Yzerman is Telling You His Philosophy if You Listen

[Hockeyfan2390]

I haven't seen, imo, genuine effort to try and win anything since Yzerman's gotten here.

Just the idea of 'building'. An that wormhole can go a lot of directions and waste lots of time.

Only thing that matters in sports is entertainment and winning. Everything is just word porn to waste your time/money.

Which is why team ownership (too bad that Prince Chris has no idea he owns a hockey team) needs to be clear with him this summer and give him a new edict of being comfortably in a playoff position by this time next year or it's time to move on.

You don't get to play it safe after 6 years of failure. I don't care about 2029. It's time to start winning now.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

 

[MBauer]

This it's all Holland's fault narrative is getting a bit tired. Mantha. Bertuzzi, Hronek, AA all were traded for picks that got us DeBrincat, ASP, Cossa, Buch etc .

Holland definitely botched his final two drafts here, which didn't help. He didn't exactly have a ton of draft capital to work with before those years, and did a pretty good job with what he had. Larkin at 15 was also a pretty big steal, despite everyone being kind of down on him right now.

Yzerman has had lots of draft picks over these 6 seasons, gonna need to start seeing more picks from the 2nd round and beyond start to make an impact real soon, and hopefully at least one difference maker.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's an excuse. It's true that we have had bad lottery luck, but that's not the only place you can get good-to-great-to-elite talent and it's crazy to keep pretending like it is.

Just use the other up-and-coming teams in the WC race across both conferences:
CBJ - Marchenko in the 2nd, Voronkov in the 4th round, Monahan as a great FA signing, Fabbro as a great waiver pickup
MTL - Hutson in the 2nd, Suzuki via a great trade
NYI - Horvat via trade, Romanov via trade, Sorokin late in the draft
Minnesota - Faber via a fantastic trade
STL- Broberg and Holloway both from offer sheets
UTAH - Sergachev via trade

I just went through a few teams. Obviously there are teams that aren't that good at this like Calgary, but those teams will suck forever, so I'm sure we aren't trying to emulate them. Yzerman needs to find talent outside of the 1st round of the draft. It's not optional. It's mandatory if we want to succeed. Whether that's through elite drafting (WSH, CBJ), free agency (FLA and others), trades (many), waiver pickups, offer sheets (STL), whatever...thats what makes a good GM.

My only problem with these types of 'grass is greener' breakdowns is that no team gets everything right and context matters. Cherrypicking the good ignores all the mistakes or the reasons why teams did things.

Surely, if Yzerman's 1st rounders were trending worse he'd have been forced to get creative to add talent. Surely when the team is closer to competing, he'll be more aggressive with trades/UFA to round out the roster.

 

[jkutswings]

Surely, if Yzerman's 1st rounders were trending worse he'd have been forced to get creative to add talent. Surely when the team is closer to competing, he'll be more aggressive with trades/UFA to round out the roster.

That's a great approach to just being an average team. Cup contending teams do a very good job of drafting AND get creative to add talent, not an either/or.

With what's on the roster and what's in the pipeline, Yzerman will have to hit an absolute home run on multiple trades / offer sheets / other external talent to get Detroit back on track for Cup contention.

 

[Snuggs]

IF Veleno/Rasmussen were so bad even Zadina why is Yzerman resigning them?

The Holland thing is old, stupid, near sighted, not as "in-depth" as everyone wants to devel into.

Same guys blaming Hollands picks liked the Rasmussen signing because Yzerman did it. Go look at the thread if you think I'm a jerk.

Yzerman/Red Wings staff have done a mountain of things wrong now outside of the 1st round and DeBrincat give'me.

 

[Winger98]

Agreed.

To be clear I'm not some Yzerman slappy. My off the cuff assessment is he did a good job digging out of the massive hole Holland dug and made some great 1st round draft picks but has faltered with free agent signings and late round picks (as far as I know, I don't really follow prospects).

Copp and Compher don't bother me as much as some folks, but when I look at Holl, Tarasenko, Gustaffson, whatever the hell happened with Walman, I'm not exactly impressed. I want some magic and shrewd moves, and there haven't been any in a while now. And this team needs some magic if it's gonna compete in the playoffs.

I'm not sure we're entirely out of that hole yet, though with Soderblom and Mazur being there to call up this season (despite injuries taking them out) we're a lot closer. Truth is we shouldn't have to go out and get guys like Watson, Tank, Compher, Mott, Holl, Gus, etc. to fill out every hole on this team, but that's what we've had to do because our farm was so empty of talent. And we have to have nearly every one of those guys go out and play at or above expectations because we're still so thin.

You have to be able to fill holes from within and we're finally getting there.

 

[Winger98]

IF Veleno/Rasmussen were so bad even Zadina why is Yzerman resigning them?

The Holland thing is old, stupid, near sighted, not as "in-depth" as everyone wants to devel into.

Same guys blaming Hollands picks liked the Rasmussen signing because Yzerman did it. Go look at the thread if you think I'm a jerk.

Because we could afford to scratch those lotto tickets and hope they continue developing. And if we don't re-sign them those are just more pieces we would have had to wade into free agency to replace, or shuttle picks out the door for 3rd/4th liners.

 

[Run the Jewels]

IF Veleno/Rasmussen were so bad even Zadina why is Yzerman resigning them?

The Holland thing is old, stupid, near sighted, not as "in-depth" as everyone wants to devel into.

Same guys blaming Hollands picks liked the Rasmussen signing because Yzerman did it. Go look at the thread if you think I'm a jerk.

Yzerman/Red Wings staff have done a mountain of things wrong now outside of the 1st round and DeBrincat give'me.

I'll repost more or less what I posted in the Detroit Downfall thread on the main board. Things you can legit criticize Yzerman for IMO:

1. Not firing Lalonde sooner
2. Not aggressively revamping his NA scouting
3. Not aggressively revamping his pro scouting

The end.

 

[Frk It]

I'll repost more or less what I posted in the Detroit Downfall thread on the main board. Things you can legit criticize Yzerman for IMO:

1. Not firing Lalonde sooner
2. Not aggressively revamping his NA scouting
3. Not aggressively revamping his pro scouting

The end.

Do we even know how many scouts have been retained vs let go on a yearly basis since Yzerman has been here?

 

[SantosHalper]

Do we even know how many scouts have been retained vs let go on a yearly basis since Yzerman has been here?

EP to the rescue!

2018-19 scouts:
Jeff Finley, head amateur scout (gone, 2019)
Ross Yates, amateur scout
Andrew Dickson, amateur scout (gone, 2019)
Brendan Flemming, amateur scout
Kelly Harper, amateur scout
Mark Mullen, amateur scout (gone, 2023)
Marty Stein, amateur scout (gone, 2021)
Bruce Haralson, pro scout (gone, 2021)
Archie Henderson, pro scout (gone, 2019)
Kirk Maltby, pro scout
Glenn Merkosky, pro scout (gone, 2019)

2019 new scouts:
Ryan Rezmiersky, head amateur scout (gone, 2022)
Jesse Wallin, head amateur scout
Kevin Gibson, amateur scout
Rob Rassey, amateur scout (gone, 2021)
Bryce Thoma, amateur scout
Kyle MacKinnon, pro scout
Chris Yzerman, pro scout
Phil Osaer, goalie scout
Thomas Carlsson, european scout

2021 new scouts:
Corey Crocker, amateur scout
Eric Soltys, pro scout (gone, 2022)
Greg Hawgood, amateur scout
Tommy Boustedt, european pro scout

2023 new scouts:
Brian Flynn, pro scout
Boyd Gordon, pro scout

Bolded=still in the org, european scouting staff been basically the same from Kenny's era. Carlsson and Boustedt new adds.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

EP to the rescue!

2018-19 scouts:
Jeff Finley, head amateur scout (gone, 2019)
Ross Yates, amateur scout
Andrew Dickson, amateur scout (gone, 2019)
Brendan Flemming, amateur scout
Kelly Harper, amateur scout
Mark Mullen, amateur scout (gone, 2023)
Marty Stein, amateur scout (gone, 2021)
Bruce Haralson, pro scout (gone, 2021)
Archie Henderson, pro scout (gone, 2019)
Kirk Maltby, pro scout
Glenn Merkosky, pro scout (gone, 2019)

2019 new scouts:
Ryan Rezmiersky, head amateur scout (gone, 2022)
Jesse Wallin, head amateur scout
Kevin Gibson, amateur scout
Rob Rassey, amateur scout (gone, 2021)
Bryce Thoma, amateur scout
Kyle MacKinnon, pro scout
Chris Yzerman, pro scout
Phil Osaer, goalie scout
Thomas Carlsson, european scout

2021 new scouts:
Corey Crocker, amateur scout
Eric Soltys, pro scout (gone, 2022)
Greg Hawgood, amateur scout
Tommy Boustedt, european pro scout

2023 new scouts:
Brian Flynn, pro scout
Boyd Gordon, pro scout

Bolded=still in the org, european scouting staff been basically the same from Kenny's era. Carlsson and Boustedt new adds.

Wonder if it was brother Chris who convinced Steve that signing Justin Holl to a 3-year contract was a good idea.

 

[USAHockey97]

It just feels like the third year in a row vying for the 10-15 pick. Just outside playoffs and not getting a high draft pick. I like our goaltending prospects. I think our defensive prospects are solid. If we add, one top 4 dman in trade or FA, we should be good. It’s the forwards, that I’m worried about. Outside of Raymond, I don’t see any elite talent there with the exception of Larkin. But Larkin is getting older and we don’t seem to have someone on the same level or better.

 

[Run the Jewels]

It just feels like the third year in a row vying for the 10-15 pick. Just outside playoffs and not getting a high draft pick. I like our goaltending prospects. I think our defensive prospects are solid. If we add, one top 4 dman in trade or FA, we should be good. It’s the forwards, that I’m worried about. Outside of Raymond, I don’t see any elite talent there with the exception of Larkin. But Larkin is getting older and we don’t seem to have someone on the same level or better.

Our starting lineup in October 2022

Kubalik-Larkin-Perron
Veleno-Copp-Raymond
Zadina-Suter-Oesterle
Soderblom-Rasmussen-Erne

Chiarot-Seider
Maata-Hronek
Hagg-Lindstrom

Husso

The roster is getting upgraded every single year.

 

[Ulysses31]

IF Veleno/Rasmussen were so bad even Zadina why is Yzerman resigning them?

The Holland thing is old, stupid, near sighted, not as "in-depth" as everyone wants to devel into.

Same guys blaming Hollands picks liked the Rasmussen signing because Yzerman did it. Go look at the thread if you think I'm a jerk.

Yzerman/Red Wings staff have done a mountain of things wrong now outside of the 1st round and DeBrincat give'me.

because they arent/ werent negative assets.

 

[USAHockey97]

Our starting lineup in October 2022

Kubalik-Larkin-Perron
Veleno-Copp-Raymond
Zadina-Suter-Oesterle
Soderblom-Rasmussen-Erne

Chiarot-Seider
Maata-Hronek
Hagg-Lindstrom

Husso

The roster is getting upgraded every single year.

Oh I agree. But is it getting upgraded enough? I would argue perhaps not with little opportunity through the draft to change that.

 

[HisNoodliness]

IF Veleno/Rasmussen were so bad even Zadina why is Yzerman resigning them?

The Holland thing is old, stupid, near sighted, not as "in-depth" as everyone wants to devel into.

Same guys blaming Hollands picks liked the Rasmussen signing because Yzerman did it. Go look at the thread if you think I'm a jerk.

Yzerman/Red Wings staff have done a mountain of things wrong now outside of the 1st round and DeBrincat give'me.

I hated the Rasmussen pick and my reaction to his signing was "meh." He doesn't bring much to the table and he's ripe to be replaced by an upgrade.

Still, I think one could like the Rasmussen signing while hating the pick. They had entirely different costs. Picking Rasmussen cost us the opportunity to draft a good player. I'd have picked Necas. Most of us would have taken Vilardi. Either way, that would have been great. We knew that Ras was a bad bet because he couldn't produce at ES and he clearly was using his man strength to bully the prepubescent teenagers in juniors.

On the other hand the Ras signing cost is a roster spot and a similar salary to anyone that would fill said roster spot. He was decent last year and so it was reasonable to hope he could still develop into a decent hockey player. After a rough year, it's looking like he's cooked. Regardless, the cost for signing him is insignificant.

I won't argue that we haven't made mistakes though. Our pro scouting as a whole has been atrocious. You'd make better choices picking names out of a hat.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I hated the Rasmussen pick and my reaction to his signing was "meh." He doesn't bring much to the table and he's ripe to be replaced by an upgrade.

Still, I think one could like the Rasmussen signing while hating the pick. They had entirely different costs. Picking Rasmussen cost us the opportunity to draft a good player. I'd have picked Necas. Most of us would have taken Vilardi. Either way, that would have been great. We knew that Ras was a bad bet because he couldn't produce at ES and he clearly was using his man strength to bully the prepubescent teenagers in juniors.

On the other hand the Ras signing cost is a roster spot and a similar salary to anyone that would fill said roster spot. He was decent last year and so it was reasonable to hope he could still develop into a decent hockey player. After a rough year, it's looking like he's cooked. Regardless, the cost for signing him is insignificant.

I won't argue that we haven't made mistakes though. Our pro scouting as a whole has been atrocious. You'd make better choices picking names out of a hat.

60 Career goals in 384 games. For a top ten first round pick, a guy that doesn't do anything good other than being tall he is definitely a bust.