YZERMAN: "We’re building a nucleus of young prospects that are going to be part of this team."

[SirKillalot]

If I compare this team to 2012-13 Tampa, Rasmussen is same aged and having equal production as same aged Killorn then.

Important part ot Lightnings' nucleus.

Hedman & Stamkos were also same aged then as Seider & Raymond now.

Those 3 guys were Tampa's only regular guys playing full games on that season, who were part of the winning nucleus in the future. All rest of the guys were at Syracuse. Red Wings current situation seems like carbon copy.

Meaning we don't need to have a competitive team until 2027 playoffs, so basically according to plan. And Stanley Cup in 2030 (which could have been a year earlier).
That is basically what the Lightning did, with a better starting point than us.
And people are complaining now...

 

[lilidk]

In the year of 2029:

Ras - Larkin - Raymond
Cat - Danielson - MBN
Söder - Kasp - Mazur
Bergg - Lomb - Buchelnikov
Plante - Savage - Kiiskinen

In 2029 half or more of them will be gone

 

[Henkka]

In 2029 half or more of them will be gone

Yeah, no one ever has full team of own prospects.

Like currently, we have 2/6 at our Top6. Maybe 3/9 of Top9.

DeBrincat - Larkin - Raymond
Tarasenko - Compher - Kane
Rasmussen - Copp - Fischer

UFAs will come and our best players in the future could come via trades. We just need to wait next Eichel or M.Tkachuk to happen.

Florida just won the Cup and their Top9 offence was only 2/9 of own picks. Barkov and Lundell.

 

[Gniwder]

lol that's just how the nhl works. You don't win Cups if you don't have players turn out better than expected.

Florida just won the Cup, and their top 3 players are #2OA, #2OA, and #6OA picks. Bob was signed as UFA, and Verhaeghe as well. (Granted Bob's contract looked ugly as hell until this season.)

Meanwhile Stevie's signing Copp, Compher, Holl, Chiarot, and trading for Vrana, Petry, Fabbri, Walman, Kostin, and Husso. those trades where Stevie "fleeced" the other GM turned out to be nothing trades with the possible exception of Mantha/Vrana trade if Cossa becomes a starter.

Stevie doesn't like to take chances, and playing it safe as GM almost guarantees mediocrity or worse.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

Florida just won the Cup, and their top 3 players are #2OA, #2OA, and #6OA picks. Bob was signed as UFA, and Verhaeghe as well. (Granted Bob's contract looked ugly as hell until this season.)

Meanwhile Stevie's signing Copp, Compher, Holl, Chiarot, and trading for Vrana, Petry, Fabbri, Walman, Kostin, and Husso. those trades where Stevie "fleeced" the other GM turned out to be nothing trades with the possible exception of Mantha/Vrana trade if Cossa becomes a starter.

Stevie doesn't like to take chances, and playing it safe as GM almost guarantees mediocrity or worse.

Barkov was drafted all the way back 11 years ago in 2013 and Ekblad a year later. Not to mention Huberdeau from 2011 who was wizardly traded with Weegar by Zito to get Tkachuk who ended up being a really important piece for them

This stuff takes time and Florida suffered its fair share of playoff misses and series losses since bottoming out...

The Bobrovsky contract was HEAVILY criticised from day one. I for one actually defended him despite the massive risk in cap space he was... But it ended up paying off. Virtually none of the critics were willing to see that through years ago when he signed

Yzerman joined 5 years ago and bottomed out the team 4 years ago. Give it time... That's not to say a Verhaeghe won't be unearthed but he's also the exception not the rule. Virtually nobody foresaw him taking off to the level that he did

Zito is an aggressive GM but he also inherited many pieces of that team with many years of NHL experience in hand. There is no denying he's one of if not the best opportunistic GM in the league. I don't think it's fair to measure up Yzerman the same way because the situations aren't remotely the same

 

[Pavels Dog]

Florida just won the Cup, and their top 3 players are #2OA, #2OA, and #6OA picks. Bob was signed as UFA, and Verhaeghe as well. (Granted Bob's contract looked ugly as hell until this season.)

That's still a poor example to support your thesis. Two of those guys were acquired via trade. As was much of their key pieces. Trades, FA signings, waiver claims, it was honestly a pretty rag-tag bunch on that roster. I highly doubt they expected Forsling to be their best d-man when they claimed him for free.

Overall Florida's pretty weird, not even a top 10 regular season team the last 2 years. That's another factor to look at. A team built to win in the playoffs may not always be the same team that dominates in the regular season. Do we want to be Toronto/Carolina, or do we want to be LA/Florida/Vegas/etc?

 

[Henkka]

Overall Florida's pretty weird, not even a top 10 regular season team the last 2 years. That's another factor to look at. A team built to win in the playoffs may not always be the same team that dominates in the regular season. Do we want to be Toronto/Carolina, or do we want to be LA/Florida/Vegas/etc?

It funny how similar they are compared to 96-97-98 Red Wings.

Detroit
1996 - President's Trophy (131 points, playoff failure)
1997 - Stanley Cup (94-point regular season)
1998 - Stanley Cup (103-point regular season)

Stanley Cup seasons point average: 98.5 points
3-season points average: 109.3 points

Florida
2022 - President's Trophy (122 points, playoff failure)
2023 - Stanley Cup Finalist (92-point regular season)
2024 - Stanley Cup (110-point regular season)

Stanley Cup final seasons point average: 101 points.
3-season points average: 108 points

 

[Henkka]

Meaning we don't need to have a competitive team until 2027 playoffs, so basically according to plan. And Stanley Cup in 2030 (which could have been a year earlier).
That is basically what the Lightning did, with a better starting point than us.
And people are complaining now...

Tampa was at 2015 finals, which is kind of comparable of Red Wings season 2025-26.

It's still remarkable how fast this happened and the first final run was based on kids overripened at Syracuse.

2013 season end, Tampa had:
- 3 own draft picks as regulars (Stamkos, Hedman, Killorn)
- 3 guys got a short look (Tyler Johnson 14 games, Ondrej Palat 14 games, Brett Connolly 5 games)
- Out of the playoffs as 40-point/48 games team. (68p pace on 82 games)

2014 season, Tampa had:
- 6 own draft picks as regulars (Stamkos, Hedman, Killorn, Palat, Johnson, Gudas)
- 2 guys got a split season from AHL to NHL (Kucherov, J.T. Brown)
- 2 guys got a short look (Paquette, Connolly)
- 101-point season

2015 season, as they reach the Stanley Cup finals, Tampa had:
- 9-10 own draft picks as regulars (Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Killorn, Palat, Johnson, Drouin, Paquette, Sustr, Gudas (injured most part of the season)
- 2 guys got a split season from AHL to NHL (Namestnikov, Nesterov)
- 1 guy got a short look (Vasilevskiy, 16 games)
- 1 guy traded (Brett Connolly)
- 108-point season

They kind of started adding 3 matured prospects per year on the roster, and the upswing happened really fast.

 

[SirKillalot]

Tampa was at 2015 finals, which is kind of comparable of Red Wings season 2025-26.

It's still remarkable how fast this happened and the first final run was based on kids overripened at Syracuse.

2013 season end, Tampa had:
- 3 own draft picks as regulars (Stamkos, Hedman, Killorn)
- 3 guys got a short look (Tyler Johnson 14 games, Ondrej Palat 14 games, Brett Connolly 5 games)
- Out of the playoffs as 40-point/48 games team. (68p pace on 82 games)

2014 season, Tampa had:
- 6 own draft picks as regulars (Stamkos, Hedman, Killorn, Palat, Johnson, Gudas)
- 2 guys got a split season from AHL to NHL (Kucherov, J.T. Brown)
- 2 guys got a short look (Paquette, Connolly)
- 101-point season

2015 season, as they reach the Stanley Cup finals, Tampa had:
- 9-10 own draft picks as regulars (Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Killorn, Palat, Johnson, Drouin, Paquette, Sustr, Gudas (injured most part of the season)
- 2 guys got a split season from AHL to NHL (Namestnikov, Nesterov)
- 1 guy got a short look (Vasilevskiy, 16 games)
- 1 guy traded (Brett Connolly)
- 108-point season

They kind of started adding 3 matured prospects per year on the roster, and the upswing happened really fast.

Keep in mind that we are currently entering the equal season to what was Tampa's 2013-season timewise unless I'm off. And I don't mean from when Yzerman was hired in Tampa, but from when we are in the timeline of the rebuild from the pieces we have. Example Hedman was drafted in 2009, they were in the in 4th season there, Seider was drafted in 2019 and this will be his 6th, and we are using a bit more time to get to this point as overall the prospect opportunities haven't been the same.

Now we don't have the same high end two guys like Stamkos and Hedman, but Hedman was on his way then.
Let's say Larkin is a little below Stamkos and Seider (as long as he gets signed) can get to Hedman level if development goes well.

Then we have Lucas Raymond as long as he gets signed and Michael Rasmussen, possibly Jonathan Berggren and Joe Veleno.
By all accounts Simon Edvinsson.

So potentially we got
- 3 drafted players (Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson) in the roster drafted by Yzerman's regime (7 totalt in Larkin, Rasmussen, Veleno and Berggren, we can add that Soderblom has gotten a good look / developing to make it 8)
- Who gets looks?
- Bubble team

Next season 2025/26 would be equal to Tampa 2014. Who gets added ? Lots of options.

 

[Perfect Human]

I like what Yzerman is doing, but there is no core if he doesn’t sign Mo and Ray soon.

 

[lilidk]

Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson and ASP should be core of this team
Players around core and could become one are Danielson, Kasper, MBN, Cossa
Then we have Augustine ,Buchelnikov, Plante , Soderblom, Buium, Wallinder Savage, AJo, Berggren, Mazur Rasmussen, Veleno , Lombardi, Becher.....
Pretty much we set for success for many years to come. My biggest question is do we have a head coach who could make it happen .
My second question is , could our top prospects have someone to learn from. Example, we got Tarasenko and Kane, could they play with Danielson, Mazur, Kasper, Berggren.
Third question is , can we get good veteran defansman, who could be still on the top of his game

 

[Gniwder]

That's still a poor example to support your thesis. Two of those guys were acquired via trade. As was much of their key pieces. Trades, FA signings, waiver claims, it was honestly a pretty rag-tag bunch on that roster. I highly doubt they expected Forsling to be their best d-man when they claimed him for free.

Overall Florida's pretty weird, not even a top 10 regular season team the last 2 years. That's another factor to look at. A team built to win in the playoffs may not always be the same team that dominates in the regular season. Do we want to be Toronto/Carolina, or do we want to be LA/Florida/Vegas/etc?

The obvious answer there is Florida/Vegas. They're built for the playoffs, not regular season. President's Trophy means nothing.

As for UFAs and trades, it's like you only read the first sentence of my post. Virtually all of Stevie's signings and trades are meaningless aside from Cossa (Mantha trade), and that's the one pick that was a bit of a gamble. All goalies are by nature because they're so unpredictable.

 

[norrisnick]

The obvious answer there is Florida/Vegas. They're built for the playoffs, not regular season. President's Trophy means nothing.

As for UFAs and trades, it's like you only read the first sentence of my post. Virtually all of Stevie's signings and trades are meaningless aside from Cossa (Mantha trade), and that's the one pick that was a bit of a gamble. All goalies are by nature because they're so unpredictable.

Exactly. So why worry about them? Placeholders gonna placeholder.

 

[dalem177]

Mantha

 

[Gniwder]

Exactly. So why worry about them? Placeholders gonna placeholder.

Maybe he should do something more than sign placeholders? 3 more years of Copp and 4 more years of Compher....

View attachment 903146

To be fair, I was talking about the return on the trade, which is basically Cossa at this point. (Technically speaking, it was Cossa and Buch, but Stevie traded up to get Cossa.)

I was not referencing "The One Who Shall Not Be Named" as a current player.

 

[FMichael]

Larkin, Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson and ASP should be core of this team
Players around core and could become one are Danielson, Kasper, MBN, Cossa
Then we have Augustine ,Buchelnikov, Plante , Soderblom, Buium, Wallinder Savage, AJo, Berggren, Mazur Rasmussen, Veleno , Lombardi, Becher.....
Pretty much we set for success for many years to come. My biggest question is do we have a head coach who could make it happen .
My second question is , could our top prospects have someone to learn from. Example, we got Tarasenko and Kane, could they play with Danielson, Mazur, Kasper, Berggren.
Third question is , can we get good veteran defansman, who could be still on the top of his game

Not meaning to point your post out in particular, but what I find common in this topic is how DeBrincat isn’t mentioned that much…

 

[norrisnick]

Maybe he should do something more than sign placeholders? 3 more years of Copp and 4 more years of Compher....

Right.... all those franchise altering FAs that are just passing the Wings by. I guess he is dumb for not signing any of them...

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

Right.... all those franchise altering FAs that are just passing the Wings by. I guess he is dumb for not signing any of them...

Exactly. We could have that franchise d man in... *checks notes* Erik Gudbranson?

 

[dalem177]

Maybe he should do something more than sign placeholders? 3 more years of Copp and 4 more years of Compher....



To be fair, I was talking about the return on the trade, which is basically Cossa at this point. (Technically speaking, it was Cossa and Buch, but Stevie traded up to get Cossa.)

I was not referencing "The One Who Shall Not Be Named" as a current player.

Hey, my schtick is my schtick - gotta grind it out every time.

Besides, ain't nothing else going on in hockeyworld for the Wings.

 

[lilidk]

Not meaning to point your post out in particular, but what I find common in this topic is how DeBrincat isn’t mentioned that much…

Cat is small and slow. He should be another player , kids should learn from, Buchelnikov should be nice replacement of Debrincat.

 

[Gniwder]

Not meaning to point your post out in particular, but what I find common in this topic is how DeBrincat isn’t mentioned that much…

Cat is the type of player that gets a team into the playoffs, but not the type that can get a team to the Cup. The same could be said about Kane and Tank at this point in their careers, though they've won in the past. I just look at all of those trade & signings and think "well, better than more Copps".

What's more fascinating is that the same people who complained that Kenny made moves to extend the playoff streak are now content with a team that doesn't have a chance at the Cup. Mind you that I hope I'm wrong, and Nate & MBN both become elite first liners and push Larkin down to the second line. Probability is low, though much higher than Cleveland ever touching NHL ice (regular season).

 

[Retire91]

Florida just won the Cup, and their top 3 players are #2OA, #2OA, and #6OA picks. Bob was signed as UFA, and Verhaeghe as well. (Granted Bob's contract looked ugly as hell until this season.)

Meanwhile Stevie's signing Copp, Compher, Holl, Chiarot, and trading for Vrana, Petry, Fabbri, Walman, Kostin, and Husso. those trades where Stevie "fleeced" the other GM turned out to be nothing trades with the possible exception of Mantha/Vrana trade if Cossa becomes a starter.

Stevie doesn't like to take chances, and playing it safe as GM almost guarantees mediocrity or worse.

It's crazy I raced this dude in the 100 yard dash. They stated 50 yards behind the starting line and I started 50 yards ahead of the starting line. What's crazy is I won and it wasn't even close.

 

[norrisnick]

Cat is the type of player that gets a team into the playoffs, but not the type that can get a team to the Cup. The same could be said about Kane and Tank at this point in their careers, though they've won in the past. I just look at all of those trade & signings and think "well, better than more Copps".

What's more fascinating is that the same people who complained that Kenny made moves to extend the playoff streak are now content with a team that doesn't have a chance at the Cup. Mind you that I hope I'm wrong, and Nate & MBN both become elite first liners and push Larkin down to the second line. Probability is low, though much higher than Cleveland ever touching NHL ice (regular season).

Nowhere near as fascinating as the people that apparently don't see the difference between the current and future outlooks for the 2016 roster and the 2024 roster.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Virtually all of Stevie's signings and trades are meaningless aside from Cossa (Mantha trade), and that's the one pick that was a bit of a gamble.

I'm not sure where the line is drawn between meaningless and not.

Jacob Markström last 3 seasons: .907sv%, 2.62GAA
Cam Talbot last 3 seasons: .909sv%, 2.70GAA

One of them is viewed as a major addition, the other is meaningless. I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Yzerman looks at it too; should we really be paying 1st round picks and prospects/young roster players for players who are only marginally better than what we can get in FA for "only" cap space?

Imo this is the riskiest point of the rebuild because if you're sitting there thinking none of our prospects could possibly exceed expectations it starts getting real attractive to trade a few of them. That's how you end up acquiring Andrew Raycroft for the price of Tuukka Rask, a Scott Gomez for the price of young Ryan McDonagh, or even moving a Carter Verhaeghe because you don't have patience for anyone not developing ultra-fast.

 

[norrisnick]

I'm not sure where the line is drawn between meaningless and not.

Jacob Markström last 3 seasons: .907sv%, 2.62GAA
Cam Talbot last 3 seasons: .909sv%, 2.70GAA

One of them is viewed as a major addition, the other is meaningless. I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Yzerman looks at it too; should we really be paying 1st round picks and prospects/young roster players for players who are only marginally better than what we can get in FA for "only" cap space?

Imo this is the riskiest point of the rebuild because if you're sitting there thinking none of our prospects could possibly exceed expectations it starts getting real attractive to trade a few of them. That's how you end up acquiring Andrew Raycroft for the price of Tuukka Rask, a Scott Gomez for the price of young Ryan McDonagh, or even moving a Carter Verhaeghe because you don't have patience for anyone not developing ultra-fast.

My use of meaningless refers to no FA signing will be in a position of significance, if on the team at all anymore, if/when this team becomes competitive.