“It could go to $9M… Sign Knies first and see what’s leftover… because he’s going to get offer sheeted.”

Iirc Meier’s last RFA deal was like that, first 2 years were 700k salary + 3.3 bonus, then 4mil salary + 2mil bonus, then 10mil salary. When he hits RFA, SJ would have to qualify him at the last year’s salary of 10mil or he’d become a UFA. The cap hit ends up 6 mil over the contract but the last year’s salary gives the player a ton of leverage when their options are become UFA, take a huge QO, get a trade to a team you handpick since you’re basically worthless unless you agree to sign a deal under the QO with them before the trade, get offersheeted, or give your team a break and negotiate in good faith ignoring what your other options are.
So that is how a short term deal would be structured with the Leafs for Knies benefit?
 
So that is how a short term deal would be structured with the Leafs for Knies benefit?

It’s how a team could do a short offer sheet that isn’t at a high pick compensation because the AAV isn’t crazy high, but the last year of it forces us to deal with a 14mil QO if his agent forced the issue. We probably still match the offer sheet but it nearly guarantees he’s gone after the Matthews window.
 
It’s how a team could do a short offer sheet that isn’t at a high pick compensation because the AAV isn’t crazy high, but the last year of it forces us to deal with a 14mil QO if his agent forced the issue. We probably still match the offer sheet but it nearly guarantees he’s gone after the Matthews window.
I don’t know. He likely wants to be a Leaf, win a cup and be paid fairly which they’ll likely do before it gets to July 1st. Why would he want leverage to leave on his next RFA contract ? It would create bad will with the Leafs who he just signed with.
 
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I don’t know. He likely wants to be a Leaf, win a cup and be paid fairly which they’ll likely do before it gets to July 1st. Why would he want leverage to leave on his next RFA contract ? It would create bad will with the Leafs who he just signed with.
It's not so much the QO amount itself, but that it gives him an accelerated path to UFA if he ends up not worth that amount, which makes him a less valuable asset - RFA control effectively evaporates.

Its workable though, Kotkaniemi took a long term 20% pay cut after his artificially inflated offer sheet deal expired.
 
It’s how a team could do a short offer sheet that isn’t at a high pick compensation because the AAV isn’t crazy high, but the last year of it forces us to deal with a 14mil QO if his agent forced the issue. We probably still match the offer sheet but it nearly guarantees he’s gone after the Matthews window.

They'd also know it would be matched. And in real life, teams tend to not treat offer sheets in such a provocative way.

I wouldn't see it as a credible threat to the Leafs this off-season especially given their cap flexibility
 
There’s an entire world of poison pill contracts to consider where someone offersheets him for an AAV below a crazy pick return, but it’s structured so that the last year is a crazy QO that we can’t sign and kills his trade value.

They changed the rules a while ago so this might not be a thing anymore.

The year to year difference in total salary can't exceed a certain percentage. Also the final year has to be, I believe, at least 50% of what the first year was. A good example.would be how the Leafs have structured their contracts for MNMT.

I believe the league did it this way to prevent cap circumvention by way of teams giving out retirement contracts, with the first few years paying mega dollars and the final years paying league minimum, so the player simply retires when he is no longer useful.
 
They changed the rules a while ago so this might not be a thing anymore.

The year to year difference in total salary can't exceed a certain percentage. Also the final year has to be, I believe, at least 50% of what the first year was. A good example.would be how the Leafs have structured their contracts for MNMT.

I believe the league did it this way to prevent cap circumvention by way of teams giving out retirement contracts, with the first few years paying mega dollars and the final years paying league minimum, so the player simply retires when he is no longer useful.

Even at 50%, 6mil + 12mil at 9mil cap hit and 1st 2nd 3rd compensation is enough to be very annoying to deal with.
 
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Even at 50%, 6mil + 12mil at 9mil cap hit and 1st 2nd 3rd compensation is enough to be very annoying to deal with.
That would be a dick move, but has anyone ever done that? You'd have to offer sheet an inflated cap hit for more than one year, and then you would have to deal with the QO quagmire yourself, effectively giving up RFA control of the asset you gave up picks for and overpaid.
 
It's not so much the QO amount itself, but that it gives him an accelerated path to UFA if he ends up not worth that amount, which makes him a less valuable asset - RFA control effectively evaporates.

Its workable though, Kotkaniemi took a long term 20% pay cut after his artificially inflated offer sheet deal expired.
Still. Seems kind of a negative approach to buy himself insurance in case he’s not going to be worth the QO amount. Is this something teams want to put into contracts ? Would the Leafs want to ?
 
That would be a dick move, but has anyone ever done that? You'd have to offer sheet an inflated cap hit for more than one year, and then you would have to deal with the QO quagmire yourself, effectively giving up RFA control of the asset you gave up picks for and overpaid.

I’d do it for Wilson or Tkachuk after we had Matthews and co in the system. There’s no other scenario where you get a prime aged unicorn for a mid 1st 2nd 3rd. Even if his agent plays hardball on the QO, that’s a 2 year rental that would cost you multiple 1sts at the deadline, and you can recoup some assets if you play matchmaker for a team he’ll sign under QO for in exchange for the 8th year.
 
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Still. Seems kind of a negative approach to buy himself insurance in case he’s not going to be worth the QO amount. Is this something teams want to put into contracts ? Would the Leafs want to ?
I may have gotten lost in the convo, but I was looking at it from the perspective of a team putting together an offer sheet. They could construct it in a way to lower the value of the asset (Knies), which would be unfortunate for Toronto if they matched, but it would also be bad for that team if it goes through, as they are reducing the value of the asset they are acquiring.

I dont think Knies or Toronto would be interested in a short term back loaded contract.
 
I’d do it for Wilson or Tkachuk after we had Matthews and co in the system. There’s no other scenario where you get a prime aged unicorn for a mid 1st 2nd 3rd. Even if his agent plays hardball on the QO, that’s a 2 year rental that would cost you multiple 1sts at the deadline, and you can recoup some assets if you play matchmaker for a team he’ll sign under QO for in exchange for the 8th year.
Yeah maybe that could work - a bit dicey. You're taking a ding on cap through the rental term. You also gain some benefit for nothing, particularly inter division or conference, if Toronto matches, but as zinger said, you're stirring the pot as well.
 
Yeah maybe that could work - a bit dicey. You're taking a ding on cap through the rental term. You also gain some benefit for nothing, particularly inter division or conference, if Toronto matches, but as zinger said, you're stirring the pot as well.

Adjusting for the cap increase it’s along the lines of getting 2 years of ~2018 Tkachuk or Wilson at 7mil or so with a 9mil QO for a 1st 2nd 3rd. Compared to Marleau + grinder cap-wise and 2 2nds on Plekanec and Boyle pick-wise, it’s just not even remotely close for a team coming out of a rebuild with cap space. And that’s assuming their agent makes a stink of it and they force a trade or UFA at the end of the deal instead of extending for 8 years.

I don’t think St Louis is too worried about stirring the pot when they came out of it with two core pieces for almost nothing. I don’t know, if I’m Ottawa, St Louis, Columbus, or any of the younger bubble teams it seems crazy not to at least try.
 
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Adjusting for the cap increase it’s along the lines of getting 2 years of ~2018 Tkachuk or Wilson at 7mil or so with a 9mil QO for a 1st 2nd 3rd. Compared to Marleau + grinder cap-wise and 2 2nds on Plekanec and Boyle pick-wise, it’s just not even remotely close for a team coming out of a rebuild with cap space. And that’s assuming their agent makes a stink of it and they force a trade or UFA at the end of the deal instead of extending for 8 years.

I don’t think St Louis is too worried about stirring the pot when they came out of it with two core pieces for almost nothing. I don’t know, if I’m Ottawa, St Louis, Columbus, or any of the younger bubble teams it seems crazy not to at least try.
You're not worried about stirring the pot if the deal goes through, Blues are happy, though they also didn't back load a poison pill into their own contracts.

I agree with you it could work, though those three teams don't have the picks for it. The first is unprotected in the McKenna draft, so suitors have to be careful.

If Boston is looking to do a quick retool around Pasta, McAvoy, Sway maybe? They're dicks.
 
I'd offersheet him with the Habs for a 1st,2nd and 3rd, we already have plenty of picks and he would be perfect on our 2nd line with Demidov and potentially another 2C
 
I'd offersheet him with the Habs for a 1st,2nd and 3rd, we already have plenty of picks and he would be perfect on our 2nd line with Demidov and potentially another 2C
You may not want to be throwing around unprotected 1sts.

Habs don't seem to be particularly strong when it comes to offer sheet wars anyway - we might end up with both Knies and Demidov.
 
6x6 is the smart contract.

I've been banging this drum forever but look at what Alex Tuch signed for, cap hit %, term and his production...it's pretty well in line with Knies, except he didn't play with guys like Matthews and Marner.

5.45M x 7 is really where Knies contract would land if that was the template but we don't get those deals so scratch a year off, up the $ to 6M, win-win for both parties.
 
You may not want to be throwing around unprotected 1sts.

Habs don't seem to be particularly strong when it comes to offer sheet wars anyway - we might end up with both Knies and Demidov.
In what scenario you end up with demidov? Also bergevin is not there anymore so I feel pretty safe with Hughes offer sheet someone
 
I always get a good laugh every year at fans panic over offer sheets,especially Leaf fans.
Every year OUR GUY is the big target,oh oh,better sign him now or a 10m offer sheet is coming.
Matthews/Marner/Willy were all going to be major offer sheets,lol.
Good thing no other good young guys that will need a new contract are in the league so that makes targeting Knies the key guy.
Really,over the years the amount of offer sheets are few and far between and ones that scare minimal.
Leafs fans have enough things to freak out over but this offer sheet crap is not one of them.
 
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In what scenario you end up with demidov? Also bergevin is not there anymore so I feel pretty safe with Hughes offer sheet someone
Your last foray saw you trying to steal Aho, but you ended up with no Aho and no Kotkaniemi as a result.

Probably best to sit this one out.
 
As long as the Leafs don't find themselves hopelessly slammed against the cap, no one will offer sheet Knies. That's the biggest factor in all these off sheets. With the cap moving north, Tavares resigning for a couple/few million less - we're not in particular cap hell. No one will successfully offer sheet Knies. Leafs have the ability to slightly over spend so a weak Hab style Aho offer ain't going to do the trick.
 

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