Player Discussion Zdeno Chara

[BruinDust]

If you don't think his lack of speed and/or stamina is more of an issue now, then why is he worse?

Loss of stamina is an issue. Losing stamina creates increased fatigue, which leads to mental mistakes. No player is immune to this as they age.

But the speed part is so overblown it's almost sickening to this point. His game was never, ever about speed.

His wingspan is still the longest in the sport.

He's still one of the strongest players in hockey.

Opposing players still don't look forward to going up against him.

Do his minutes need to come down a bit to reduce the fatigue factor? Absolutely, very few question this fact. Taking him off the PP will help. And yeah, skating the length of the ice to retrieve cleared pucks can be draining. Their options to accomplish this were difficult last year with Kevan, McQuaid, Seidenberg, and often Trotman in the line-up. He was still a better PP option than those 4.

A line-up with Krug, Colin, and Liles, and a fairly deep forward group, should in theory make Chara on the PP no longer required.

Combine that with giving the Krug pair and the 3rd pair a slight bump up in minutes, and they should be able to get Chara's minutes down to a more acceptable level.

 

[DKH]

He was so far from top 15 last year. I just don't believe a guy his age can make that much of an improvement. Haven't watched much of the world cup, but even if he is playing well there, that's not the same thing as an 82 game season in the NHL.

Last year was last year, he's healthy.

Guys a beast. up to Claude to keep minutes down

Like that left side is Z and Krug healthy after last year

 

[DKH]

Who has a better year this year Chara or Dougie' we shoulda made you play here' Hamilton?

For those who like remer say the Bruins got nothing for Hamilton- you can see 2/3rds of the guys picked tonight with Lauzon & Sensyshyn.

Anyone think there are a few amongst us rooting secretly against these kids

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

Last year was last year, he's healthy.

Guys a beast. up to Claude to keep minutes down

Like that left side is Z and Krug healthy after last year

He's healthy now. He's got 82 games to go. Plus the world cup. Plus preseason.

Hopefully Claude does keep his minutes down. But he didn't last year when he should have. Still the same coach.

 

[chizzler]

He's healthy now. He's got 82 games to go. Plus the world cup. Plus preseason.

Hopefully Claude does keep his minutes down. But he didn't last year when he should have. Still the same coach.

He might not have a choice if Chara really struggles. Going to be interesting to see his minutes this year.

 

[pierre gagnon*]

Should be on the second pair based on his present skill but will be the top guy as we have no other. Limit his time, no more powerplay and let him do the PK, he is good at that. Please no more handling the puck, play simple, poke check and move it faster.

 

[JEM28]

He's a #3 being asked to play a #1 role.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Loss of stamina is an issue. Losing stamina creates increased fatigue, which leads to mental mistakes. No player is immune to this as they age.

But the speed part is so overblown it's almost sickening to this point. His game was never, ever about speed.

His wingspan is still the longest in the sport.

He's still one of the strongest players in hockey.

Opposing players still don't look forward to going up against him.

Do his minutes need to come down a bit to reduce the fatigue factor? Absolutely, very few question this fact. Taking him off the PP will help. And yeah, skating the length of the ice to retrieve cleared pucks can be draining. Their options to accomplish this were difficult last year with Kevan, McQuaid, Seidenberg, and often Trotman in the line-up. He was still a better PP option than those 4.

A line-up with Krug, Colin, and Liles, and a fairly deep forward group, should in theory make Chara on the PP no longer required.

Combine that with giving the Krug pair and the 3rd pair a slight bump up in minutes, and they should be able to get Chara's minutes down to a more acceptable level.

This has and will continue to be one of the dumbest, most baseless arguments for slower players becoming too slow in their old age. You have to maintain a certain level of speed in this game to be effective. Just because a player's best asset was never speed does not mean slowing down does not dramatically worsen your game. Hell, it might be that much worse since you fall below the "NHL threshold" for speed that much quicker.

Look at a guy like Cheechoo. His game was never, ever about speed, yet he got a couple knee injuries, and dramatically slowed even further. Within 3 or 4 years of scoring 56 goals, he was NOTHING. Let's look at Glen Murray. NEVER about speed. But, a couple injuries and old age later, the guy straight up could not keep up with the game in his mid 30's.

I'm not saying Chara is on a parallel trajectory. I'm just saying as "sickened" as you are about people complaining about Chara's lack of footspeed, I'm "sickened" that this illogical and baseless argument keeps getting thrown around by the advocates.

 

[BruinDust]

He's a #3 being asked to play a #1 role.

Question.

If Chara is taken off the PP in it's entirety, and see's a small reduction in even strength minutes (say down to 22 per night ES and PP combined), is he still being asked to play a No.1 role?

And for the record, I think Chara is a fine No.2 on about half the teams in the league, maybe more.

 

[BruinDust]

This has and will continue to be one of the dumbest, most baseless arguments for slower players becoming too slow in their old age. You have to maintain a certain level of speed in this game to be effective. Just because a player's best asset was never speed does not mean slowing down does not dramatically worsen your game. Hell, it might be that much worse since you fall below the "NHL threshold" for speed that much quicker.

Look at a guy like Cheechoo. His game was never, ever about speed, yet he got a couple knee injuries, and dramatically slowed even further. Within 3 or 4 years of scoring 56 goals, he was NOTHING. Let's look at Glen Murray. NEVER about speed. But, a couple injuries and old age later, the guy straight up could not keep up with the game in his mid 30's.

I'm not saying Chara is on a parallel trajectory. I'm just saying as "sickened" as you are about people complaining about Chara's lack of footspeed, I'm "sickened" that this illogical and baseless argument keeps getting thrown around by the advocates.

You say my argument is illogical and baseless, yet the two examples you cite just happened to have those productive seasons playing alongside arguably his generation's No.1 passing C in Joe Thornton.

Maybe, just maybe, their drop off in production has more to do with them no longer having Joe Thornton feeding them picture-perfect passes than it has anything to do with their drop off in speed.

The whole Chara is "too old" and "too slow" argument is what is baseless. I don't see a dramatic drop-off in speed. So yeah a speedy winger might beat him wide a bit more often than they did 5 years ago. In the grand scheme of things that's not a major issue, it's not like it happens all game every game. I never said he hasn't declined somewhat. I don't believe speed-reduction is the reason for the decline.

I do see a guy who is more affected by fatigue and can't play 25-27 minutes a game anymore.

 

[Pia8988]

I think Chara can still be a #2, I think you have Liles play on the second unit and Chara can do the rare 5 on 3

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Just keep him off the powerplay and in the 18-19 minute range and he will have a really solid year.


Its funny how 90% of the fanbase knows this but the coach likely won't do it.

 

[Pia8988]

Just keep him off the powerplay and in the 18-19 minute range and he will have a really solid year.


Its funny how 90% of the fanbase knows this but the coach likely won't do it.

He averaged 24 last year, 1:42 of PP time. You want to cut another 3-4 minutes off that?

 

[BigGoalBrad]

He averaged 24 last year, 1:42 of PP time. You want to cut another 3-4 minutes off that?

Yes he could dominate again if the minutes were low enough IMO. The guy will never lose his reach or sense of positioning.


Can you imagine how good he'd play if for some reason we bought him out and he signed for the vet minimum with LA Chicago or St Louis???

 

[Pia8988]

Yes he could dominate again if the minutes were low enough IMO. The guy will never lose his reach or sense of positioning.


Can you imagine how good he'd play if for some reason we bought him out and he signed for the vet minimum with LA Chicago or St Louis???

Because they have true #1s in those 3 cities. That is the issue at hand, not Chara himself. Give him someone reasonably capable to play with and he could do 22 minutes a night. I don't think taking 3-4 minutes away from Chara and giving them to Liles/Morrow is the answer.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Just keep him off the powerplay and in the 18-19 minute range and he will have a really solid year.


Its funny how 90% of the fanbase knows this but the coach likely won't do it.

18-19 is closer to 3rd pairing minutes than anything and the Bruins will not be close to the playoffs if you then have Miller, Miller, McQuaid playing 22+ to balance it out.

Chara can handle 20-24. It's the games he plays 26-30 he is not the same for.

 

[PB37]

I'm not troubled by Chara's speed. I don't notice a difference in his skating speed at all. What troubles me are his turns and his decision making. He's always had poor balance when he fights and now I can see it when he's making cuts on the ice. I don't know if it has something to do with his knee injury or not but it was like that last year as well. But even worse than his skating form is his decision making...for a guy that has always been lauded for mixing strength with smarts on the ice, losing half of that equation is troubling indeed.

We'll see what happens when we're in the games that matter ( I don't really care too much about the WCH ).

 

[BigGoalBrad]

18-19 is closer to 3rd pairing minutes than anything and the Bruins will not be close to the playoffs if you then have Miller, Miller, McQuaid playing 22+ to balance it out.

Chara can handle 20-24. It's the games he plays 26-30 he is not the same for.

I agree.

I am only suggesting the low number because I think there is no chance he ever plays with a 'superior' D partner for the rest of his time here. And Claude will play him against good forwards.

So just suggesting to significantly cut them to offset the fact that he will carry someone and he will go up against tough assignments.

Chara will be worth his 4 million cap hit next year I don't see someone from the organization cementing themselves as a minute eater in the next 12 months hes going to be needed for the next 2 years.

I actually like Krug, K Miller, and Liles. Bottom pairing will be fine. Z is the wildcard to me but we have no better options.

Hes had a great career very long think his role is a lot tougher remaining in our organization where so much is expected from him. Don't ask him to go out kicking ass like Ortiz and Brady at the same age and he should be our best defensive D man again. Would be like Doc Rivers asking Peirce to take more shots than CP3 this year.

 

[wintersej]

Just keep him off the powerplay and in the 18-19 minute range and he will have a really solid year.


Its funny how 90% of the fanbase knows this but the coach likely won't do it.

18-19 is sub top 4 minutes. How about 22 mins.

 

[the overrated]

Just keep him off the powerplay and in the 18-19 minute range and he will have a really solid year.


Its funny how 90% of the fanbase knows this but the coach likely won't do it.

Is it that the coach won't do it, or the coach just thinks that the defense is limited enough that playing Chara that much less means playing other players that much more, and even with his faults & aging, Chara's still a better option out there than McQuaid, or Liles, or the Millers, or Morrow?

If Chara's only playing 18 minutes, how do you see the TOI working out for the other 5 guys?

 

[Sheppy]

In my opinion no one is scared to play against Chara. If they are, they should walk away from hockey.

I wish players were scared of the Bruins like they once were, though. Those were the days... and it wasn't too long ago.

 

[Gee Wally]

Zdeno Chara relishing all aspects of the World Cup

TORONTO — At 39 years old, Zdeno Chara has struck most of his matches. The Bruins captain has dressed for 1,275 NHL games, eighth-most among active players. He has been nominated for the Norris Trophy 11 times, claiming the stick salute as the league’s best all-around defenseman once. He has won his Stanley Cup. Chara has represented Slovakia 11 times in international play, including at the last three Winter Olympics.

Many more opportunities to play best-on-best hockey are not likely to be in Chara’s future. He can stall the inevitable by training, eating, and resting correctly. But time is time, and as the oldest player participating in the World Cup of Hockey, the Slovakian strongman does not have much of it left.


“When you’re younger, you don’t realize how fast it goes by,” Chara said. “You always hear about it. People talk about, ‘Enjoy it, it goes by fast.’ But you don’t realize how fast it goes by until you’re probably 10 years, 15 years in the league. Then you’re like, ‘Wow, it’s going really fast.’ ”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/b...s-world-cup/3r659ZkbYbXLwpxZUVe2OI/story.html

 

[JEM28]

Question.

If Chara is taken off the PP in it's entirety, and see's a small reduction in even strength minutes (say down to 22 per night ES and PP combined), is he still being asked to play a No.1 role?

And for the record, I think Chara is a fine No.2 on about half the teams in the league, maybe more.

I guess that means there's a good amount of teams who see a big drop off in their Dmen once you get past their #1 guy. So call him a 2 or a 3, whatever, fact remains that IF the Bruins rely on him to be their top shutdown guy, then they are asking more of him than his current talent level dictates would be appropriate on a team with a "real" # 1.

 

[chizzler]

Just keep him off the powerplay and in the 18-19 minute range and he will have a really solid year.


Its funny how 90% of the fanbase knows this but the coach likely won't do it.

Been saying this for two years. Clode love s to put him out there towards the end of the PP. He worries about getting scored on with 30 secs or so on the PP. Drives me nuts.

 

[TimThomas24]

I know this is fantasy talk but what would Chara look like playing LW. He's so slow on D that he's no longer a shutdown guy. You play him 14 minutes a night on the wing he probably puts up 15 goals, 30 assists. Just curious so don't bash to hard. I also realize how bad our D is so maybe it's an option next year or after, as he gets slower and the young D hopefully improve.