net.

And I'd also want to go back to the Zuc-Pouliot-Brassard combo as the first unit with Richards and McD. The Step/Nash/Kreider unit doesn't mesh as well, nor do they forecheck as well, even though they're bigger.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

I don't know if I agree or not. Richards and Cally tend to have chemistry, and Cally and Hags have historically worked well together, but I think Hags has been dragging that line down like a weight.

I expect I'll get burnt to the ground for this, but swap the centers on the 1st and 2nd lines. Let Richards pivot Nash and Kreider, and put Stepan back with Hags and Cally, where he played most of last year.

It should rejuvenate the lines, and get Stepan away from the other teams top pairings for a bit to build his confidence back up

I've never seen any real chemistry between the two of them. I've seen Cally get some opportunistic goals from time to time paired with Richards but thats about it. Sometimes they get some decent forechecking pressure(But thats more Hags/Cally than Richards).

But I will agree with you that Hags is the worst player on that line atm.

I don't see Richards clicking with either Nash/Krieder. Richards doesn't work the boards all that well. Stepan, who isn't dominating on the wall, is far more serviceable along the boards. He definitely helps Krieder/Nash at times along the wall. Richards is also slower than Step.

 

[Callagraves]

Are people really suggesting that? Phrasing it that way is not exactly accurate in representing the flux of the situation. Although it is hard to trust Sather's decisions when the lure is a 'anything can happen' playoff run, in no way should the Rangers make Callahan untouchable. There are various factors involved, and this is only January. Things could be quite different as the trade deadline approaches.

That's about what a pending UFA will command.

I think people are expecting a return that Callahan would command if he were signed, even on a shorter contract. But he'd be a rental. We're not going to get anything back that's going to make losing him not sting.

This team cannot trade Callahan unless the return involves a replacement. A potential 2nd liner, probably a young guy who has that same motor. And we don't have a chance in hell of bringing that back. MAYBE if we gave both Cally and G to a single team, but again, who's our 1st pairing Right Defensemen? Stralman?

So, we sell our UFAs for picks and iffy prospects, and then hit the UFA market? That's the worst possible idea. I'd rather resign the both of them, even at an over-payment. We got capspace with the DZ trade, and Richards will be bought out (god only knows what we'll do without him. Brassard in the top six,ugh), so we won't exactly be pressed for space.

I don't mean to rant at you in particular, but the shortsightedness around here makes Glen Sather look like an evil genius with a master plan.

 

[Callagraves]

I've never seen any real chemistry between the two of them. I've seen Cally get some opportunistic goals from time to time paired with Richards but thats about it. Sometimes they get some decent forechecking pressure(But thats more Hags/Cally than Richards).

But I will agree with you that Hags is the worst player on that line atm.

I don't see Richards clicking with either Nash/Krieder. Richards doesn't work the boards all that well. Stepan, who isn't dominating on the wall, is far more serviceable along the boards. He definitely helps Krieder/Nash at times along the wall. Richards is also slower than Step.

Richards is miserable along the boards, but has some good work behind the net. With guys the size of Kreider and Nash, there SHOULD be enough support there to maintain a decent forecheck. "Should" doesn't go too far though. Richards is better with the puck than Stepan is though, and I think he would create some room for Nash and Kreids to take advantage of.

Stepan is at his best when he's physically engaged, pissed off and cocky. Not his personality, but he's got it in him. Hags and Step tend to bring that out in him. Ideally, I'd have an older Miller centering that line (I think he'll be a Dubi 2.0), but we've got some time before that's an option.

 

[trilobyte]

That's about what a pending UFA will command.

I think people are expecting a return that Callahan would command if he were signed, even on a shorter contract. But he'd be a rental. We're not going to get anything back that's going to make losing him not sting.

This team cannot trade Callahan unless the return involves a replacement. A potential 2nd liner, probably a young guy who has that same motor. And we don't have a chance in hell of bringing that back. MAYBE if we gave both Cally and G to a single team, but again, who's our 1st pairing Right Defensemen? Stralman?

So, we sell our UFAs for picks and iffy prospects, and then hit the UFA market? That's the worst possible idea. I'd rather resign the both of them, even at an over-payment. We got capspace with the DZ trade, and Richards will be bought out (god only knows what we'll do without him. Brassard in the top six,ugh), so we won't exactly be pressed for space.

I don't mean to rant at you in particular, but the shortsightedness around here makes Glen Sather look like an evil genius with a master plan.

No problem, Callagraves. I value your posts and always read them.

My whole idea is simply that we do not know yet what Callahan might return. It is fine to surmise and postulate, but there may be a GM out there drunk on the thoughts of what adding a player like Callahan, who I love, would do for his team. Steals of deals happen, have always happened. Pants have been dropped, pockets have been picked.

I'm not for getting rid of Callahan based on the wishes of a coach. I would prefer it be from some astute dealing by a GM who knows that the front needs a big talented player.
If the deal is not advantageous, it does not occur. That statement alone is so full of ambiguity and subjectivity that I realize it does not clarify a thing.

 

[ltsthinaz]

That's about what a pending UFA will command.

I think people are expecting a return that Callahan would command if he were signed, even on a shorter contract. But he'd be a rental. We're not going to get anything back that's going to make losing him not sting.

This team cannot trade Callahan unless the return involves a replacement. A potential 2nd liner, probably a young guy who has that same motor. And we don't have a chance in hell of bringing that back. MAYBE if we gave both Cally and G to a single team, but again, who's our 1st pairing Right Defensemen? Stralman?

So, we sell our UFAs for picks and iffy prospects, and then hit the UFA market? That's the worst possible idea. I'd rather resign the both of them, even at an over-payment. We got capspace with the DZ trade, and Richards will be bought out (god only knows what we'll do without him. Brassard in the top six,ugh), so we won't exactly be pressed for space.

I don't mean to rant at you in particular, but the shortsightedness around here makes Glen Sather look like an evil genius with a master plan.

Don't disagree with you. Callahan hasn't been great lately, but he and Girardi are not the biggest problems on this team, which I don't think is that bad a team. Whether or not to resign them next year is another story, but to trade them for crappy prospects isn't a good idea. Don't get mad at me, but if you're going to get rid of someone who can't stay upright on skates or hit an open net with a laser sight, trade Boyle. We have plenty of guys who can kill penalties, and also plenty of guys very practiced in the art of shooting wide of an open net.

BTW, how is Carolina?

 

[haveandare]

The idiocy of the the fluid opinion on players has really been highlighted with this.

Last year, Stepan was supposedly better than Backstrom. This year, you'd think John Scott could outskate him.

Less than a year ago, Henrik Lundqvist was the best goaltender in the world. This year, he's being treated like Bryz

Callahan, the team's most versatile player by a ****ing mile, who's gone from being a player who was supposed to top out as a 3rd line energy player and managed to make himself into a 50+ point Captain who is counted on to provide offense, defense, leadership, physicality, powerplay points, penalty killing, and every other intangible under the sun, and these ****ing brain surgeons are suggesting trading him for what would inevitably be a low pick and B prospect, with ZERO possible replacement for what he brings.

Who's the replacement for the 2nd line wing? Zucc? I love the Hobbit, but he has proven exactly nothing over the course of a full season. Expecting him to step into that role is placing expectations upon him apropos of nearly nothing.

But this is the same board that near unanimously begged for our leading point scorer to be bought out last year so that our only two serviceable centers would be the now out-of-fashion Stepan and Derrick "Trade Bait" Brassard.

I honestly think of putting half of this board on ignore sometimes.

Great post. I agree with so much of this, especially Zucc taking Callahan's place. Same with Girardi and Stralman.

In general, I hate the idea of trading some really important players and letting good depth players end up completely over their heads. That's how you ruin guys who could be solid in limited roles, by demanding that they be solid in way more than that. Zucc is a great 2/3 winger, and Stralman is a great second pairing defenseman, but beither has shown themselves to be consistently better than that for the bulk of a season. I'd rather keep the guys in front of them, or somehow get suitable replacements (which won't happen), and get a lineup where players can play above their role rather than constantly try to catch up to it.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

Richards is miserable along the boards, but has some good work behind the net. With guys the size of Kreider and Nash, there SHOULD be enough support there to maintain a decent forecheck. "Should" doesn't go too far though. Richards is better with the puck than Stepan is though, and I think he would create some room for Nash and Kreids to take advantage of.

Stepan is at his best when he's physically engaged, pissed off and cocky. Not his personality, but he's got it in him. Hags and Step tend to bring that out in him. Ideally, I'd have an older Miller centering that line (I think he'll be a Dubi 2.0), but we've got some time before that's an option.

The problem is that neither Krieder/Nash are dominating along the wall. Krieder will eventually become dominate along the boards(but he aint there yet). Nash is like Jagr. He is really good at protecting the puck but he doesn't engage on the wall all that much. Putting Richards between the two of them means most of the board work falls on Krieder. Thats not going to cut it.

Step, at the very least, offers assistance along the wall. Step is also too smart of a player to get positioned with Cally/Hags. Neither of those guys have Steps offensive Hockey IQ. It would just be Step looking around for people to pass to. More than likely that line would just revert to board cycling line anyways.

My point is that our centers are where they should be atm. Unless they want to sit Richards and bring up Miller. But its not like Richards has been playing badly.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

Don't disagree with you. Callahan hasn't been great lately, but he and Girardi are not the biggest problems on this team, which I don't think is that bad a team. Whether or not to resign them next year is another story, but to trade them for crappy prospects isn't a good idea. Don't get mad at me, but if you're going to get rid of someone who can't stay upright on skates or hit an open net with a laser sight, trade Boyle. We have plenty of guys who can kill penalties, and also plenty of guys very practiced in the art of shooting wide of an open net.

BTW, how is Carolina?

Boyle is a whole other issue. But there is not much your going to get for Boyle as a rental. You could get at least a decent return for Cally/Girardi.

Boyle is gone anyways.

 

[Callagraves]

No problem, Callagraves. I value your posts and always read them.

My whole idea is simply that we do not know yet what Callahan might return. It is fine to surmise and postulate, but there may be a GM out there drunk on the thoughts of what adding a player like Callahan, who I love, would do for his team. Steals of deals happen, have always happened. Pants have been dropped, pockets have been picked.

I'm not for getting rid of Callahan based on the wishes of a coach. I would prefer it be from some astute dealing by a GM who knows that the front needs a big talented player.
If the deal is not advantageous, it does not occur. That statement alone is so full of ambiguity and subjectivity that I realize it does not clarify a thing.

Bolded:

It's true that if Sather can work his trade magic, we have to stand back and let that happen. If he can find a way to rob a team like Colorado blind, well that would just be fantastic. Hell, a UFA and Brassard for one of their top 6 would be attractive. Or just as good, Winnepeg. Ladd, Wheeler, Kane are all targets.

But how drunk does a GM have to be to bite on something like that? Probably drunk enough to end up in a hospital before pulling the trigger on the deal, I think.

 

[ltsthinaz]

Boyle is a whole other issue. But there is not much your going to get for Boyle as a rental. You could get at least a decent return for Cally/Girardi.

Boyle is gone anyways.

Think you might be surprised. Boyle's size is over-rated because he doesn't use it, but some GM might be tempted to overpay.

Don't know about what he brings to the locker room and he seems a nice fun-loving guy and a great personal interest story. As a hockey player, he's a great personal interest story.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

Think you might be surprised. Boyle's size is over-rated because he doesn't use it, but some GM might be tempted to overpay.

Don't know about what he brings to the locker room and he seems a nice fun-loving guy and a great personal interest story. As a hockey player, he's a great personal interest story.

You might be able to swing a late 2nd round draft pick. But, I don't care one way or another at this point. Boyle is obviously not getting resigned here. If he gets traded or plays out his contract, I don't really care.

 

[Callagraves]

Don't disagree with you. Callahan hasn't been great lately, but he and Girardi are not the biggest problems on this team, which I don't think is that bad a team. Whether or not to resign them next year is another story, but to trade them for crappy prospects isn't a good idea. Don't get mad at me, but if you're going to get rid of someone who can't stay upright on skates or hit an open net with a laser sight, trade Boyle. We have plenty of guys who can kill penalties, and also plenty of guys very practiced in the art of shooting wide of an open net.

BTW, how is Carolina?

I like Boyle. He's a valuable piece. But if packaging Brian Boyle makes the difference between a terrible return on a UFA, or a real piece moving forward, you make that deal. Moore does much of the same thing as Boyle, and he's a good deal faster.

I have to admit, the weather in South Carolina is nicer than New York, but I'm afraid that's where my compatibility with the area ends. It turns out I'm a New Yorker through and through, and I get the feeling they can smell it on me. Also of note, much to my frustration, being a firefighter in the Southeast does not compare to being a firefighter in the NY area. I don't know to articulate it, but the difference is significant.

On the other hand, I regularly fill up my gas tank for under 3 dollars a gallon, and that makes everything seem better.

 

[cd211]

guys we lost tn bc we gave a pp late in the game.. not bc we we're a terrible team or one who should start trading people to trade them..

cally doesn't fit this team now? cally is a player who is a machine, in the sense hes programable, very coachable and a player you tell how you want him to play and he'll do it.. i think AV coached a similar fwd in Kesler.. really not much difference..

yes yes kesler is more skilled but they both play a more defensive game.. tonight was a solid test, yes we lost.. but like how the blues play.. they are such a tightnit defensive team, literally give no room to move..

 

[ltsthinaz]

You might be able to swing a late 2nd round draft pick. But, I don't care one way or another at this point. Boyle is obviously not getting resigned here. If he gets traded or plays out his contract, I don't really care.

Was browsing the draft prospects recently. Draft is pretty deep this year, if not as much star power at the lottery end. Second round pick would not be bad.

 

[Callagraves]

The problem is that neither Krieder/Nash are dominating along the wall. Krieder will eventually become dominate along the boards(but he aint there yet). Nash is like Jagr. He is really good at protecting the puck but he doesn't engage on the wall all that much. Putting Richards between the two of them means most of the board work falls on Krieder. Thats not going to cut it.

Step, at the very least, offers assistance along the wall. Step is also too smart of a player to get positioned with Cally/Hags. Neither of those guys have Steps offensive Hockey IQ. It would just be Step looking around for people to pass to. More than likely that line would just revert to board cycling line anyways.

My point is that our centers are where they should be atm. Unless they want to sit Richards and bring up Miller. But its not like Richards has been playing badly.

I have to disagree on Nash. He is typically fantastic at getting the puck to the center of the ice, but on protecting it for few seconds, he's godawful. There aren't many players who can protect the puck for an extended period of time on this team.

You've got a point on Kreider's board-work being incomplete. It makes things difficult.

And yes, you can't sit Richards right now. There's no reason to. I'd actually sit Pouliot a game or two again; he's reverted to being as soft on the puck as anyone I've ever seen. You hate to yo-yo Miller, but I'm always looking to give the kids a shot.

 

[ltsthinaz]

I like Boyle. He's a valuable piece. But if packaging Brian Boyle makes the difference between a terrible return on a UFA, or a real piece moving forward, you make that deal. Moore does much of the same thing as Boyle, and he's a good deal faster.

I have to admit, the weather in South Carolina is nicer than New York, but I'm afraid that's where my compatibility with the area ends. It turns out I'm a New Yorker through and through, and I get the feeling they can smell it on me. Also of note, much to my frustration, being a firefighter in the Southeast does not compare to being a firefighter in the NY area. I don't know to articulate it, but the difference is significant.

On the other hand, I regularly fill up my gas tank for under 3 dollars a gallon, and that makes everything seem better.

Hopefully, it'll grow on you. I love to watch my Rangers, but I don't have any desire to return to New York, even to visit (which I have to do this November for the wedding of my oldest son). Of course, as a conservative/libertarian pro-2nd Amendment guy, I am obviously not welcome in NY. And I do love the $2.979 gas!!

 

[ltsthinaz]

guys we lost tn bc we gave a pp late in the game.. not bc we we're a terrible team or one who should start trading people to trade them..

cally doesn't fit this team now? cally is a player who is a machine, in the sense hes programable, very coachable and a player you tell how you want him to play and he'll do it.. i think AV coached a similar fwd in Kesler.. really not much difference..

yes yes kesler is more skilled but they both play a more defensive game.. tonight was a solid test, yes we lost.. but like how the blues play.. they are such a tightnit defensive team, literally give no room to move..

I think we lost because Lundqvist gave up a very soft goal in the first period, and we overpassed the puck and didn't take advantage of multiple opportunities. St. Louis is a very good team with size, speed and skill, but frankly, they didn't have very many good scoring opportunities tonight and they were ripe for the picking.

 

[ltsthinaz]

I have to disagree on Nash. He is typically fantastic at getting the puck to the center of the ice, but on protecting it for few seconds, he's godawful. There aren't many players who can protect the puck for an extended period of time on this team.

You've got a point on Kreider's board-work being incomplete. It makes things difficult.

And yes, you can't sit Richards right now. There's no reason to. I'd actually sit Pouliot a game or two again; he's reverted to being as soft on the puck as anyone I've ever seen. You hate to yo-yo Miller, but I'm always looking to give the kids a shot.

I don't know if I'd sit Pouliot, but I'd sure threaten him. He has gone backwards the last few games for sure. Brassard has been regressing as well - I find him more frustrating because he has a ton of talent.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

I have to disagree on Nash. He is typically fantastic at getting the puck to the center of the ice, but on protecting it for few seconds, he's godawful. There aren't many players who can protect the puck for an extended period of time on this team.

You've got a point on Kreider's board-work being incomplete. It makes things difficult.

And yes, you can't sit Richards right now. There's no reason to. I'd actually sit Pouliot a game or two again; he's reverted to being as soft on the puck as anyone I've ever seen. You hate to yo-yo Miller, but I'm always looking to give the kids a shot.

I mean Nash is good protecting the puck along the wall. I didn't say he was good protecting the puck making unnecessary dangles.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

I think the lines are what they should be at this point. No shuffling is going to improve that at this point. The team needs to retool the roster if they want to take that next step imo.

This year is transitional folks.

 

[Callagraves]

Hopefully, it'll grow on you. I love to watch my Rangers, but I don't have any desire to return to New York, even to visit (which I have to do this November for the wedding of my oldest son). Of course, as a conservative/libertarian pro-2nd Amendment guy, I am obviously not welcome in NY. And I do love the $2.979 gas!!

I hate to admit it, but social and political stances make a huge difference. I'd be considered progressive even in Brooklyn, so a place like South Carolina doesn't exactly mesh well with me.

And I go 2.839/Gallon with my supermarket rewards card the other day.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

I hate to admit it, but social and political stances make a huge difference. I'd be considered progressive even in Brooklyn, so a place like South Carolina doesn't exactly mesh well with me.

And I go 2.839/Gallon with my supermarket rewards card the other day.

Just bear this in mind, there are cool people no matter where you are. You just got to find them.