Yzerman is telling you his philosophy if you listen!

[Henkka]

Larkin is not Steve Yzerman. I’m not sure why that example is brought up over and over.

That's just coincidence, because this team is acting kind of same way than early 90's Red Wings. Larkin will be the elder statesman there, when the younger core will bring the success.

 

[RedHawkDown]

That's just coincidence, because this team is acting kind of same way than early 90's Red Wings. Larkin will be the elder statesman there, when the younger core will bring the success.

Except Yzerman was still 2nd in the team in scoring the year they won the cup and then 1st the following year when they repeated. You can argue he was not as good as his 100+ pt seasons but he didn’t really decline much at all. It’s a bad comparison because Larkin is extremely unlikely to be leading this team in scoring at 33. By the time the other kids are NHLers, we will need to find another 1C.

 

[ShakenNotStirred]

Who said drive a wedge between players? A reporter asking Steve why shorting our already weak center depth is a good idea isn't driving a wedge between players, It's literally calling Yzerman's thought process into question.

What I think is, if a boss isn't doing their job, it's on the people surrounding them to call them to task, and when you're a public facing entity where your fans are your consumers and the method of communicating with them is through the press, the press needs to represent said consumers in asking honest questions.

The wings exist because we spend money on them, guess what happens if we don't spend the money on them? They cease to exist and that boot taste leaves your mouth.

Haha. No one is "cancelling" the red wings. We are all still here and are not going anywhere. Did you leave after 2019?

Bootlicking? Good one. I'm not delusional/entitled to believe that a sports organization owes me answers or that the media is my advocate.

Stop whining like a dog begging for a bone and watch or don't watch. Simple.

 

[Winger98]

Because it worked so well chasing Suter and Parise. And Stamkos. And then Stamkos again. And I'm sure Marner and Connor are chomping at the bit to get here.

High end free agents will have zero reason to come to Detroit until this roster is one piece away from serious Cup contention. And even once Cossa and Danielson and ASP are on the team and playing well, Detroit will still need more than one piece for serious Cup contention.

Every season that Yzerman fails to make a significant trade is a wasted year. A holding pattern. A delay before the team is improving fast enough to get the rebuild back on track.

The kids alone simply will not be enough...because no team in history has beaten the odds to draft well enough that they didn't need multiple external pieces to supplement their drafting.

And? The minimum number of guys on the roster right now who weren't originally wings property is something like 13 guys out of 26. He's clearly fine going out and getting guys from other places.

Maybe we should be concerned with supplementing Cossa, Danielson, and ASP when they are actually on the team.

 

[Retire91]

Delusional wishful thinking. Ottawa adds Yakemchuk. CBJ adds Del Bel Belluz and Lindstrom and continued growth from Fantilli. Montreal adds Demidov. Danielson and ASP aren’t going to beat any of that.

It truly is incredible how little most of you know of the rest of the league. It’s like you guys think we are the only team in the NHL that drafts players.

Oh right, it's delusional to take the performance of someone who has literally won at every level of competition he has ever been in and already has the track record of having built 95% of tampa's cup team and took the Redwings from a history making dumpster fire of bottom to having a solid core with prospects still in the pipeline. It's delusional to see that he has improved the team every year with this being the first notable regression in team play the entire time he has been here and not take into account that he literally "publicly said" he is not ready to pull the trigger yet. If it is less obvious to those of us folks "who know nothing about what the rest of the league is doing" that this is a matter of timing then I don't know what to tell you. Which Yzerman have you been watching? Obviously not the one who when he commits to something it happens? It's a tragedy to have a fan base so out of synch with what he is doing and maintains such unrealistic expectations of how fricking in the hole Holland left us. This was "never" going to be a 4-5 year rebuild. Give the guy a chance to adjust to the first season of regression during a time period where he is not ready to go aggressive on trading and signing yet.

Not shooting the messenger, but I would love to know what on earth led him to believe this.

In his own words, the focus was to improve defensively...so he continued to go the route of bargain bin defensemen and journeyman goaltending with Gustafsson and Talbot.

Did he think that Seider and Edvinsson would play 60 minutes a night? Or that the bump from the coaching change would magically last the entire season? (Or that the unsustainable shooting percentage from last year would somehow get even better?)

There's no connecting the dots here to build on good young players by adding... Wait for it... GOOD players. For any South Park fans out there, this is starting to sound a lot like Underpants Gnomes kinda logic. Step 1: draft well. Step 3: profit.

this is essentially the same team that missed the playoffs by one point

 

[dekelikekocur]

Haha. No one is "cancelling" the red wings. We are all still here and are not going anywhere. Did you leave after 2019?

Bootlicking? Good one. I'm not delusional/entitled to believe that a sports organization owes me answers or that the media is my advocate.

Stop whining like a dog begging for a bone and watch or don't watch. Simple.

Voting with your wallet isn't cancelling something so leave your reighwing bs out of the conversation. Wings got a bump the last couple years but there's a reason when Mike bought the team they were giving away cars and other things to get people to come to games, I'd rather not revisit the dead things era but we're fast approaching that level of mediocrity.

 

[SirloinUB]

What narrative is that, exactly?

I have seen multiple people suggest Mrazek is a quality goalie or an upgrade, so I posted his stats. His stats that say as of this season he is bottom 10 in Save %.

If you want to talk about the broader implications of the trade, we can.

This, like the Walman trade, is a move done with a level of urgency that I just do not understand.

I would have let a host of scenarios play out before I would have resorted to this type of move.

I would have seen if I could re-sign Lyon for a similar AAV. I would have given Cossa chance to see how he looks in training camp. I would have explored some cheap options in free agency.

I would have done ALL OF THESE THINGS before I trade for a 33 year old goalie who is objectively overpaid for the level he is currently playing at with 1 year left on his contract.

I'm not sure this trade is awful as much as I just view it as totally unnecessary.

For better or worse, this move suggests they aren’t high on bringing Lyon back. That’s definitely one of the more interesting takeaways.

He’s clearly trying to buy Cossa/Augustine time without committing to term in the crease. If you believe in Cossa, a vet on a 1 year contract is ideal.

If yzerman signed mrazek as a UFA on 1 x 5.5 people would be less rattled. Could you find a cheaper option in UFA? Maybe. Is it better? doubtful. If he is he'd be requiring term

 

[Frk It]

For better or worse, this move suggests they aren’t high on bringing Lyon back. That’s definitely one of the more interesting takeaways.

He’s clearly trying to buy Cossa/Augustine time without committing to term in the crease. If you believe in Cossa, a vet on a 1 year contract is ideal.

If yzerman signed mrazek as a UFA on 1 x 5.5 people would less rattled? Could you find a cheaper option in UFA? Maybe. Is it better? doubtful. If he is he'd be requiring term

Those are some good points.

The more I look at this, the more I guess it's whatever. I did not realize that Mrazek and Lyon were both similar in age and pretty close in SV%. In my head I was thinking Lyon was like 4-5 years younger and also had better stats.

I guess it is going to come down to if Mrazek looks like a solid #2 when he plays for us, or is more a #3/borderline AHL guy. I am concerned at this stage of his career that it might be the latter. Which is not great for 4+ million.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Oh right, it's delusional to take the performance of someone who has literally won at every level of competition he has ever been in and already has the track record of having built 95% of tampa's cup team and took the Redwings from a history making dumpster fire of bottom to having a solid core with prospects still in the pipeline. It's delusional to see that he has improved the team every year with this being the first notable regression in team play the entire time he has been here and not take into account that he literally "publicly said" he is not ready to pull the trigger yet. If it is less obvious to those of us folks "who know nothing about what the rest of the league is doing" that this is a matter of timing then I don't know what to tell you. Which Yzerman have you been watching? Obviously not the one who when he commits to something it happens? It's a tragedy to have a fan base so out of synch with what he is doing and maintains such unrealistic expectations of how fricking in the hole Holland left us. This was "never" going to be a 4-5 year rebuild. Give the guy a chance to adjust to the first season of regression during a time period where he is not ready to go aggressive on trading and signing yet.


this is essentially the same team that missed the playoffs by one point

You went off a lot in here but didn't address anything I said. I'm talking about our prospects compared to our competition (CBJ, OTT, MTL, to a lesser extent BUF, NJD,PHI). Everything you said has nothing to do with that.

"Give the guy a chance" He's been given many chances. He's on year 6 of his own tenure without playoffs, going on 9 years total; it's one of the longest droughts in all of pro sports FYI (tied for 4th). You can be happy accepting abject failure, I'm not.

There are many teams around the league who started worse off than us and have already lapped us because of a combination of good drafting, good trades, and good to great waiver/FA pickups. Many of these did it without a top 2-3 pick, or only 1 top 2-3 pick. Fact.

I don't care if he publicly said he's not ready to pull the trigger - am I supposed to excuse his incompetence because he publicly admits it?

Here's what our direct competitors in the East are doing, just so you're aware:
Montreal has Demidov coming who is likely a future Kucherov. Hage who looks every bit as good as Danielson. Fowler and Dobes who are close to Cossa and Augustine.

Philly will see continued massive growth from Michkov. Luchanko coming who looks solid. Another top 10 pick this year.

OTT has Yakemchuk and just added Zetterlund and Cozens, both of whom have significant untapped potential.

CBJ has seen massive growth from Marchenko and Voronkov, and Johnson is now a PPG player. They've got Mateychuk with big potential, plus Cayden Lindstrom coming, Fantilli poised to break out into a PPG+ player. Luca DB Belluz who looks like a very good player and had a fantastic stint in the NHL this year, and is at least at a Danielson level of prospect at this point. Then there's Jordan Dumais too.

Then there's teams like NJ that will continue to get better with Silayev and Casey stepping onto the team. Washington with Leonard, I. Protas, and Miro on the way after Ovechkin retires.

Danielson, ASP, Cossa, Buchelnikov, and MBN are all fantastic pieces. If you think they're much better than the above and will, by themselves, propel us past these teams, then yes, you are delusional.

For what seems like the 1000th time, it is not enough to get better. You have to get better relative to other teams.

 

[Frk It]

You went off a lot in here but didn't address anything I said. I'm talking about our prospects compared to our competition (CBJ, OTT, MTL, to a lesser extent BUF, NJD,PHI). Everything you said has nothing to do with that.

"Give the guy a chance" He's been given many chances. He's on year 6 of his own tenure without playoffs, going on 9 years total; it's one of the longest droughts in all of pro sports FYI (tied for 4th). You can be happy accepting abject failure, I'm not.

There are many teams around the league who started worse off than us and have already lapped us because of a combination of good drafting, good trades, and good to great waiver/FA pickups. Many of these did it without a top 2-3 pick, or only 1 top 2-3 pick. Fact.

I don't care if he publicly said he's not ready to pull the trigger - am I supposed to excuse his incompetence because he publicly admits it?

Here's what our direct competitors in the East are doing, just so you're aware:
Montreal has Demidov coming who is likely a future Kucherov. Hage who looks every bit as good as Danielson. Fowler and Dobes who are close to Cossa and Augustine.

Philly will see continued massive growth from Michkov. Luchanko coming who looks solid. Another top 10 pick this year.

OTT has Yakemchuk and just added Zetterlund and Cozens, both of whom have significant untapped potential.

CBJ has seen massive growth from Marchenko and Voronkov, and Johnson is now a PPG player. They've got Mateychuk with big potential, plus Cayden Lindstrom coming, Fantilli poised to break out into a PPG+ player. Luca DB Belluz who looks like a very good player and had a fantastic stint in the NHL this year, and is at least at a Danielson level of prospect at this point. Then there's Jordan Dumais too.

Then there's teams like NJ that will continue to get better with Silayev and Casey stepping onto the team. Washington with Leonard, I. Protas, and Miro on the way after Ovechkin retires.

Danielson, ASP, Cossa, Buchelnikov, and MBN are all fantastic pieces. If you think they're much better than the above and will, by themselves, propel us past these teams, then yes, you are delusional.

For what seems like the 1000th time, it is not enough to get better. You have to get better relative to other teams.

I do think you are choosing to look at other teams situations more favorably than ours and it really just comes down to perspective.

You are suggesting these teams all have so much going for them and we have nothing, and I don't think that is the case.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I do think you are choosing to look at other teams situations more favorably than ours and it really just comes down to perspective.

You are suggesting these teams all have so much going for them and we have nothing, and I don't think that is the case.

I didn't say that at all. I'm saying these teams all have just as much going for them as we do. These teams (namely OTT/CBJ/NJD/WSH) are also currently better than us. Therefore, in order for us to have any chance of passing them, we have to look beyond prospects, becuase these other teams also all have great prosepcts and young players. That's my point. Say its EA NHL and we're 80 OVR, OTT 82 OVR, CBJ 83 OVR. If we all add +4, they're still ahead of us and we're still out of the playoffs. That's my point.

Over and over on this board people keep repeating that the kids will make this team great again without realizing that other teams also all have great kids, and unless you're talking about a Matthews/McDavid/Marner/MacKinnon/Drai etc level talent, prospects alone will not put you over the top. They'll keep you afloat, but you need more than that to actually take the next step.

 

[SirloinUB]

Those are some good points.

The more I look at this, the more I guess it's whatever. I did not realize that Mrazek and Lyon were both similar in age and pretty close in SV%. In my head I was thinking Lyon was like 4-5 years younger and also had better stats.

I guess it is going to come down to if Mrazek looks like a solid #2 when he plays for us, or is more a #3/borderline AHL guy. I am concerned at this stage of his career that it might be the latter. Which is not great for 4+ million.

Totally fair. And for the record, I'm not trying to frame this as 4D chess/an epic trade for the Red Wings.

Is it a big upgrade? Definitely not. I just see it as a practical move that maintains flexibility in a rebuild while giving our bottom 6 a minor boost this year.

 

[19 for president]

Except Yzerman was still 2nd in the team in scoring the year they won the cup and then 1st the following year when they repeated. You can argue he was not as good as his 100+ pt seasons but he didn’t really decline much at all. It’s a bad comparison because Larkin is extremely unlikely to be leading this team in scoring at 33. By the time the other kids are NHLers, we will need to find another 1C.

Yeah there are a couple issues with a Larkin elder statesman vs Yzerman in our early cup years.

1) There is no Feds in the system to take on the harder defensive assignments and be the 1A to Yzerman's 1B center during those early cup years. If we had one I'd be way less concerned with our timeline. There is a very outside chance that Danielson could be it, but I think both he and Kasper max out as 2 Cs.

2) Yzerman was a much smarter and skilled player than Larkin. When Yzerman's knees went he still had his IQ to fall back on, and Yzerman is one of the smarter players to ever play the game. Larkin's game is 75% skating and like 25% shot. Larkin doesn't have the IQ to make the slow down transition that Yzerman did, not to mention the game now is played at 200% the speed that it was in the late 90s. Its way more of a N/S league vs the E/W game a lot of those dominant teams in the 90s played.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

For what seems like the 1000th time, it is not enough to get better. You have to get better relative to other teams.

The top 3 teams in our division mortgaged their future for their current windows.

Florida will likely remain scary for at least a couple more years, but those guys are all going to be on the wrong side of 30 sooner than later.

Toronto and Tampa have 0 future, and are completely in "win now" mode.

Buffalo looks like they're going to enter another rebuild soon.

Ottawa and Montreal have nice pieces, but to say every one of their top prospects clears ours is shortsighted. Axel is the best defense prospect on the planet not named Nikishin. Cossa and Trey are both top 5 G prospects. Buch looks every bit as dangerous as Demidov.

The lack of offense from Nate and MBN this year is casting fog over some people's eyes it seems. They were never drafted to be offensive dynamos. They were drafted to be difficult to play against, which is exactly what they are.

So in 2027, when dudes like Axel, Nate, MBN, Cossa and Buch are on the roster, that's when the powerhouses will be falling off. That's when the Wings are primed for serious pushes.

TL;DR: Sometimes the best move is to sit back and watch your biggest opponents squander their future at the same time.

 

[jkutswings]

And? The minimum number of guys on the roster right now who weren't originally wings property is something like 13 guys out of 26. He's clearly fine going out and getting guys from other places.

Maybe we should be concerned with supplementing Cossa, Danielson, and ASP when they are actually on the team.

He's clearly fine with getting below average to awful players from other places. That's the part that needs to be upgraded SIGNIFICANTLY. Every year that an impact trade doesn't happen, it tightens the timeline that it MUST happen if the rebuild is going to work.

So is it possible that he could add all the kids and then work a home run of a trade? Yes. But 1) that's leaving yourself zero margin for error by waiting until your window of contention should be officially underway, and 2) it's shutting the door on the playoffs for yet another year or two, which risks players like Larkin and Debrincat wanting out before this glacier finally gets up to speed.

The remaining kids that Yzerman is depending on so heavily had better be downright amazing in the NHL, or this rebuild will likely end with a giant sad trombone.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Voting with your wallet isn't cancelling something so leave your reighwing bs out of the conversation. Wings got a bump the last couple years but there's a reason when Mike bought the team they were giving away cars and other things to get people to come to games, I'd rather not revisit the dead things era but we're fast approaching that level of mediocrity.

From 1967 to 1983 the Red Wings made the playoffs two times.

That run started in the original 6 era where only 2 teams missed the playoffs and ended in an era where only 5 out of 21 teams missed the playoffs.

This rebuilding stretch has not been fun but it's still not close to how bad the Dead Wings era was.

 

[SirloinUB]

He's clearly fine with getting below average to awful players from other places. That's the part that needs to be upgraded SIGNIFICANTLY. Every year that an impact trade doesn't happen, it tightens the timeline that it MUST happen if the rebuild is going to work.

So is it possible that he could add all the kids and then work a home run of a trade? Yes. But 1) that's leaving yourself zero margin for error by waiting until your window of contention should be officially underway, and 2) it's shutting the door on the playoffs for yet another year or two, which risks players like Larkin and Debrincat wanting out before this glacier finally gets up to speed.

The remaining kids that Yzerman is depending on so heavily had better be downright amazing in the NHL, or this rebuild will likely end with a giant sad trombone.

why can't he make that move in a couple of years when his drafted players are 22-26 and actually entering their primes?

That's not to say, it can't/shouldn't happen now but I fundamentally disagree that it must happen sooner than later.

 

[Retire91]

You went off a lot in here but didn't address anything I said. I'm talking about our prospects compared to our competition (CBJ, OTT, MTL, to a lesser extent BUF, NJD,PHI). Everything you said has nothing to do with that.

"Give the guy a chance" He's been given many chances. He's on year 6 of his own tenure without playoffs, going on 9 years total; it's one of the longest droughts in all of pro sports FYI (tied for 4th). You can be happy accepting abject failure, I'm not.

There are many teams around the league who started worse off than us and have already lapped us because of a combination of good drafting, good trades, and good to great waiver/FA pickups. Many of these did it without a top 2-3 pick, or only 1 top 2-3 pick. Fact.

I don't care if he publicly said he's not ready to pull the trigger - am I supposed to excuse his incompetence because he publicly admits it?

Here's what our direct competitors in the East are doing, just so you're aware:
Montreal has Demidov coming who is likely a future Kucherov. Hage who looks every bit as good as Danielson. Fowler and Dobes who are close to Cossa and Augustine.

Philly will see continued massive growth from Michkov. Luchanko coming who looks solid. Another top 10 pick this year.

OTT has Yakemchuk and just added Zetterlund and Cozens, both of whom have significant untapped potential.

CBJ has seen massive growth from Marchenko and Voronkov, and Johnson is now a PPG player. They've got Mateychuk with big potential, plus Cayden Lindstrom coming, Fantilli poised to break out into a PPG+ player. Luca DB Belluz who looks like a very good player and had a fantastic stint in the NHL this year, and is at least at a Danielson level of prospect at this point. Then there's Jordan Dumais too.

Then there's teams like NJ that will continue to get better with Silayev and Casey stepping onto the team. Washington with Leonard, I. Protas, and Miro on the way after Ovechkin retires.

Danielson, ASP, Cossa, Buchelnikov, and MBN are all fantastic pieces. If you think they're much better than the above and will, by themselves, propel us past these teams, then yes, you are delusional.

For what seems like the 1000th time, it is not enough to get better. You have to get better relative to other teams.

If you want to maintain a salty outlook on Yzerman's performance just for the sake of being salty by all means have a party. What other teams are doing has nothing to do with a rebuilding team because a GM in the process of rebuilding is placing a priority on timing. We are not competing with other teams for free market talent we are focusing on putting the best core together. And Yzerman said many time publicly buckle up for the long term we are doing this through the draft. When he feels the core he is looking for from the draft is on the ice that is when he will go full acquisition mode. That is when we are in the market to compete for trade based and free agent talent. Just because the rebuild is not on your schedule doesn't mean the GM is doing a bad job. And for the record not a single other team started out worse than us.

You being out of synch with what the GM is doing does not make others delusional, the relative to other teams part comes once he has assembled his rebuild squad, and he has a huge track record of moving the dial once he fully commits which is what he publicly just said that he does not feel its time yet

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

He's clearly fine with getting below average to awful players from other places. That's the part that needs to be upgraded SIGNIFICANTLY. Every year that an impact trade doesn't happen, it tightens the timeline that it MUST happen if the rebuild is going to work.

So is it possible that he could add all the kids and then work a home run of a trade? Yes. But 1) that's leaving yourself zero margin for error by waiting until your window of contention should be officially underway, and 2) it's shutting the door on the playoffs for yet another year or two, which risks players like Larkin and Debrincat wanting out before this glacier finally gets up to speed.

The remaining kids that Yzerman is depending on so heavily had better be downright amazing in the NHL, or this rebuild will likely end with a giant sad trombone.

The Wings are still thin on talent. It's not easy to make an impact trade without making the team worse overall.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but top players want to go to top teams, and these days virtually all of them have NMCs. So you get what you get and often end up overpaying mediocre UFAs. So I don't know that it's so much that he's fine with it as much as he's trying not to sign some albatross contract while the team is rebuilding.

 

[Winger98]

He's clearly fine with getting below average to awful players from other places. That's the part that needs to be upgraded SIGNIFICANTLY. Every year that an impact trade doesn't happen, it tightens the timeline that it MUST happen if the rebuild is going to work.

So is it possible that he could add all the kids and then work a home run of a trade? Yes. But 1) that's leaving yourself zero margin for error by waiting until your window of contention should be officially underway, and 2) it's shutting the door on the playoffs for yet another year or two, which risks players like Larkin and Debrincat wanting out before this glacier finally gets up to speed.

The remaining kids that Yzerman is depending on so heavily had better be downright amazing in the NHL, or this rebuild will likely end with a giant sad trombone.

I disagree that it gives him less margin for error or that it rules out the playoffs in the next two years. I think going too hard for a deal now might give you less margin for error, because I don't think we have the extra pieces to throw around. So any move we make, we better be pretty sure on from our end. And we are still fighting for the playoffs this year. We were a tiebreaker away from making it last year. I don't know why we won't be fighting for the playoffs next year, too.

I look at the wings and I don't see us hoping desperately that every kid becomes a superstar, but that they become NHLers. Because the more holes we fill from within, the more assets that makes available behind them, and the less resources we have to spend just to fill holes because we were getting nothing from our system before.

And I expect Yzerman to make moves, but what he's outlined and what I think many of us want, are not deals that come around often. If we're wanting a homerun, I think it's whatever equivalent a deal would be to Boston sending Seguin to Dallas. Which, maybe Debrincat shouldn't get too comfortable because it's not hard to see him as the Loui Ericssson part of that deal for us.

All season I've been saying we are getting close to when Yzerman is going to be able to wheel and deal more, and we're going to have more kids stepping into the lineup. I really don't get the doom and gloom lately around here, and I expect a fun summer.

 

[Henkka]

this is essentially the same team that missed the playoffs by one point

Hmm..

Offence was
Perron - Larkin - Raymond (insert Kasper in here)
DeBrincat - Compher - Kane
Ras - Copp - Fischer
Fabbri - Veleno - Sprong

5 forwards gone and 1 injured. Kasper, Tarasenko, Berggren, Söderblom, Smith, Motte as replacements. Shine as Czarnik.

Defence was
Chiarot - Seider
Määttä - Petry
Gostisbehere - Holl

3 guys did change, 2 kids in and Gustafsson.

Lyon --> Talbot
Husso --> Lyon
Reimer --> Mrazek (and Husso, gone)

Half of the offence, half of the defence and half of the goalies have changed, in one calendar year.

That's not "basicly the same team".

 

[Retire91]

Hmm..

Offence was
Perron - Larkin - Raymond (insert Kasper in here)
DeBrincat - Compher - Kane
Ras - Copp - Fischer
Fabbri - Veleno - Sprong

5 forwards gone and 1 injured. Kasper, Tarasenko, Berggren, Söderblom, Smith, Motte as replacements. Shine as Czarnik.

Defence was
Chiarot - Seider
Määttä - Petry
Gostisbehere - Holl

3 guys did change, 2 kids in and Gustafsson.

Lyon --> Talbot
Husso --> Lyon
Reimer --> Mrazek (and Husso, gone)

Half of the offence, half of the defence and half of the goalies have changed, in one calendar year.

That's not "basicly the same team".

Fair enough. I am thinking more metaphorically I don't really look at the team, even though the players changed, and feel like this team is significantly different than last team. Maybe he spends to make room for Perron and Gostisbehere again this year and we make it, to what end we get destroyed in the playoffs anyway. What I am mainly meaning by it is we are still in a coasting period while draft picks get their legs under them. Yzerman could easily get us in the playoffs the problem I am speculating is he views what it would take to get there as detrimental to his longer term vision. I am also inclined to think that we are only a season or two from him going all in on the trading and signing process that people are clamoring to see.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The top 3 teams in our division mortgaged their future for their current windows.

Florida will likely remain scary for at least a couple more years, but those guys are all going to be on the wrong side of 30 sooner than later.

Toronto and Tampa have 0 future, and are completely in "win now" mode.

Buffalo looks like they're going to enter another rebuild soon.

Ottawa and Montreal have nice pieces, but to say every one of their top prospects clears ours is shortsighted. Axel is the best defense prospect on the planet not named Nikishin. Cossa and Trey are both top 5 G prospects. Buch looks every bit as dangerous as Demidov.

The lack of offense from Nate and MBN this year is casting fog over some people's eyes it seems. They were never drafted to be offensive dynamos. They were drafted to be difficult to play against, which is exactly what they are.

So in 2027, when dudes like Axel, Nate, MBN, Cossa and Buch are on the roster, that's when the powerhouses will be falling off. That's when the Wings are primed for serious pushes.

TL;DR: Sometimes the best move is to sit back and watch your biggest opponents squander their future at the same time.

I'm not sure where you guys are reading this. I never said this. All I'm saying is that our prospects do not easily clear theirs, i.e. it's relatively even between us and them. CBJ too. In order to be better than those teams, we have to do better than just stay even.

Also, I love Buch and can see him being a Panarin level guy if everything goes right but it's not really fair to say he's every bit as dangerous as Demidov. Demidov is setting all-time KHL records for scoring at his age. He looks better than Michkov did, than Kaprizov did, etc. He's absolutely lighting that league on fire and it's not a knock against Buch to say Demidov is much better.

Finally, drafting top 10-15 picks to just be "hard to play against" is a recipe for failure. You can get these players in FA. If both Nate and MBN end up hard to play against 40-50 pt guys, all you've done is replace Andrew Copp and added a Blake Coleman, not actually improve the team significantly from where it is now.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The Wings are still thin on talent. It's not easy to make an impact trade without making the team worse overall.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but top players want to go to top teams, and these days virtually all of them have NMCs. So you get what you get and often end up overpaying mediocre UFAs. So I don't know that it's so much that he's fine with it as much as he's trying not to sign some albatross contract while the team is rebuilding.

This is a very standard copout. You don't need to just restrict it to NMC trades and UFAs. Fabbro in CBJ, Zetterlund in OTT, Toews in COL, Forsling in FLA; many teams have found ways to get fantastic value through either waiver wire pickups or low-cost trades identifying underutilized players. Yzerman has completely failed at that, and it doesn't require mortgaging the future or giving up significant assets.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

This is a very standard copout. You don't need to just restrict it to NMC trades and UFAs. Fabbro in CBJ, Zetterlund in OTT, Toews in COL, Forsling in FLA; many teams have found ways to get fantastic value through either waiver wire pickups or low-cost trades identifying underutilized players. Yzerman has completely failed at that, and it doesn't require mortgaging the future or giving up significant assets.

And this is a falsehood. Of course you have to give up significant assets to get a good player, unless they become a complete surprise.

It's not a cop out. I'm giving the larger context of the situation. It's not like I'm saying Holl was a great signing. Yzerman has obviously been bad on some of his moves.

It's notable that you're going back 4 and 5 years for some of those examples and others are waiver-wire claims the Wings didn't have the opportunity to select.