Post-Game Talk: Zibanejad worst Ranger since.....?

[chosen]

I want to get bad again. I want to pick 2-3 more times in the top 5 so we can get some real difference makers at age 18. If Lafreniere, Chytil and Kakko had developed into 70 point players we probably aren't having this conversation.

IF.

It will be IF again.

 

[Anthony5967]

Correct. For every Tampa or Chicago you have 9 Buffalo's, San Jose's, and Edmonton's (until McDavid) that toil for a decade before being relevant again.

The Rangers in theory did it perfectly. They traded for and signed foundational pieces in Zibanejad, Fox, Panarin, amd Trouba and locked them in long term while building draft capital. Unfortunately they have encountered bad luck/bad prospect development, bad pro scouting, and bad drafting since 2017.

They need Zibanejad, a guy with a career high in points in an unstructured Gallant system, to start leading by example and upping his game.

 

[Machinehead]

Kakko 20 minutes a night?

Won't have time. It would cut into Kravtsov's 43 minutes.

 

[chosen]

You have to draft these types and when the Rangers are in position to do so, they picked the wrong guy.

They shouldn't have drafted Kakko and Laf?

Everyone in hockey disagreed with you.

Literally everyone.

 

[DanielBrassard]

No.

They're a better than average team.

I would agree, a better than average team, although not much above average, that isn’t a true Stanley cup threat.

So awesome.

Now that I think about it, a Jovanovski-run team would probably be half goons and half guys from Russia we've never heard of. That sounds like fun.

Sponsored by Pizza Hut.

 

[will1066]

Sometimes things don't turn out the way they were envisioned. --an NHL general manager

--also the auto collision body shop representative

 

[DanielBrassard]

They need Zibanejad, a guy with a career high in points in an unstructured Gallant system, to start leading by example and upping his game.

This is who he is as a player. Has been for years. Sometimes the puck goes in and sometimes it doesn’t.

 

[Machinehead]

The only thing Laviolette significantly changed is Quality of Competition.

Zibanejad and Fox used to be hard matchup guys, whereas Laviolette doesn't really hard match.

Fox is still Fox and Zibanejad's underlying numbers actually got slightly worse against weaker competition because QoC is bullshit.

 

[chosen]

Every roster has holes. We're not talking about just holes. We're talking about holes at 1C and 1D.

Here are the teams who are absolutely fine in both positions:

Toronto
Florida
Tampa
Detroit
Buffalo
Ottawa
Carolina
Pittsburgh
Winnipeg
Colorado
Dallas
Vancouver
Vegas
Edmonton
LA

Even some of the most garbage teams in the league have a top center and a top defenseman. We're starting Evan Fournier at point guard and me at center and making leadership the biggest problem.

And yet 25% or so of those teams aren't even going to make the playoffs.

 

[Machinehead]

And yet 25% or so of those teams aren't even going to make the playoffs.

Right. Even the bad teams have good players in the positions I identified.

Every roster is flawed. Having underperforming centers and defensemen playing huge minutes is not a typical flaw. Even bad teams have those positions shored up.

That's not to say there isn't more to it, but we can't expect to contend without upgrades at C and D.

 

[chosen]

That's the thing about Torts... he's pretty good about changing his style/systems depending on the personnel on hand.

When he coached the Rangers they were literally talentless... he made them play a 6 goalie system... and it worked (at least in teaching those players how to stay in this league and play defense... eventually leading to the cup run with AV).

If you mean being yelled at... then we can agree.

Like all other coaches he wins with talent and doesn't without it.

 

[chosen]

I've watched this team for 55 years. I had season tickets and saw the only cup. The only guy to bring this team a cup was the greatest leader in sports. Messier. Guy was all guts and heart and willed them to a Cup. He won 6 and won without Gretzky twice. How the f*** this guy has been alienated by this loser organization I will never get. I don't wanna hear he has no experience running a team. Did Yzerman or Sakic? The guy should be the GM . He knows what type of players you need to win. We have run through coaches,players,GM's at a record clip. This guy should have gotten a shot.One cup in 84 years. Luckily i Saw it. This team isn't winning with this team. To soft on defensive end and offensive end. The only 2 i look forward to seeing are Cullye and Othman because they have tremendous upside and play the right way. I'd be bringing up Berard and Edstrom to see if they can give a boost. It's not like Bonino and Wheeler need to play every game

Messier won here when there were other excellent players, including the best pair of dmen in Rangers history. Leetch was easily the best player on that team.

 

[will1066]

It’s an average post at best.

Shows my true potential

 

[chosen]

A lot of comments about Zibanejad recently have been overtly sexual.

And even if it is just "don't have interests but hockey," that's bullshit anyway.

Michael Jordan is widely considered the most competitive athlete of all time and the guy did nothing but golf when the Bulls weren't playing.

And gamble.

 

[Profet]

Like all other coaches he wins with talent and doesn't without it.

Disagree... that 2011-2012 team was pretty talentless outside of Gaborik:

2011-12 New York Rangers Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest New York Rangers Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

He did pretty well with the personnel he had on hand.

 

[mas0764]

1994 disagrees.

1994 wasn't a team full of Ryan Callahans. It had Leetch, Messier, Graves, Richter. Elite, elite talents.

You're clinging to one of the biggest fairy tales in sports.

Teams don't develop youth.

They either grow as players or they don't.

That's just false.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don’t know that other teams are going through but our schedule has been horrendous.

It’s not an excuse but this team needs proper time practicing hard to get good results. We had it to start the year. They reset back to default mode which is not conducive to winning imo. Factor in fatigue and it’s a bad recipe

 

[Profet]

1994 wasn't a team full of Ryan Callahans. It had Leetch, Messier, Graves, Richter. Elite, elite talents.

Kovalev, Zubov...

 

[Guyute]

A lot of comments about Zibanejad recently have been overtly sexual.

And even if it is just "don't have interests but hockey," that's bullshit anyway.

Michael Jordan is widely considered the most competitive athlete of all time and the guy did nothing but golf when the Bulls weren't playing.

I couldn't care less about his DJing or veganism (I know it's a silly made-up HF meme). I do care about that he's 6 foot 2, over 200 pounds, and plays softer than butter left out in the July sun. The dude doesn't take the body, only allows himself to score the prettiest goals, and never goes to the front of the net. This is why he scores 1.5 PP/60 or whatever it is.

At least he plays adequate D, but he's our 1C and a leader whether he likes it or not. When he plays soft and defers to east-west pass-first hockey, others are inclined to do the same. It's particularly bad for Lafreniere and Kakko, who are forced to play this way with 93 and 10.

 

[chosen]

Yes but Michael Jordan won 6 championships. If Mika delivered just 1, no one would talk shit about him anymore.

Disagree... that 2011-2012 team was pretty talentless outside of Gaborik:

2011-12 New York Rangers Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest New York Rangers Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

He did pretty well with the personnel he had on hand.

Gallant has an even better record but most here think he's a moron.

1994 wasn't a team full of Ryan Callahans. It had Leetch, Messier, Graves, Richter. Elite, elite talents.



That's just false.

Evidence?

 

[will1066]

Kovalev, Zubov...

Tikkanen, elite antagonist

 

[chosen]

1994 wasn't a team full of Ryan Callahans. It had Leetch, Messier, Graves, Richter. Elite, elite talents.



That's just false.

Also, my point was that the 94 team was loaded. Someone else attributed it all to Messier.

 

[mas0764]

Evidence?

The evidence is that pro sports teams, hockey and otherwise, develop talent all the time.

Like... a player gets to a new team, gets new coaching, improves. This year with Lafreniere is an example.

I'm not going to give you a list of examples because it's everywhere.

Your assertion is bewildering. Yeah, pro sports teams don't develop talent.

Wrong, they do.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, my point was that the 94 team was loaded. Someone else attributed it all to Messier.

I see your point now.

 

[hardnosed]

He definitely would be. One possibility.

I'm missing something. Why would Arizona want Lindgren?