Post-Game Talk: #1 - 10/04/18 | predators @ RANGERS | 7:30 - MSG, NBCSN

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Edge

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Not for anything, but Nashivlle was/is one of the top teams in the league.

When taking that into account, warts and all, this team didn't look like a disaster out there.

Of course there are things to work on, that isn't changing any time soon.
 

Rempe73

RIP King of Pop
Mar 26, 2018
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I rewatched the game this morning...

Some things that stood out to me:

- We didn't play nearly as well as I thought we did at first glance. Some of it is to be expected, but there are some not so great things that will carry over for the rest of the year.

- Vesey was the only forward who looked really good. He was right in the middle of almost every single great scoring chance we had. He really drove that line and had he been typical Vesey, I think the mood in here would be much different.

-Hank was a wall. This game could have easily been over 10 minutes in.

- Howden was easily the best of the rookies. Losing the draw that led to the 2nd goal should be the prime example for why face off prowess is horse ****, he was dominant in the dot yesterday and one of the few he lost ended up in the back of the net. If Vesey was the best forward, I'd probably put Howden #2.

- Not a good game at all for Pionk. He really struggled for the first 2 periods but like NYR2K said, most of what he struggled with are things that are coachable. It didn't help that his partner left him out to dry on about a half dozen occasions.

- Shatty looked so slow. Not just slow, but Staal slow. Not time to press the panic button yet but definitely a red flag.

- On a positive note, Skjei was even better than I thought he was. Monster 3rd period too. If thats the guy we get, his contract is a steal.

- After the lone PP in the 3rd Quinn sent Howden out there with Fast and Zuccarello and they got all sorts of things done (including almost tying the game.) Maybe this is something he should consider as a line moving forward?

- Marc Staal.... Oh what to say about Marc Staal... There will be games where he won't look as bad as he did last night but woof.

This wasn't a typical Staal stinker where he turns a billion pucks over in his own end (though this did happen a few times), but once he got outside of his own blue line he looked like someone who had never played the game before. On one hand, I'll take aggressive mistakes over the typical Staal blunders every time, but there is aggressive and smart (Skjei stepped up on the play that eventually led to Nashville's first goal, but thats fine because he had support, Pionk kind of played this one into a goal) and then there is aggressive and dumb, which is what pretty much all of Staal's mistakes were yesterday.

I understand the respect factor and that hes more than paid his dues, but he should not be playing. The 2 scratches are both better than he is and there are at least 4 guys down in the minors who I'd wager would do a better job.

- Not Ranger related, but Nashville is really good. They had a sloppy game as well, but it seemed like when ever the Rangers had the puck, there was automatically a Predator right on them. Great support all around the ice, excellent in the NZ and moving the puck out of their own end. Thats the kind of team that I hope this one becomes in a few seasons.

All in all, there were a few positives mixed in with all of the bad stuff, most of which I expected. I think the biggest positive is that the guys looked like they gave a **** again. They may end up worse than they were last year, but I'll take that over the bull **** we became accustomed to under AV where they were pushed around and unprepared for what seemed like every single game.

But along with the defensive problems, this team is really going to struggle to put pucks in the net 5v5. Perhaps it was the opponent, but the Rangers looked really slow. Short of Hank Heroics, I don't see any way they challenge for a playoff spot, the depth up front isn't there and the defense is not good.
This is what I said in a nutshell in the game thread (some good things, but for the most part, not a good game), and people gave me sh*t over it.
 

PlamsUnlimited

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A lot of people want a silver bullet or a guarantee that a certain direction is going to work. Neither is realistic.

Personally, I believe your odds of building a contender by taking a few steps back is greater than simply trying to trudge on and plug holes. I've detailed this extensively in the past and don't particularly feel like re-posting a thesis paper.

In the Rangers case, I think landing a cornerstone player in this draft, and possibly a few more prospects/picks at the TDL, will be a huge boost to what they already have in place.

To me this is the big part and why I'm not exactly freaking out or doom and gloom. They do have a somewhat decent pool of players in the wings. Whether or not most of them turn out to be significant NHLers is pretty far out still considering this is year 1.5 or so of doing this/processing a rebuild/something this team hasn't done since the Kennedy presidency or beyond. You (not YOU but anyone really) look at some other teams rebuilding and they were pretty much empty. Not the case here. Gorts and friends managed to get some decent assets last season. Just need more to build with
 

SnowblindNYR

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The 3rd pick has a historically bad chance of giving you a guy who is either a top-10 scorer leaguewide or top-10 scorer among D. Not that you can't get a really good player at three, but 4 and 5 are historically better for getting a player capable of giving you an elite season. No idea why.

Probably a statistical quirk.
 
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NYR713

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Vinny was there.
No, he wasn't. He was a full body length behind the other forward... so much that even he took his next best option and tried to pressure Forsberg at the end. Pionk played that correctly. There was no chance of getting a pass through, which would have been a tap in.
 

The Crypto Guy

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The fact we kept it a game is impressive vs Nashville. Hank was good, Vesey was good, Brady was good. KZB didnt show up for 95% of the game. Defensd made a lot of mistakes. One of Pionk/Staal need to come out of the lineup for ADA next game.
 

Edge

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To me this is the big part and why I'm not exactly freaking out or doom and gloom. They do have a somewhat decent pool of players in the wings. Whether or not most of them turn out to be significant NHLers is pretty far out still considering this is year 1.5 or so of doing this/processing a rebuild/something this team hasn't done since the Kennedy presidency or beyond. You (not YOU but anyone really) look at some other teams rebuilding and they were pretty much empty. Not the case here. Gorts and friends managed to get some decent assets last season. Just need more to build with

Need more and need some exclamation points. As we've talked about extensively on here, they definitely need some cornerstones --- especially on defense.

They have some talent support pieces, maybe even their core leaders somewhat in place. But they need that dynamo.
 

GoAwayPanarin

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No, he wasn't. He was a full body length behind the other forward... so much that even he took his next best option and tried to pressure Forsberg at the end. Pionk played that correctly. There was no chance of getting a pass through, which would have been a tap in.

HE wasn't. He was basically right there with him. The separation happened when Pionk played it like a 2 v 1 and Vinny peeled off to try and get to Forsberg.

That pass would have been a much tougher play to complete and set up as a tap in. Would have taken basically the perfect pass.
 

offdacrossbar

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Jun 25, 2006
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im completely at peace with a rebuild.

new coach. new system and new attitude. no AV is a win for me.

this season we determine who the new core is and will be. we will have a very good pick next year and we should get an impact player. a rebuild is painful but will yield results as long as gordie doesnt go full mcilrath again.

2019 draft is loaded with talent. pick the best hockey player when you come up then repeat it. easy.

there is light at the end of the tunnel. high end talent, speed and smarts. thats the ticket. build via the draft and draft smart. cull out the has beens and never will bees

shesty is coming. his numbers are obscene. hes the real deal. draft a #1 Dman and a #1 pivot. profit.

bright future requires patience.
 

Miamipuck

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My thoughts:

They played a top Stanley Cup contender and were outmatched. When Nashville wanted they controlled the game easily. That said, the Rangers played hard and made Nashville work for that win. You can't really ask for more, it was a very entertaining game.

The ice was brutal

I don't want to sound as an apologist but I think the ice really played a part in KZB stinking up the joint, at least in the first. I also think that they looked a little too jacked up, the mistakes they made fumbling the puck, over passing, falling down, running into each other, were not customary mistakes by that line. It could also be the opponent so I I will wait to see how they look against Buffalo. Mika looked lost for his few shifts of the game, he fell a couple of times, ran into guys and it really was a microcosm for the entire line.

Staal - Pionk were brutal. It was difficult to watch those 2 as a pair. I don't know the relative shot metric numbers for them but I don't imagine they will be all that good. They were easily the 3rd pair in my eyes.

I thought the other 2 pairs were fine, a couple of mistakes here or there but not nearly as glaring as the above. Skjei was the best defender.

Vesey and Fast were the 2 best forwards in my opinion. They were the engines for their respective lines. If they can somehow play like that consistently, at least 2 forward lines will be fine. Fortunately, they won't be playing Nashville every night, a team with conservatively, 4 dmen that would be on the Rangers 1st pair.

The refs were pretty bad, I don't think it was bias or anything, they did let some Rangers nonsense go as well. It did feel like the mistakes the stripes made were largely in favor of Nashville. It is what it is.

The system the Rangers are employing is better for this team. It really looks like Quinn gets that. It's one game but I like his hands on style and the constant coaching. It seems, not sure if it really is or isn't the case but the players get more teaching versus the other regime. Will it help a team with less than mediocre talent? It can't hurt.

If this game is indicative of the Rangers style, I think the advanced stats crowd will be happier. Short of the individual decisions that drive them bonkers, like Staal or any other plug that's in the nightly lineup, it looks like this team is more of a forechecking pressure based system. They just can't afford to take a night off, if they do, it will be pretty ugly.

I am not happy they lost but at least it was entertaining and I didn't have too much to complain about other than too many odd man rushes in the first half. If the Rangers play like this consistently, they will have trouble against the top teams but they should win their fair share of games and keep us entertained in the process, I am good with that.
 
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MetalJaws

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Have not fully caught up and read everything yet, I hope it's been said. Staal looked so bad. How is Quinn going to deal with this? ADA and Claesson (sp) are far superior. I know the whole vet and assistant captain thing is certainly a reason for him playing. However, I feel a couple more games like that and Quinn will be forced to do something about it. It's sad to say because I was hoping he would be a solid D man this year, have a bounce back year. He prob. has a solid role in the locker room and such as well. Never been a hater of his either.
 

Lays

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Jan 22, 2017
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I’m pretty happy with this game
Chytil got a nice assist and Buch gets a goal, anyone know why he was actually upset at the end of the game? It looked like some tears, still love seeing that passion
Skjei was amazing, great defense by him tonight
Pionk’s defensive IQ is so low. He has good offense and great stickwork but he doesn’t know where to be or when to attack the carrier, he plays more “shy” on defense if that’s the right word. I was screaming at my TV when he dropped down to block the shot even though Forsberg wasn’t even close to him and is a known volume shooter.
McQuaid was good as well, some iffy plays but for the most part I liked him, we should get more than what we paid for at the TDL too.
KZB was pretty silent
Vesey was a god, probably his best game as a Ranger, good to see Zucc got him going
Staal was shit

I’d like to see

KZB
Vesey-Chytil-Zucc
Spooner-Hayes-Fast
Namestnikov-Howden-Lettieri

Skjei-Deangelo/McQuaid
Smith-Shatty
Claesson-Deangelo/McQuaid

Spooner-Chytil-Fast got dominated physically, getting Hayes between Spooner and Fast (both who he’s had chemistry with) gets them a big body in between
 

Kupo

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Yep. It’s going to be a long season.
I'm a patient man.
giphy.gif
 

GoAwayPanarin

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Still trying to figure out what Staal was doing on that step up in the neutral zone.

That one and the 3 others that happened after it.

I'm looking forward to watching him play against Toronto this year. Going to be like watching a squirt game where theres one kid who is like a billion times better than everyone else, except that one kid is the Leafs entire forward corps and the everyone else is Marc Staal.
 

Hi ImHFNYR

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Probably a statistical quirk.
I wonder if it's also evidence of overrating production, talent and ceiling while ignoring other factors that could predict how likely they'll reach even a basic NHL level. Even though he was 4th, Brendl is the perfect example. The 1 and 2 likely are the guys with high ceilings and VERY few warts so when you reach 3 you're left with that player who has a high ceiling but a ton of warts. With the high bust, high talent player taken at 3, the 4 and 5 picks can be used on a more reliable talent, potentially with a lower ceiling.
 
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SnowblindNYR

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I wonder if it's also evidence of overrating production, talent and ceiling while ignoring other factors that could predict how likely they'll reach even a basic NHL level. Even though he was 4th, Brendl is the perfect example. The 1 and 2 likely are the guys with high ceilings and VERY few warts so when you reach 3 you're left with that player who has a high ceiling but a ton of warts. With the high bust, high talent player taken at 3, the 4 and 5 picks can be used on a more reliable talent, potentially with a lower ceiling.

Possibly, but I have a hard time believing as early as 3 you get guys with a "ton of warts".
 

Tawnos

A guy with a bass
Sep 10, 2004
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I wonder if it's also evidence of overrating production, talent and ceiling while ignoring other factors that could predict how likely they'll reach even a basic NHL level. Even though he was 4th, Brendl is the perfect example. The 1 and 2 likely are the guys with high ceilings and VERY few warts so when you reach 3 you're left with that player who has a high ceiling but a ton of warts. With the high bust, high talent player taken at 3, the 4 and 5 picks can be used on a more reliable talent, potentially with a lower ceiling.

That's somewhat my feeling as well though I think it's not so much that the 3OA has a high ceiling, but that his production to that point falsely points to a high ceiling that isn't really there. After all, if a guy lights up his contemporaries at 17, the natural assumption is that he will grow into the ability to do the same once he reaches the pros. That isn't always the case.
 
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PlamsUnlimited

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Need more and need some exclamation points. As we've talked about extensively on here, they definitely need some cornerstones --- especially on defense.

They have some talent support pieces, maybe even their core leaders somewhat in place. But they need that dynamo.

With how the game is right now having more diamonds on defense will never be a bad thing. I am not sure what this year's draft is looking like at the moment since I am lazy and uneducated right now, but I do think that there will be a small handful of years to try and get one, and then add in trades/unsigned players too. I am concerned about some defense prospects right now, but not at all ready to freak out. But we do need to find some more. What a guy like Hedman would do for this team. Still, having support pieces this early is still good. After essentially going to almost every home game in Buffalo for every year since I've lived here... that does make a pretty big difference.

I do have one concern though overall. Not that I am a better talent evaluation person, but I am always worried that we will essentially outsmart ourselves as a franchise/scouting/etc and miss something pretty obvious
 

nyr2k2

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Pionk does have real issues defending the odd-man rush, and with his gap control in general. Let's remember he's young and only in his second professional season. We have our "developmental coach," who can hopefully iron out some of these issues. This is a season of learning for these younger players, so we all have to be prepared to live with these things. It's part of the rebuilding process everyone wanted. At the same time, Pionk can sling the puck around pretty well and seems to have good offensive awareness. I think he can be an offensive catalyst from the back end, in time. Let's let it all play out. We'll notice plenty of warts on other young players as the season progresses.
 
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Tawnos

A guy with a bass
Sep 10, 2004
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@Tawnos you are so close to being woke af (sorry, @Inferno ) right now. Just one more step, you have this. What is the general commonality between teams who end up picking 3rd overall? You got this. I know you have this.

I'm intrigued about where you are going with this. I mean there are the obvious ones, which are that these are bad teams and usually ones in a rebuild. Where they are in the standings is less obvious now than it was at one time.

I could go the totally indirect route and say "they are not the NY Rangers"

Do 3OA picks have a tendency to be somewhat off the board and not "BPA"?

I feel like I'm disappointing you.
 
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