Yzerman is Telling You His Philosophy if You Listen

[Ulysses31]

I don't think he will get 15. Rantanen signed for 12 and they are somewhat comparable statistically. I know Rantanen didn't hit UFA, so Marner will get more, but I don't think someone is giving him 15. I also don't think he will get much more if even that, then Matthews. I think it will be 12.75-13.75.

fair point but i disagree.

Some X factors there. Dallas has has low (or no?) state tax, went to the team he wanted to, and signed for 8 years opposed to 7 for a UFA. IMO he could have easily got a higher AAV as a UFA (prolly similar to marner).

If marner signs on the leafs i think it will be 14ish x 8.

Matthews arguably has a better contract than drai or anyone because of the term. He can cash in again at 30. He left aav on the table for less term for another fat contract sooner.

also too marner is notorious for his huge ego and drive to get highest AAV possible.

another HUGE factor is there at like 10 teams with a ton of AAV want to get back in the playoffs. Bruins (not if they rebuild but if they retool), BJs, DRW, hawks im hearing, NYI off the top of my head.

If marner lands in the east on a team not toronto it will b that much tougher to make it.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I think i rather tank at this point. Try to secure the best draft position.Call up Danielson, Wallinder and Cossa for experience.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I think i rather tank at this point. Try to secure the best draft position.Call up Danielson, Wallinder and Cossa for experience.

If you were going to tank, the move was to let Lalonde coach out the season. We were on pace for 70 points and likely would have finished with the 3rd worst record in the league. You can't bounce back and forth between trying to win and tanking for a draft pick.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

If you were going to tank, the move was to let Lalonde coach out the season. We were on pace for 70 points and likely would have finished with the 3rd worst record in the league. You can't bounce back and forth between trying to win and tanking for a draft pick.

Well you also can't go back in a time machine. Because then the move would be Necas over Ras, Hughes over Zadina etc. I am talking about what we can control now...

 

[Run the Jewels]

Well you also can't go back in a time machine. Because then the move would be Necas over Ras, Hughes over Zadina etc. I am talking about what we can control now...

I'm not talking about changing history, I'm talking about the direction the organization is headed and then doing a 180 and tank after the team has started to show clear improvement. No organization that is well run is doing what you suggest.

 

[datsyukfan]

If it takes 15 per year to get Marner and he will sign for that then you 100% do it. We are starved for elite talent with pretty much no realistic option to find it with where the team is at. Overpay because in 3 years he won’t be overpaid and you have 3 guys on excellent deals already so you can afford it

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

I don't think he will get 15. Rantanen signed for 12 and they are somewhat comparable statistically. I know Rantanen didn't hit UFA, so Marner will get more, but I don't think someone is giving him 15. I also don't think he will get much more if even that, then Matthews. I think it will be 12.75-13.75.

I think what I do is walk in at 13.5x7 for Marner. Lead with that. If he jumps at it? I'm happy. If he's hestitant but interested, I sit and talk turkey. If he immediately jumps to 15x7.. He can go somewhere else.

I could be convinced to go 15x7 because a contract like that would then force Yzerman to mind his Ps and Qs on the third and four line and third pairing guys... I'd rather Marner and Eric Gustafsson at 15-17M total (13-15 Marner 2M Gustafsson vs 9-11M skater and then Ben Chiarot at 4.5M

 

[GMR]

Marner is good, but this team needs more grit. Not another smallish guy who won't hit anyone.

 

[datsyukfan]

Marner is good, but this team needs more grit. Not another smallish guy who won't hit anyone.

They need talented hockey players that can play. You can’t get marner and add grit

 

[USAHockey97]

If you were going to tank, the move was to let Lalonde coach out the season. We were on pace for 70 points and likely would have finished with the 3rd worst record in the league. You can't bounce back and forth between trying to win and tanking for a draft pick.

Is that not what the Wings have been doing the last three seasons? Start declining in the standings only to win some last meaningless games and take them out of a prime draft spot? Very difficult to build a cup team from picking mostly just 6-15.

It feels like the wings went all in one year, got screwed, threw their hands up and started signing mediocre vets. Crazy to think about but Chicago could win a cup before Detroit after embracing three years of purposeful tanking and drafting top 3.

Now I know superstars don’t guarantee a cup, but that is often accompanied by bad management. Good management and superstars are your best bet. Detroit doesn’t have the latter. Do they have the former?

 

[Frk It]

Is that not what the Wings have been doing the last three seasons? Start declining in the standings only to win some last meaningless games and take them out of a prime draft spot? Very difficult to build a cup team from picking mostly just 6-15.

It's also the hardest it has ever been to get a top 3 pick.

It feels like the wings went all in one year, got screwed, threw their hands up and started signing mediocre vets. Crazy to think about but Chicago could win a cup before Detroit after embracing three years of purposeful tanking and drafting top 3.

I mean the league put this system in place with the very clear intention to deincentivize tanking. It would only take me finishing last one time and getting the #4 pick to say f*** this, so I don't blame them one bit if they felt the way.

You should have more of an issue with the league's lottery system than how we navigate it, IMO.

Now I know superstars don’t guarantee a cup, but that is often accompanied by bad management. Good management and superstars are your best bet. Detroit doesn’t have the latter. Do they have the former?

There is no guaranteed path to getting a superstar. Does Chicago have a superstar? Is Bedard going to be better than Raymond? Maybe, maybe not.

Most of the teams that get the picks you are desperate for do so by a combination of incompetence/luck. It is rarely, if ever some kind of "master plan."

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I'm not talking about changing history, I'm talking about the direction the organization is headed and then doing a 180 and tank after the team has started to show clear improvement. No organization that is well run is doing what you suggest.

They aren't going to tank they will try to make it. I hope we lose outright because we probably won't get in anyway.

 

[Winger98]

It's also the hardest it has ever been to get a top 3 pick.

I mean the league put this system in place with the very clear intention to deincentivize tanking. It would only take me finishing last one time and getting the #4 pick to say f*** this, so I don't blame them one bit if they felt the way.

You should have more of an issue with the league's lottery system than how we navigate it, IMO.

There is no guaranteed path to getting a superstar. Does Chicago have a superstar? Is Bedard going to be better than Raymond? Maybe, maybe not.

Most of the teams that get the picks you are desperate for do so by a combination of incompetence/luck. It is rarely, if ever some kind of "master plan."

Yeah, for all of the "we never tanked hard enough" talk, we were among the bottom5 in the league (including a league worst) for four straight years and got zero top3 picks out of it. San Jose and Chicago are the worst teams in the league by ten points and both stand a better chance picking 3rd than in the top2.

Despite that, I think there is a real good chance that with Yzerman's first three drafts we walk away with a guy who will be seen as a top3 guy from each of those drafts. That's outstanding drafting.

 

[USAHockey97]

It's also the hardest it has ever been to get a top 3 pick.

I mean the league put this system in place with the very clear intention to deincentivize tanking. It would only take me finishing last one time and getting the #4 pick to say f*** this, so I don't blame them one bit if they felt the way.

You should have more of an issue with the league's lottery system than how we navigate it, IMO.

There is no guaranteed path to getting a superstar. Does Chicago have a superstar? Is Bedard going to be better than Raymond? Maybe, maybe not.

Most of the teams that get the picks you are desperate for do so by a combination of incompetence/luck. It is rarely, if ever some kind of "master plan."

These are good points and I absolutely agree the league’s system is bad. That said, most cup champs have a top three pick on the team. You have a better chance to try for a top pick and get one then to build a cup champion without one. So I would keep trying. What is the league going to do?

 

[USAHockey97]

Yeah, for all of the "we never tanked hard enough" talk, we were among the bottom5 in the league (including a league worst) for four straight years and got zero top3 picks out of it. San Jose and Chicago are the worst teams in the league by ten points and both stand a better chance picking 3rd than in the top2.

Despite that, I think there is a real good chance that with Yzerman's first three drafts we walk away with a guy who will be seen as a top3 guy from each of those drafts. That's outstanding drafting.

Yes, to Yzerman’s credit he may have drafted two top three picks in a redraft in Raymond and Seider. I’m really hoping they turn into superstars.

 

[Frk It]

These are good points and I absolutely agree the league’s system is bad. That said, most cup champs have a top three pick on the team. You have a better chance to try for a top pick and get one then to build a cup champion without one. So I would keep trying. What is the league going to do?

If I was the owner of a team I would push them to change the system. I think with this system you run the risk of teams being stuck at the bottom of the standings for an extended period of time (Like even longer than before.) I think they prioritized the wrong things when they re-vamped the lottery system (de-incentivizing tanking at the expense of actually helping the teams at the bottom rise out of their situation). In a league that has as much parity as the NHL, I don't think you need to be so worried about team's tanking in a particular year.

To me if you finish last you should be locked into either the 1st or 2nd pick. I believe that is how things were before. In a situation like that I think teams would view being last as something more worth their while. And honestly whether you finish last intentionally or not, you need a lot of help either way. It is not as easy to just control where your team finishes as a lot of people on here seem to think. You are dealing with a bunch of people who have their own vested interests to protect.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Is that not what the Wings have been doing the last three seasons? Start declining in the standings only to win some last meaningless games and take them out of a prime draft spot? Very difficult to build a cup team from picking mostly just 6-15.

It feels like the wings went all in one year, got screwed, threw their hands up and started signing mediocre vets. Crazy to think about but Chicago could win a cup before Detroit after embracing three years of purposeful tanking and drafting top 3.

Now I know superstars don’t guarantee a cup, but that is often accompanied by bad management. Good management and superstars are your best bet. Detroit doesn’t have the latter. Do they have the former?

The team had shown an improvement in every single season from a point total and percentage of total points for 5 straight years.

Given the way the team collapsed at the end of last year, Lalonde should have had a much shorter leash at the start of this season, and I wanted him gone after the first month of the season:

After 10 games, the team was pacing at 0.9 points per game or 74 points for the season. This followed up a dreadful end to 2023-24 where the team averaged 0.86 points per game over the final 22 games, relying on three straight OT/SO wins to make it look better than what the team truly looked like since March 1, 2024.

Take out those final 3 games which were OT/SO wins, as most teams had their season wrapped by that point, and the Wings averaged 0.68 points per game from March 2, 2024 - April 11, 2024.

So if you want to be critical of Yzerman, his delay in removing Lalonde this season is your best criticism IMO.

So with all that out of the way, no the Red Wings have not been trying to fail for the past three seasons. They have shown improvement every season until this one. The reason this one will be a step back is because Yzerman let Lalonde twist for way too long. If he makes the move around November 1st the team is most likely firmly in the playoff picture. When Yzerman finally made the right decision and fired Lalonde, he made it clear the team was not living up to his expectations. If his expectations were to fail he would have kept Lalonde around until the end of the season.

 

[Winger98]

If we want to make the draft a bigger help to teams on the bottom, I think the best way is to make 20 the minimum age to be drafted. It removes a big chunk of guess work in how guys will develop, and it will mean more kids are way more physically mature when they are drafted, meaning they are more likely to be able to step right in and help.

 

[13to40]

I think i rather tank at this point. Try to secure the best draft position.Call up Danielson, Wallinder and Cossa for experience.

This team is no longer in “tank mode”.

The goal is to make the playoffs. Whether they fall short or not is still TBD.

If the team is competing until the last day of the season again, it isn’t a complete horror story of a season. It just means the team hasn’t regressed and is at par to last season.

Obviously a playoff birth would be a huge success and despite the recent struggles, the team is still in the midst of the race for the final wild card spot.

 

[DanielMarois]

The team had shown an improvement in every single season from a point total and percentage of total points for 5 straight years.

View attachment 1001321

Given the way the team collapsed at the end of last year, Lalonde should have had a much shorter leash at the start of this season, and I wanted him gone after the first month of the season:

View attachment 1001322

After 10 games, the team was pacing at 0.9 points per game or 74 points for the season. This followed up a dreadful end to 2023-24 where the team averaged 0.86 points per game over the final 22 games, relying on three straight OT/SO wins to make it look better than what the team truly looked like since March 1, 2024.

Take out those final 3 games which were OT/SO wins, as most teams had their season wrapped by that point, and the Wings averaged 0.68 points per game from March 2, 2024 - April 11, 2024.

So if you want to be critical of Yzerman, his delay in removing Lalonde this season is your best criticism IMO.

So with all that out of the way, no the Red Wings have not been trying to fail for the past three seasons. They have shown improvement every season until this one. The reason this one will be a step back is because Yzerman let Lalonde twist for way too long. If he makes the move around November 1st the team is most likely firmly in the playoff picture. When Yzerman finally made the right decision and fired Lalonde, he made it clear the team was not living up to his expectations. If his expectations were to fail he would have kept Lalonde around until the end of the season.

Or, like many teams, they had a new coach bump and then went right back to what they actually are.

 

[lidstromiscool]

This team is no longer in “tank mode”.

The goal is to make the playoffs. Whether they fall short or not is still TBD.

If the team is competing until the last day of the season again, it isn’t a complete horror story of a season. It just means the team hasn’t regressed and is at par to last season.

Obviously a playoff birth would be a huge success and despite the recent struggles, the team is still in the midst of the race for the final wild card spot.

The team has already regressed since last season. Drafting 10-14th is the definition of a complete horror story of a season. Literally could not be in a worse spot, which is why this season is such a failure, another season in purgatory with no end in sight

 

[13to40]

The team has already regressed since last season. Drafting 10-14th is the definition of a complete horror story of a season. Literally could not be in a worse spot, which is why this season is such a failure, another season in purgatory with no end in sight

So the development of Albert Johansson and Simon Edvinsson don’t merit any value?

Lucas Raymond being a PPG player…

Marco Kasper graduating from the AHL to the NHL sooner than most expected.

Elmer Soderblom making the team and looking pretty damn good most nights along side competent linemates.

I won’t get into the prospects playing overseas or in the AHL….

You’re being impatient and close minded. This is a developing team. The primary importance is having the future core develop.

The team is still in the playoff hunt. It’s important for the young players on the roster now to compete until the last day of the season with playoff aspirations.

That will help their development curve the most…. And ultimately yes making the playoffs.

But remember this team isn’t about the Vlad Tarasenkos or Ben Chiarots. It’s about the kids taking the next step personally and as a collective group.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Or, like many teams, they had a new coach bump and then went right back to what they actually are.

Not sure this is what's happening with McLellan. He's had success with San Jose, Edmonton and the Kings. Now obviously it didn't work out long term, but he's gotten teams where we want the DRW to be. We've got a young core while Boston just gets started with their rebuild. Toronto is looking like they are in pretty bad shape right now. Florida and Tampa are likely nearing the end of their runs as they rely heavily on guys in their 30s.

I am interested in seeing how the final games of the season play out because the DRW are facing a lot of quality teams. As I've said before, if Yzerman had moved on from Lalonde somewhere around Nov 1st the team would be much better positioned for making the playoffs. Nothing to be done about that at this point.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Timestamped for those who never watched.